Trial Thread 4/26/2012

[otto]

TLM Assault Charge case...

Convicted killer Terri-Lynne McClintic will go to trial on charges of assault causing bodily harm stemming from a fight between her and another inmate at the women’s prison in Kitchener.

http://www.therecord.com/news/local...rial-in-kitchener-after-prison-assault-charge


JMO ....she is already serving a life sentence, she will get nothing further from this, but yet, the time and money that this case will cost.....
Work hard everyone....We are paying for this!!!!!

I'm not so sure. The more convictions she receives, the better the chances that there will be an application for long term offender or dangerous offender.

 

[Flowercb]

Guy Paul Morin was the poster guy across the country for educating investigators and prosecutors regarding the pitfalls of tunnel vision. Many things changed after the problems with that prosecution came to light.

Here is information from the Guy Paul Morin inquiry:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/morin/morin_ch1.pdf

 

[nobodyzgirl]

This seems ridiculous to me??? Why wouldn't the Defense have to be prepared TODAY and ready to move forward? Does this happen often in Canadian courts?

I understand if the hour is late, that you excuse everybody and start fresh in the morning - but taking whole days off seems overly generous to me??

Salem

Defence has the option when the Crown rests to file a motion to dismiss saying the Crown has not proven their case beyond a reasonable doubt. The judge would grant him time to make that decision and to prepare the motion to be filed.

 

[Alison]

I think this needs to be mentioned IMO:

TLM while I agree she is a horrific monster (and I think he is even worse than that) is a product of our society. We as a society let her down from the day she was born. She was allowed to be adopted out to a woman who was not mother material. She was consistantly and repeatedly abused as a young child, with no real interference from the authorities; as she remained in CM's custody. She then began to get into trouble with the law. After she served her sentance whose custody was she released to? Why of course the very woman who screwed her up in the first place, CM. So people on here are right she is a monster but that is because she was set up to fail from the very first breath she took. We all have choices and she very obviously made the worst ones possible, but as a society we shoulder the blame as well. People need to open their eyes and realize that this goes on all the time and we need to protect the young to ensure that they do not suffer harm and can grow into productive members in society.
In contrast we have MR who, by all appearances had it pretty easy living with his mom, coming and going as he pleased, while everyone else footed his bills. So I feel that if anyone is trying to paint him as the "better" of the two, well IMO he is the worst of the two. At least we know how she came to be a monster. In MR's case he is the true born monster IMO.

 

[tmhco]

In response to comments about Victoria possibly being drugged, it seems to me that grown women comply with stranger when facing nothing more than a knife. The case of Dru Sjodin comes to mind. She was in a parking lot in North Dakota, was confronted by Alfonso Rodriguez, he had a knife and she went with him ... found months later in a field. If MR had a knife, I suspect that Victoria would have complied ... and since she was so young, maybe all it took was a promise that if she comply, remain quiet and still, she will be allowed to go home. I doubt that she was drugged, but she may have been hit or injured shortly after the abduction.

MR wouldn't even share his stash with TLM! I believe a young girl put in that situation with who knows what kind of threats would cooperate. JMO

 

[Macright]

Too bad Victoria wasn't afforded that "break".

yes I agree with you there but she was doomed the minute TLM,the evil self confessed murderer led her to her death...JMO

 

[maxfactor]

Probably writting letters to himself about how wonderful and great he is. *gag*
I say bring it on Derstine! Justice for Tori!!!!!

Or filling out his dance card for when he gets out.

 

[Alison]

In regards to the text messages. We can not be sure the content came from the provider. Perhaps the messages came from CM's phone. Or perhaps like a computer you can never fully wipe a phone clean unless you destroy it (ahem perhaps that is why there was "water damage" to the phone).

 

[otto]

Here is information from the Guy Paul Morin inquiry:

http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/about/pubs/morin/morin_ch1.pdf

Thanks. I followed the case and read Redrum. That was a case that was highlighted across the country in the justice community as a warning to prosecutors to be conscientious about not having tunnel vision. Tunnel vision was the problem with that prosecution. No matter what happened, the prosecution and investigators were determined to see Guy Paul Morin convicted for the murder.

 

[~n/t~]

This seems ridiculous to me??? Why wouldn't the Defense have to be prepared TODAY and ready to move forward? Does this happen often in Canadian courts?

I understand if the hour is late, that you excuse everybody and start fresh in the morning - but taking whole days off seems overly generous to me??

Salem

Paul Bernardo's trial began in May 1995 and convicted September 1995 and he was convicted of 2 counts of first degree murder.

Slow justice for the victims. It's not only ridiculous, it's an embarrassment.

 

[flipflop]

yes I agree with you there but she was doomed the minute TLM,the evil self confessed murderer led her to her death...JMO

JMO VS was doomed when she walked with TLM to MR's car, when the pair then led her to her death.

 

[~n/t~]

yes I agree with you there but she was doomed the minute TLM,the evil self confessed murderer led her to her death...JMO

TLM is not on trial here. Her accused child killer accomplice is.

