AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - # 5

[Patty G]

Somebody posted upthread that they are NOT the uncles parents. They are the husbands parents and the uncle is the wife's brother.

So, imo, the uncle lived with the family at the time this happened. JMO

The Uncle and Isa's mother do not have the same last night if they are brother and sister. The Uncle's last name begins with M and Isa's mother's maiden name begins with S.

I read the mother's maiden name either in this thread or the last thread.

 

[nutkin]

I find the father's emotions more believable than the mother's. Maybe he didn't want to comfort her because he believes she is at fault. Either directly or because she didn't check on her before leaving that morning.

 

[amysmom]

Alot of broken down cars here will have the shades in the windows since the sun will beam down on the interior and dash, it ruins it pretty quickly.

TY! Didn't know that but it still seems like someone was sleeping in that car & my guess is that 'shade' helped to give some privacy.

 

[Thinkzerz]

After listening to the next-door-neighbor speak, it sure sounds like Isabel was abducted at approximately 6:30 am and not in the middle of the night.

She said the males were speaking in English but she couldn't make out what they said because they kept their voices low.

She said no one uses the walkway between the two houses but her so it couldn't have been the garbage men. I think if the men were passing through the houses, she wouldn't have heard them talking outside her window.

No ladder required to sneak into Isabel's room.

If the abduction occurred in the middle of the night, the dogs would have woken her up earlier. She said her bedroom window is very thin.

She saw no signs of a struggle in Isabel's room; the curtain was pulled over to one-side and the screen was off. Normally Isa's window is closed.

Isabel's mother was likely already up and getting ready for work when her daughter was taken. :what:

There are psychics who communicate with animals and because the Celis's dogs were in the yard and saw the men, I think it would be worthwhile calling one for help especially if Isabel isn't found soon.

MO is the parents each took a polygraph and passed.

JMO

So the garbage men don't go through that alleyway?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

A lot of people have issues when public speaking and can't look out at the people.

True. But not someone who is accustomed to being on stage and performing in front of an audience on a regular basis. :moo:

 

[Patty G]

Ok now I am more confuseder. I thought we had a confirmation that mom left at 7:30 for her shift. If that's right, then I can see being up at 6:30 to shower and dress.


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We haven't confirmed that the mother left at 7:30 AM. All we have is what the LE spokesperson who stated "it was her understanding that she left for work at approximately 7:30 in the morning. " and that is not good enough.

Because we have the VP at the Center stated Isa's mother was at work VERY early that morning.

My earlier post: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #5

 

[Patty G]

True. But not someone who is accustomed to being on stage and performing in front of an audience on a regular basis. :moo:

Oops! :blushing:

 

[Lava]

I think people have to remember that speaking in front of cameras at a press conference, talking about your missing daughter, just days after she disappears would make anyone uncomfortable. We usually don't have anything to compare these families behavior to since we get to know them after tragedy strikes. So it is a little unfair to try and compare with no "clean" samples. Emotional distress and shock plays a lot into body language and behavior.

 

[Thinkzerz]

True. But not someone who is accustomed to being on stage and performing in front of an audience on a regular basis. :moo:

Performing in front of an audience?

 

[Patty G]

So the garbage men don't go through that alleyway?

The garbage men go through the alley way, HOWEVER, the neighbor heard the men in the "breezeway" between the neighbors house and the Celis' house.

Like the pathway between your neighbor to each side of you.

 

[Thinkzerz]

I find the father's emotions more believable than the mother's. Maybe he didn't want to comfort her because he believes she is at fault. Either directly or because she didn't check on her before leaving that morning.

Good point.

 

[nutkin]

You know, I do see how details can become confused very easily in a traumatic situation.

On Easter night, a truck was pulled onto the side of the road right by my house playing their music extremely loudly. The kids were trying to sleep as it was late and they had school the next day. My boyfriend went outside and asked them to turn their music down because the kids were sleeping. The guys in the truck started yelling at him to call the police if he didn't like it. Minutes later, they drove away and shot at him three times. Luckily, he wasn't hit or anything and there was no damage to our house. My first thought was to wake my kids and move them to the back bedroom just in case the people in the truck came back.

Now, I did hear the gun shots and I did see the truck drive away. But, later when asked to fill out a police report I said it was an old white truck, when it was really a brand new silver truck. I also could not remember what time it was, could only give a time frame within an hour and I only knew that because of the TV show that was on at the time.

In a traumatic situation, you don't remember details easily even when you really want to.

