AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #10

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Dr. Know? said:
My apologies. The mom's brother said he was called at work then went to Isa's house on JVM today if that helps. oops...
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It's okay. Mom's brother is NOT the UNCLE/Cousin that some are pinging on. That was my point. Thanks for "getting" it. :seeya: You are an honest and good poster. JMO
 
pieper4 said:
Someone's "past time pleasures" list snowboarding, fishing, and 4-wheeling. Not saying it means much, but that's what we (locals) do on/near Mt. Lemmon... or in this area in general.

As you know, the 3-girls' story rather fell off the planet quite quickly. Not sure what to make of that, though...
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Oh carp me too with the "past time pleasures", but I live in NM. Maybe I should get an attorney?
 
Back to Isobel...I hope the local media asks specific questions of the parents tomorrow and that they parents at least say they can't talk about certain things, if that is true.

The way LE has been harping on the family to speak out, it sure did not make it sound like they have limitations on what they can say...but who knows. Also maybe LE is interested to see which questions they would claim to be unable to answer, and see if they blame it on the investigation, when in fact that may not be true?

Just wondering...I still don't think the parents did anything but I think they know or suspect someone, perhaps...
 
Ransom said:
It's okay. Mom's brother is NOT the UNCLE/Cousin that some are pinging on. That was my point. Thanks for "getting" it. :seeya: You are an honest and good poster. JMO
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Thanks Ransom. This hits home. 4 little girls have been hurt or taken by the most horrid boogey man or men. I want them found now!

We in Tucson appreciate everyone posting. Thank you. Thanks locals too! Smart people.
 
Oh, last I knew from a few years ago, you could stay on Mt. Lemmon for 14 days at a camp site but not in the winter time. Closes in Oct. I forget when it reopens at the campsites, it's been a while. Just a thought for where a person could be not noticed readily, there's plenty of places to hide here though. Heats here, that will limit some areas hopefully.
 
Dr. Know? said:
Oh, last I knew from a few years ago, you could stay on Mt. Lemmon for 14 days at a camp site but not in the winter time. Closes in Oct. I forget when it reopens at the campsites, it's been a while. Just a thought for where a person could be not noticed readily, there's plenty of places to hide here though. Heats here, that will limit some areas hopefully.
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I don't know the exact dates for camping season either, but I know some lower elevation campgrounds close in May/June (Molina Basin)... while those higher up don't open fully til later in the Spring. But there are SOOooo many remote areas up there (like Peppersauce and the "back" side into Oro Valley) that don't get much by way of use/monitoring by the Parkies. It's a vast wilderness up there. I know folks who back country camp without a permit. Just on the cheap. LOL.
 
pieper4 said:
I don't know the exact dates for camping season either, but I know some lower elevation campgrounds close in May/June (Molina Basin)... while those higher up don't open fully til later in the Spring. But there are SOOooo many remote areas up there (like Peppersauce and the "back" side into Oro Valley) that don't get much by way of use/monitoring by the Parkies. It's a vast wilderness up there. I know folks who back country camp without a permit. Just on the cheap. LOL.
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I'm also a Tucson local and I have gone camping at a bunch of different places here. Never once bought a permit, or saw any kind of LE around. I have been East of Isabel's house about 45 minutes, can't remember the name right now, but we met people who were actually living out of their car in the remote desert area, no permit or anything. Makes me scared that someone could be hiding out not too far away. I hope TPD has been wandering the deserts with dogs and such.
 
I thought about Peppersauce too. Mapping it, it's 1 hour & 41 minutes from Isabel's home. Just something I'll file with all my other stuff...48.9 miles. ya never know.
 
SUNchips said:
I'm also a Tucson local and I have gone camping at a bunch of different places here. Never once bought a permit, or saw any kind of LE around. I have been East of Isabel's house about 45 minutes, can't remember the name right now, but we met people who were actually living out of their car in the remote desert area, no permit or anything. Makes me scared that someone could be hiding out not too far away. I hope TPD has been wondering the deserts with dogs and such.
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I wonder about that too. No one knows where JM works or lives yet. Did you go up Mt. Lemmon & camp without a permit? It's been quite a while since I've checked on camp fees etc..

10 years ago there were homeless or what they called "tent people" living in a wash near Speedway & hmmm Camino Seco? Somewhere in there plus somewhere around I10 & Grant.

night all.
 
Dr. Know? said:
I thought about Peppersauce too. Mapping it, it's 1 hour & 41 minutes from Isabel's home. Just something I'll file with all my other stuff...48.9 miles. ya never know.
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A 49 minute drive is nothin' here, as you know. People drive that far or more to gamble, quad, or bird watch. We're simply surrounded by desolate, isolated terrain on all sides. Then there's the more distant canyons, like Madera, and all of the washes and unmaintained/private roads - all accessible with 4WD. We have one of the latter unmaintained roads near me (end of N. Houghton) where we know at least one homeless person camps/lives. It's PCSO jurisdiction, but it's not patrolled unless in response to a call. It's also a haven for illegal (landscaping) dumping...