 

[roseofsharon]

I think this needs to be mentioned IMO:

TLM while I agree she is a horrific monster (and I think he is even worse than that) is a product of our society. We as a society let her down from the day she was born. She was allowed to be adopted out to a woman who was not mother material. She was consistantly and repeatedly abused as a young child, with no real interference from the authorities; as she remained in CM's custody. She then began to get into trouble with the law. After she served her sentance whose custody was she released to? Why of course the very woman who screwed her up in the first place, CM. So people on here are right she is a monster but that is because she was set up to fail from the very first breath she took. We all have choices and she very obviously made the worst ones possible, but as a society we shoulder the blame as well. People need to open their eyes and realize that this goes on all the time and we need to protect the young to ensure that they do not suffer harm and can grow into productive members in society.
In contrast we have MR who, by all appearances had it pretty easy living with his mom, coming and going as he pleased, while everyone else footed his bills. So I feel that if anyone is trying to paint him as the "better" of the two, well IMO he is the worst of the two. At least we know how she came to be a monster. In MR's case he is the true born monster IMO.

Respectfully, TS was let down by the "system" because a girl like TLM was allowed to fall through the cracks. MOO

 

[otto]

MR wouldn't even share his stash with TLM! I believe a young girl put in that situation with who knows what kind of threats would cooperate. JMO

I completely agree. I don't see MR giving his dope to anyone for any reason. A terrified child would do everything she is told ... hoping for the best.

 

[~n/t~]

Once again this Judge affords the defense a "break" Hopefully, in the end, it won't matter. I'm confident the Crown has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Michael T Rafferty kidnapped, raped and murdered Victoria Elizabeth Marie Stafford and he should be locked up forever and a day.

My hope is he will be declared a "dangerous offender". It's too bad Tori's law won't come into effect before this trial is over but I'm hoping the death penalty will be reinstated in Canada and child rapists and murderers will have to pay with their lives.

You kill a child, you die.

 

[Flowercb]

@AM980_Court

• Derstine says Lanna can't say they are the same vehicle. He says they can't say for sure it is, just the same make.

@AM980_Court

• He adds there are no large differences.

Derstine is grasping at straws here. If I were a juror I would be rolling my eyes right about now. MOO

 

[otto]

Once again this Judge affords the defense a "break" Hopefully, in the end, it won't matter. I'm confident the Crown has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Michael T Rafferty kidnapped, raped and murdered Victoria Elizabeth Marie Stafford and he should be locked up forever and a day.

My hope is he will be declared a "dangerous offender". It's too bad Tori's law won't come into effect before this trial is over but I'm hoping the death penalty will be reinstated in Canada and child rapists and murderers will have to pay with their lives.

You kill a child, you die.

He is not elligible for dangerous offender status.

"Under the reformed legislation:

i.An individual will be presumed to meet the criteria for a Dangerous Offender designation when he or she gets a third conviction for a designated violent or sexual crime that is subject to a federal sentence of at least two years. A Dangerous Offender designation will not be automatic. The burden will be on the offender to explain why he or she should not be designated a dangerous offender. The judge retains discretion to refuse the application.

ii.The current onus on the Crown to prove that the Dangerous Offender sentence is appropriate in the circumstances will be removed. This codification of the principle established in the 2003 decision of the Supreme Court of Canada in R. v. Johnson is an important reform that has the support of all provincial and territorial jurisdictions.

iii.The time allowed for the filing of a psychiatric assessment will be extended to 30 days from 15 days, as well as allowing for an additional extension of 30 days. This addresses a procedural difficulty identified by all provincial and territorial jurisdictions.

iv.The court now must hear a Dangerous Offender application if it is satisfied reasonable grounds exist for such a finding. This resolves a technical issue in the current provisions that had allowed courts to refuse to hear such an application.

v.Following conviction of a third designated serious violent/sexual offence, the Crown must declare in open court whether it intends to bring a Dangerous Offender application. This will increase vigilance among provincial Crown prosecutors to pursue such applications when there are adequate grounds to do so."

http://www.canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/news-nouv/nr-cp/2006/doc_31910.html

I think it would be tragic for Canada to adhere to the "an eye for an eye" philosophy. Other than the US, there are no westernized countries that exclusively practice punishment (such as capital punishment) with criminals. Canada, fortunately, also practices rehabilitation.

 

[Heliotrope]

....Imo I think they drugged here ...my Strong OPINION ...I think that is why they bought a tea actually...robynhood

I have to disagree, but with sadness - I thought about it too but discounted it for a reason I think most of us sane people can't get our heads around:

Because these people get off on inflicting suffering - it is, IMO, why they can't go to a hooker and act it out - because they would know that the suffering wasn't real and that would spoil it.

I say most people - I wish that was true, but I can't even put my hand on my heart and say I believe that - google "atrocities" plus one of Congo Wars / Nanking / Holocaust / Rwanda, etc. There but for the grace of God...

 

[Alison]

Respectfully, TS was let down by the "system" because a girl like TLM was allowed to fall through the cracks. MOO

What happened to TS is the biggest saddest consequence of all that can happen because of a system (society) that failed.

Please do not take what I posted as an excuse for what TLM did because their is no excuse. I was contrasting the two monsters lives.

 

[otto]

What happened to TS is the biggest saddest consequence of all that can happen because of a system (society) that failed.

Please do not take what I posted as an excuse for what TLM did because their is no excuse. I was contrasting the two monsters lives.

TLM may have been abused and neglected, but she still had choices. She, alone, probably decided that MR would like her better if she helped him abduct a child for his sexual gratification. She had many opportunities to make different choices. In fact, when she first learned that MR wanted to sexually assault a child (I'm assuming they discussed it before they abducted Victoria), she could have gone to authorities. As a victim of child sexual assault, she could have taken a protective role regarding other victims. She chose not to. The system had nothing to do with those choices.

Together, MR and TLM would have continued in the same direction as Homolka and Bernardo ... IMO.