AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 5

[curiousjo]

The little girl must have been taken at 0630 -when next door neighbor was awakened and overheard men speaking quietly by Isabel window- in English, not Spanish. She did not mention hearing little girl voice or a struggle. So, does that mean Isabel knew the men or was she sedated/deceased? Why was she put to bed in day clothes, rather than PJ's.If the dogs are usually outside, then why inside that night? Was that planned? The Mom is a nurse- she left for work Saturday am. Since most RNs have to clock in, then the time of her arrival should be documented. What do the brothers remember? Isabel usually sleeps in their room, but not that night. Why? A neighbor has surveillance cameras pointing at this home. YAH! This neighbors camera should be able to solve the crime - don't ya think!?

 

[Patty G]

That's what keeps my head spinning. What does VERY early mean? Because I get up at 5 every morning so to me, early doesn't mean the same thing as it would to someone who wakes at 8 every day.

As for the LE statement, at what point would that be considered valid, and what about the other statements made by LE? I'm not being snarky, I just thought that would have been a pretty solid source and now am scratching my head. Like I am about everything in this case.


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Well, let's just say that LE has refused to say what time the mother went to work at nearly every single press conferernce they held, two or three times a day. So I am not holding my breath when under fire from Nancy that the spokesperson blerts out "it is my understanding that the mother left approximately 7:30 AM"

If someone shift is at 8:00 AM, I would think 6:30 AM would be very early based on 8:00 AM. However, based on 8:00 AM shift start, 7:30 AM is not very early.

 

[nutkin]

The little girl must have been taken at 0630 -when next door neighbor was awakened and overheard men speaking quietly by Isabel window- in English, not Spanish. She did not mention hearing little girl voice or a struggle. So, does that mean Isabel knew the men or was she sedated/deceased? Why was she put to bed in day clothes, rather than PJ's.If the dogs are usually outside, then why inside that night? Was that planned? The Mom is a nurse- she left for work Saturday am. Since most RNs have to clock in, then the time of her arrival should be documented. What do the brothers remember?

When my son was around the same age as Isabel, he really slept like a rock, especially if he had a busy day. Absolutely nothing would wake him up. There were times where he fell asleep in the floor watching TV or in a chair in the living room and since I couldn't lift him (dead weight) and my boyfriend was at work, he just had to sleep where he was all night because there was no waking him up. And when he was slightly younger, there were times he'd poop in a pull-up in his sleep. I'd change his pull-up and his clothes completely without him ever waking up or really moving a muscle.

 

[Aura]

TY! Didn't know that but it still seems like someone was sleeping in that car & my guess is that 'shade' helped to give some privacy.

that absolutely couldve been what it was for too. Just about all over town you will see cars parked with the shades in them to protect the dash/interior. But i see where your going with this.

 

[amysmom]

I hope the neighbor girl stays SAFE cos I fear the perp/s (IF they exist) may think she's not telling all she knows or more imp what she saw & may want to silence her.

eta..I mean on NG's show vs to LE but really what diff would it make IF she can truly identify them OR just if they think she can..I'm seriously worried about her & wonder why she decided to spill so much.

 

[nutkin]

There were also times at around age 6 where my son would be carried to the toilet before I would go to bed to ensure he didn't wet the bed during the night. It was an extremely rare occasion that he'd wake up. I always thought it was strange that someone could pee on the toilet and never wake up, but that's the way my son is.

 

[Aura]

Yeah when I was walking from the parking area that I parked in next to the pool building at the park, I seen a few homeless looking people wondering around looking in trash cans, A couple of teenage looking people in a car just sitting in the parking lot, Two young looking teenage kids laying on top of each other in the grass. I was fairly nervous to be honest.

Freedom Park is pretty shady area sometimes... It is known as a place for crackheads. The area around it is also not a good area.

 

[mahoolin]

The little girl must have been taken at 0630 -when next door neighbor was awakened and overheard men speaking quietly by Isabel window- in English, not Spanish. She did not mention hearing little girl voice or a struggle. So, does that mean Isabel knew the men or was she sedated/deceased? Why was she put to bed in day clothes, rather than PJ's.If the dogs are usually outside, then why inside that night? Was that planned? The Mom is a nurse- she left for work Saturday am. Since most RNs have to clock in, then the time of her arrival should be documented. What do the brothers remember?