 

[nursebeeme]

Performing in front of an audience?

he is an actor/operatic singer

 

[mahoolin]

Thank you so much for your earlier post awhile DH and I were out to dinner. Your thoughts echo mine, and my hinky meter nearly exploded during the parents' presser yesterday - mostly with regard to Mr. Celis. In the words of Hattie McDaniel as Mammy in Gone With the Wind: "It ain't fittin', it ain't fittin'. It just ain't fittin'." :moo:

..and Mammie was the wisest of all of them :yesss:
as was my grandmother - if she was alive, this case would be solved. She could see through anything and get straight to the point. IMO The world needs more of those types these days -everyone's too busy being politically correct to have an opinion..... (sorry OT)

Hope dinner was good!

 

[FrayedKnot]

We haven't confirmed that the mother left at 7:30 AM. All we have is what the LE spokesperson who stated "it was her understanding that she left for work at approximately 7:30 in the morning. " and that is not good enough.

Because we have the VP at the Center stated Isa's mother was at work VERY early that morning.

My earlier post: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #5

That's what keeps my head spinning. What does VERY early mean? Because I get up at 5 every morning so to me, early doesn't mean the same thing as it would to someone who wakes at 8 every day.

As for the LE statement, at what point would that be considered valid, and what about the other statements made by LE? I'm not being snarky, I just thought that would have been a pretty solid source and now am scratching my head. Like I am about everything in this case.


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[Madilu]

First, I wonder if maybe a reason that some people get a strong sense that the parents feel guilty or have an idea of what happened to Isa, while others feel just as strongly that they're innocent, is because both are true. Eg., and this is completely imaginary, maybe they suspect that a sports coach took her, because in hindsight they remember instances where he was paying her too much or the wrong kind of attention. They're the ones who signed her up for the team, so they feel guilty about placing her in danger by allowing this person into her life. ...but on the other hand, they've known Coach a really long time, and he's a good guy, etc., so they have doubts and maybe feel guilty for suspecting anything about him. And in this situation, they would kinda know, but not really know, what happened.

Second, about the 6:30 dogs barking/voices heard...usually when I hear these things at 6:30, I think, "Oh dear god, is it morning already?!" and try to fall back asleep. I wouldn't assume anything was amiss. I also have had the experience of being half asleep/half awake and not being 100% sure what is real and what is a dream re: noises. I often experience lucid dreams (ie I know when I'm dreaming and can somewhat control it) but Ive noticed that when I'm semi-conscious because a noise woke me, in hindsight it is hard for me to say what was in the dream and what actually happened, and I'm very suggestible about it. Not saying this is what happened with the neighbor. I just can see myself being convinced that something my semi-conscious brain processed is much more significant than it really was if I later learned that something might've happened around that time.

I really appreciate this post. It is true that two things can be true at the same time -displays of GUILT -not guilt for doing anything wrong, but guilt for not preventing it, not paying attention when dogs barked that morning, guilt over not protecting her -and guilt for scores of people, mostly strangers, working on their behalf to find their daughter. Fear. Etc., etc.

IRT what you say about early morning and half-sleep...I get that. And we don't know if that neighbor was up late or partying or whatever (not saying she was, but it was Friday night, and she is young...i.e. not the elderly woman next door) -she may have been like, "WTH, freakin dogs!" in her mind -and back to sleep. She is not going to go on camera and tell everything like that. And, I can imagine that she and her friends are "like" freaking out..."OMG that must have been the kidnapper! OMG!" And she's sticking to her story, you know...I might very well be the same way. Because she doesn't know for sure...

 

[dimples37398]

Thx. That is a higher crime area, 29th and Swan.

Yeah when I was walking from the parking area that I parked in next to the pool building at the park, I seen a few homeless looking people wondering around looking in trash cans, A couple of teenage looking people in a car just sitting in the parking lot, Two young looking teenage kids laying on top of each other in the grass. I was fairly nervous to be honest.

 

[Madilu]

Lakeside park. Is this where Isabel played baseball?

No, it is evidently Freedom Park where the little league plays, to the west some miles...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Performing in front of an audience?

Sergio Celis, Isabel's father, sings in a local opera company. I haven't done opera but have danced/sang in theatre productions in which chorus members had to "act" while they are on stage during a particular scene. DH and I have season tickets for Michigan Opera Theatre performances during which chorus members "act" while on stage when they are not necessarily singing the libretto.

 

[Madilu]

I saw that, which is why I was wondering. Were they at a game the night before? Was it one of the boys games? Thought I read that somewhere.

Good point. You comment made me think that even tho the home field may be Freedom Park, they may have played the night before at Lakeside. I'm slow like that...