17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #36

[francie]

Source: Zimmerman says Trayvon circled his SUV, frightened him

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-05-03/news/os-trayvon-martin-circles-george-zimmerman-20120503_1_special-prosecutor-angela-corey-source-police-department


Why didn't George call 911 instead of non-emergency if he was frightened? And why not tell the dispatcher what was happening? Because it didn't happen?

:moo:

 

[Phoenixfla]

I don't know that that distinction can be made. I mean, in a fight, it's not like a video game where you can pause the action, think about what's going to happen next, and then decide what to do next. Plus, he had a gun. There was no WAY Trayvon had a chance of killing GZ. Gun beats fists anytime. And GZ was a former bouncer, so he knows how to fight. I'm not buying that a former bouncer let some kid beat on him and then GZ got so scared he had to shoot and kill the kid. That just doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't understand how you can say that? People die in fights everyday. I believe it was possible that things could have ended up differently with GZ dead.

 

[Karmady]

Oh, Thank You. I hope it's a good one.

It must be a good one, otherwise I'm thinking there would be more msm fodder about her than there is. jmo

 

[Allusonz]

Oh, the experts, not true-ONE said it WAS Trayvon and one said it WASN'T GZ. As I posted before about this:

BBM

Do you have a link for this?

ETA I have seen alot said with respect to this case but this is one thing I have not seen

 

[KateNY]

While your friend was in the hospital and tweeting, did she say she was in the hospital?
Or did she say she was at the movies with her parents?

LOL ...thanks, the movies ( I did say I forgot the 'jist' of it)

then again..maybe she didn't want to say where she was, to her friends?

just dont know, wonder if we ever will

 

[beach]

Why is it so hard to believe that GZ wanted to show the cops that he could do there job better.

Like I said before, if LE had walked up on a physical altercation they would not have shot whoever was on top at that moment. If they were going to use deadly force it would have been on the guy with the gun. But, even then, they probably would have ordered GZ to drop the gun.

That's not hard for me to believe. I'll be the first one to say that Trayvon Martin should not be dead today.

I think Zimmerman should have returned to his car when the dispatcher told him, "we don't need you to do that".

That said, I can't jump to assumptions about what REALLY happened after that. I need more evidence - Trayvon's autopsy report, for one. If Trayvon had been shot in the back, my mind would probably be made up and it would take a LOT to sway me otherwise. I want to hear some SWORN witness testimonies. I want to compare the stories v. what the physical evidence tells us.

I understand the passionate feelings on both sides. For me, I know that no matter what - right or wrong - good law vs. bad law - the extremely liberal FL SYG laws are still the big issue here.

 

[AngelWings444]

No one stepped up to challenge her, wow.

My selfish side wants to see a trial, I want it all to come out. I don't know how I feel about a plea bargain.

So, I guess the theory that she charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder to get re-elected is out the window. She has already been re-elected.

I said from the beginning...Zimmerman will take a plea. JMO

 

[tehcloser]

That's not hard for me to believe. I'll be the first one to say that Trayvon Martin should not be dead today.

I think Zimmerman should have returned to his car when the dispatcher told him, "we don't need you to do that".

That said, I can't jump to assumptions about what REALLY happened after that. I need more evidence - Trayvon's autopsy report, for one. If Trayvon had been shot in the back, my mind would probably be made up and it would take a LOT to sway me otherwise. I want to hear some SWORN witness testimonies. I want to compare the stories v. what the physical evidence tells us.

I understand the passionate feelings on both sides. For me, I know that no matter what - right or wrong - good law vs. bad law - the extremely liberal FL SYG laws are still the big issue here.

See this is why I had beer for supper.......it makes it easier to deal with all this mess. Ya want one? :floorlaugh:

 

[Just K]

FTR, the dispatcher did NOT tell GZ to stop, she asked if he was following, then said they didn't need him to do that. NOT an "order" to stop. The dispatcher then ALSO continued to pump GZ for information as he was trying to find TM. Not exactly a sign that they WANTED him to stop.

BTW, just for accuracy, that dispatcher (Non-Emergency) that GZ spoke to was a man.

 

[mikeysmommom]

So, I guess the theory that she charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder to get re-elected is out the window. She has already been re-elected.

I said from the beginning...Zimmerman will take a plea. JMO

She was re elected after he was charged IMO She got the votes she was after.

 

[Phoenixfla]

BBM... We do know he was a bouncer and I do know bouncers are known for working out with weights but do we know he worked out to be a fact? Since the beginning I have wondered IF he worked out on a regular basis and was on steroids or perhaps had taken steroids in the past?JMHO

If he was taking steroids I think he should request a refund.

 

[Karmady]

So, I guess the theory that she charged Zimmerman with 2nd degree murder to get re-elected is out the window. She has already been re-elected.

I said from the beginning...Zimmerman will take a plea. JMO

She charged him before she was unchallenged. Plus, idk that she knew she would be unchallenged prior to the charge.

I said from the beginning that George will be OFFERED a plea. And that's because Corey deliberately overcharged the case for her own political motives.

 

[beach]

See this is why I had beer for supper.......it makes it easier to deal with all this mess. Ya want one? :floorlaugh:

teh, don't tease me by offering me just one! :floorlaugh:

 

[Karmady]

If he was taking steroids I think he should request a refund.

lol, seriously.

 

[beach]

If he was taking steroids I think he should request a refund.