BBM
I've known parents who have, and I think a lot of parents let their kids fall into bed in what they have on - especially when it's late and hectic occasionally. I don't read a whole lot into that. When I was small, it would have been unheard of - but nowadays - almost anything goes. I'm sure parents would rather keep the peace and just let a little grumpy, sleepy child go on to bed.

I haven't seen any reporting on the brothers at all. :waitasec:

 

[Madilu]

The no eye contact at all when he was speaking. My husband thinks that might be a sign of guilt.

Honestly, I don't understand how anyone can complain about their eye contact at that presser. There were dozens of cameras and people surrounding them. Dozens. How would anyone possibly know where to look? He made fleeting eye contact with dozens of people. I expect no more at all.

As a productive exercise, since so many are discussing body language between the pair of them, etc. as an indication of either guilt or innocence, seems it might be helpful to go back and look at peeps like the Smarts and others first presser to see what their marital presentation was the first time, etc.

Then take a look at the first pressers from those that were found to be guilty ultimately. Review it. Analyze it. Learn from it. It would be a neat exercise for growth in websleuthing...IMO of course...I only became interested in these cases since Kyron went missing here locally. If I had some references or ideas, I will do what I am proposing others do.

 

[thefragile7393]

BBM
I've known parents who have, and I think a lot of parents let their kids fall into bed in what they have on - especially when it's late and hectic occasionally. I don't read a whole lot into that. When I was small, it would have been unheard of - but nowadays - almost anything goes. I'm sure parents would rather keep the peace and just let a little grumpy, sleepy child go on to bed.

I haven't seen any reporting on the brothers at all. :waitasec:

Quite honestly my kids are asleep in the clothes they will wear for the next day. Makes life easier since I get off work late and have to be at work very early.

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[katydid23]

The Uncle and Isa's mother do not have the same last night if they are brother and sister. The Uncle's last name begins with M and Isa's mother's maiden name begins with S.

I read the mother's maiden name either in this thread or the last thread.

But the uncle does not have the same last name as the fathers family either. So just how is this an uncle? Could he be a brother-in-law, newly divorced? Or a step brother of the mom's?

 

[TGIRecovered]

I haven't seen anyone mention the possibility that whoever was talking outside the window at 6:30 AM could have been discussing how to stage an abduction by removing the window screen.

It makes no sense to wait until the sun comes up and people are getting ready for work to kidnap a child through a window. The neighbor heard dogs barking and men's voices but not a peep from a little girl.

MOO

If something happened to Isabella earlier in the night, it would make sense to wait for it to get light outside to go out and remove a window screen from the outside if you weren't concrened about other occupants of the home seeing you.

 

[nutkin]

But the uncle does not have the same last name as the fathers family either. So just how is this an uncle? Could he be a brother-in-law, newly divorced? Or a step brother of the mom's?

Maybe he is just a really close family friend that they call an uncle?

 

[FrayedKnot]

Well, let's just say that LE has refused to say what time the mother went to work at nearly every single press conferernce they held, two or three times a day. So I am not holding my breath when under fire from Nancy that the spokesperson blerts out "it is my understanding that the mother left approximately 7:30 AM"

If someone shift is at 8:00 AM, I would think 6:30 AM would be very early based on 8:00 AM. However, based on 8:00 AM shift start, 7:30 AM is not very early.

Okay, so her shift began at 8. That helps!

So very early wouldn't be leaving home at 7:30 in most anyone's estimation, and would have her arriving at work at 7:45, again not what anyone would call very early.

So she must have left WAY earlier than that.

I'm sorry, I missed the info about when her shift began! Thanks! Makes more sense now!


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[PlainJaneDoe]

I think people have to remember that speaking in front of cameras at a press conference, talking about your missing daughter, just days after she disappears would make anyone uncomfortable. We usually don't have anything to compare these families behavior to since we get to know them after tragedy strikes. So it is a little unfair to try and compare with no "clean" samples. Emotional distress and shock plays a lot into body language and behavior.