:lol:

 

[Boytwnmom]

and I do think it's pretty horrible to repeat something that is clearly contrary to the ACTUAL quotes I furnished without some pretty strong evidence that he actually said it and it's not just some third hand story like from the old police chief or something who has said other untrue things.

So, he WAS a bouncer-Trayvon was not and had no training for fighting that I'm aware of. one doesn't just know how to fight. I don't, my teenage boys don't. GZ clearly had repeated physical encounters that we KNOW of and who knows what else? Trayvon was a 13/14 yr old football player-you really think that's relevant-he played football with other little kids his own age...so did my kids, they still don't know how to fight. Football and being a bouncer and someone who attacked an ATF agent and his "ex-how" are rather different things IMO.

Witness statements have not been released-I will wait for the official ones and eye witness testimony is inherently unreliable. I choose to rely on common sense and expert testimony which has already proven to me that it was Trayvon screaming for his life-I find that the most important and relevant evidence. Plus, GZ was the actor in all this. He caused every aspect of it to occur and I have no doubt he put his hands on Trayvon first to prevent him from getting away like the other a%^holes did. Trayvon didn't know GZ existed and had no reason to do anything to him until GZ attempted to detain him.

Yes, one expert said it WAS Trayvon and one said it WASN'T George. There's a whole article about it at the link I provided:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331,0,250481.story?page=2

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

The first expert used biometric analysis to exclude GZ from being the person screaming:

Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call.

The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago....

Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult...

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

"As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman,"

The other expert uses his ears:

Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings.

He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion.

"I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming."

I've posted this before, but I don't have it in quotes, I have it in video form from a respected *ahem* source , Matt Guttman, who has it from a reliable source, IMO, SPD. It's up to the listener to decide whether or not they made it all up for whatever reason. I know ABC is not biased. JMO *** hold on for the video, the one I posted has bad pics of TM ***
He was supposedly a "bouncer" when he was 21, 7 years ago. TM was a football player 2 years ago. Bouncers bounce, football players run, IMO.

I had heard the little boy with the dog was coaxed by LE, but he says the guy on the ground by himself, had on a red shirt, and he said it without LE around. I have the video for that as well and I'd be happy to provide it.

I choose to believe he stopped following him because that is what the evidence shows me, we see it differently.

One said it was Trayvon? Do you have a link for that? I looked before I wrote this post, but couldn't locate it. I'd be interested to know how he came to that conclusion without anything relative to compare it to. TIA

If the FBI's results had said it was Trayvon, he would certainly gain insight into who was screaming. If they said their findings were inconclusive, it would give him no insight. JMO

 

[AngelWings444]

She was re elected after he was charged IMO She got the votes she was after.

It's pretty tough to lose when nobody challenges you. :floorlaugh:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/20/2759374/fla-prosecutor-in-martin-case.html

 

[vlpate]

Unless she is unable to testify. I don't think she will ever take the stand.

From the way I read the probable cause document, she gave her interview over the phone and in a sworn statement. I agree, I doubt she will ever be allowed to take the stand.

JMO

 

[suzihawk]

Suzi, as much as we obviously disagree on most things, I will give you props for this post. If that happened, and George took physical control of Trayvon (and that could certainly be the case), than I might change my mind. If we can confirm that George was not on the bottom of the altercation and/or that Trayvon believed that he was in fear for his life when the physical altercation started, I'm open to that.

My main protest here has been the initial media spin that convicted George before he had even been charged, and what I perceive to be an inexplicable desire to see George convicted of murder just because the dead person is a black teenager. If he attacked and killed Trayvon, then he's all guilty to me.

I blame the media frenzy on the SPD fuster cluck. Not on Crump, AS or JJ or anyone else. If they had done their due diligence, there wouldn't have been the need for the massive call to justice and the media (or us) wouldn't be talking about it today. I believe the SPD is racist and corrupt up to their collective red necks and they thought the shooting of a black kid was no biggie and would primarily go unnoticed and unchallenged. Although I'm not convinced that Zimmerman's father has/had any real pull, I think the SPD weighed the dead black kid against the son of a magistrate judge, who was a known community member as opposed to Trayvon, and it was a no brainer to them not to charge Zimmerman. When the media got involved people were good and pizzed.

I believe that Trayvon was targeted by Zimmerman because he was a young black man. Whether that's because of the previous robberies or because he's a racist, or he had some sort of need to be a hero or all of the above, (which I personally believe) remains to be seen.

My bottom line is I think Trayvon was defending himself against Zimmerman when he was shot.

 

[Karmady]

I blame the media frenzy on the SPD fuster cluck. Not on Crump, AS or JJ or anyone else. If they had done their due diligence there wouldn't have been the need for the massive call to justice and the media (or us) wouldn't be talking about today. I believe the SPD is racist and corrupt up to their collective red neck and they thought the shooting of a black kid was no biggie and would primarily go unnoticed and unchallenged. Although I'm not convinced that Zimmerman's father has/had any real pull, I think the SPD weighed the dead black kid against the son of a magistrate judge, who was a known community member as opposed to Trayvon, and it was a no brainer to them not to charge Zimmerman. When the media got involved people were good and pizzed.

I believe that Trayvon was targeted by Zimmerman because he was a young black man. Whether that's because of the previous robberies or because he's a racist, or he had some sort of need to be a hero or all of the above, (which I personally believe) remains to be seen.

My bottom line is I think Trayvon was defending himself against Zimmerman when he was shot.

okay, then never mind. If you think that Trayvon was targeted for racial reasons, we will never agree. That's okay with me. Peace. And I mean that sincerely