I forgot to put this with my earlier post...just jumping off yours cuz it reminded me. I personally don't give much weight to actually seeing or not seeing tears. When I first separated from my ex, I cried a lot, didn't eat or sleep much, and put a lot of pressure on myself at work to be productive and to keep my chin up. There were a couple times I remember clearly going on a crying jag and for whatever reason my eyes were dry. Dunno if it was just from being worn out or something, but jmo it had nothing to do with the intensity of my emotions. So, again jmo, that kind of changed how I look at things...keeping in mind that sometimes people ARE dry-eyed because they're fake crying.

 

[CarrieBean]

BBM
I've known parents who have, and I think a lot of parents let their kids fall into bed in what they have on - especially when it's late and hectic occasionally. I don't read a whole lot into that. When I was small, it would have been unheard of - but nowadays - almost anything goes. I'm sure parents would rather keep the peace and just let a little grumpy, sleepy child go on to bed.

I haven't seen any reporting on the brothers at all. :waitasec:

I can attest to that. When my son was little, he took a long tantrum while we were out. He fell asleep just before we got home, so I carried him in and laid him on the floor...in his snow suit. Unzipped his jacket and that's where he had his nap.

 

[Melanie]

Honestly, I don't understand how anyone can complain about their eye contact at that presser. There were dozens of cameras and people surrounding them. Dozens. How would anyone possibly know where to look? He made fleeting eye contact with dozens of people. I expect no more at all.

As a productive exercise, since so many are discussing body language between the pair of them, etc. as an indication of either guilt or innocence, seems it might be helpful to go back and look at peeps like the Smarts and others first presser to see what their marital presentation was the first time, etc.

Then take a look at the first pressers from those that were found to be guilty ultimately. Review it. Analyze it. Learn from it. It would be a neat exercise for growth in websleuthing...IMO of course...I only became interested in these cases since Kyron went missing here locally. If I had some references or ideas, I will do what I am proposing others do.

I have seen a lot of pressers in my day (we all have), and I didn't get a single hinky feeling watching the parents. In comparison, when I think about watching D'andra Lane, David Westerfield, or Scott Peterson - woo hoo (hinky meter off the charts).

What I saw were two very frightened parents. I hope and pray I'm right, but I just don't see them as being the perps at all.

Just my opinion.

Mel

 

[nutkin]

Okay, so her shift began at 8. That helps!

So very early wouldn't be leaving home at 7:30 in most anyone's estimation, and would have her arriving at work at 7:45, again not what anyone would call very early.

So she must have left WAY earlier than that.

I'm sorry, I missed the info about when her shift began! Thanks! Makes more sense now!


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And if she left really early and that was not a common thing for her, was she trying to create an alibi?

 

[Madilu]

PS. I remember making an introductions at a podium (no media) to a huge crowd of neurosurgeons at a conference once...and I was so dang nervous, afterwards I had no idea what I even said, or who I looked at. Meant nothing, except that I was nervous an inexperienced. And I'll bet they were nervous and inexperienced in standing up in front of the whole nation on camera talking about their missing daughter. My God. And when I think about peeps like Billie Jean Dun and how she displayed herself all over NG for weeks ... THAT made me sick. Not this family. JMHO naturally.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Honestly, I don't understand how anyone can complain about their eye contact at that presser. There were dozens of cameras and people surrounding them. Dozens. How would anyone possibly know where to look? He made fleeting eye contact with dozens of people. I expect no more at all.

As a productive exercise, since so many are discussing body language between the pair of them, etc. as an indication of either guilt or innocence, seems it might be helpful to go back and look at peeps like the Smarts and others first presser to see what their marital presentation was the first time, etc.

Then take a look at the first pressers from those that were found to be guilty ultimately. Review it. Analyze it. Learn from it. It would be a neat exercise for growth in websleuthing...IMO of course...I only became interested in these cases since Kyron went missing here locally. If I had some references or ideas, I will do what I am proposing others do.

What I don't get is police downsized and so far i haven't seen the community searching such as groups searching (or have they and are they still)? Police took stuff from family car. I was on the fence but now leaning towards someone in the family. Just not sure who yet. JMO