But! My sincere hope is that Isabel is still alive. While the chances are slim, they exist. Maybe in Mexico. Maybe at an encampment. (wondering now if Agua Caliente was searched...).
 
SUNchips said:
I'm also a Tucson local and I have gone camping at a bunch of different places here. Never once bought a permit, or saw any kind of LE around. I have been East of Isabel's house about 45 minutes, can't remember the name right now, but we met people who were actually living out of their car in the remote desert area, no permit or anything. Makes me scared that someone could be hiding out not too far away. I hope TPD has been wondering the deserts with dogs and such.
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Yup. Lots of folks camp without a permit. :) It's not enforced at all. Unfortunately, many of these areas are not TPD's jurisdiction. They're Pima County Sheriff's jurisdiction. Not saying they aren't cooperating in the search, but they'd likely have to be specifically requested to search a given area. They have their hands full, too. They cover a LOT of square miles.
 
Becky and Sergio Celis have scheduled an interview Friday with all of the local news stations. :woohoo:

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/150103215.html


cluciano63 said:
I am trying but cannot recall a case where a little girl about Isabel's age was taken and eventually found alive...? The ones I have come across, they are usually killed quickly and found locally, not even well-hidden in some cases.

I don't like to compare cases as I think they are all different, but was more thinking about outcomes, if there are any 5-7 year-old girls who were eventually found alive.
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These are not "eventually" because they were quick outcomes. Generally a child this young has been abducted from their yard with witnesses.
So there is an Amber Alert... and either someone sees the vehicle or the perp gets scared and drops the child off.
Obviously, we've also seen good outcomes when someone is abducted from the house in the middle of the night. Elizabeth Smart, etc.



Shasta Groene - 8 - abducted from her bed with her 9 year old brother, her family was killed.
Her 9 year old brother was later killed in another state.
Shasta was brought back to her hometown 7 weeks later and then recognized in a Denny's.

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Idaho-girl-says-suspect-molested-her-brother-1177670.php



Jennifer Schuett - 8 - Abducted from her bed, raped and left for dead, found 12 hours later. Arrest almost 20 years later. :woohoo:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...ears-after-abduction-survivor-now-1724788.php

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=7064746



Jeannette Tamayo - 9 - abducted from home, mother and brother beaten. Held for 3 days before she conned him into releasing her.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/jeannette-tamayo-escape-kidnapper/story?id=14062737



Midsi Sanchez - 8 - abducted walking home, held for 2 days before she unlocked her shackles and escaped from her abductors car.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/e/a/2000/08/13/NEWS1416.dtl&ao=all

http://www.mercurynews.com/bay-area...rvivor-midsi-sanchez-hero-family-missing-teen



Alisa Maier - 4 - abducted from front yard, left by abductor at car wash more than 24 hours later.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20009861-504083.html



There was also another 4 year old who was found alive after 24 hours... I cannot remember her name at the moment.



Natalie Flores - 5 abducted from front yard, vehicle chased down by police 7 hours later.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2009-12-25/news/17940870_1_suspect-chased-andy-hill



8 year old girl - abducted outside a home playing with friends, spotted by a citizen in the suspect vehicle 12 hours later.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500202_162-6931787.html



Calysta Cordova - 9 - abducted walking home, escaped 18 hours later.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/01/colorado-girl-9-hero-kidnapper.html



Shannon Matthews - 9 - didn't return from a school swimming trip, found more than 3 weeks later, hidden to collect reward money.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jun/16/twists-shannon-matthews-case
 
~n/t~ said:
The camera is on their house and pointing to the sky??? :what:
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Just catching up as usual.

Remember seeing a ladder lying by the side of the house early on? Wonder if someone used that to move the camera?

Of course we do not know when the camera might have been moved. Could have been way before Isa went missing. BUT, who could not hear someone walking on the roof?

Everything we find out brings more questions than answers, IMO.

ETA: Just after making this post I do see that the discussion turned to the ladder.......should have known someone would remember it! Should have read much further before posting!!
 
cluciano63 said:
About the dogs-it was said they were both inside and out...did they say some were inside and some outside, or that they had been out sometimes and in other times? Just wondering if the dogs were split, some outdoor dogs, some not.

Can't imagine a stranger taking a chance on a house with an outdoor dog...same reason I feel iffy about Baby Lisa. Anyway, don't want to start the debate on dogs, and what they will or won't do, it is JMO.
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JVM said some were inside and some outside. They showed one dog at the door. It looked like a German Shepherd to me but others can correct me if I'm wrong. As far as I know that's never been confirmed by LE. However, the neighbour said the dogs were outside and she would see the Celis family members bringing them food. I have no idea how many dogs they own.

The dogs not barking wouldn't really raise suspicion for me because we've seen cases where the dogs didn't bark and it was a stranger abduction but add the alleged broken camera and my hinky meter is sky high.

It leaves me to suspect someone who knew this family. Someone who had been there before. Someone who would have known the surveillance camera was non functional.

Some perps are brazen and do enter the home through open windows or unlocked doors but to go with the theory that this perp took that risk with dogs outside and/or inside with a surveillance camera on the roof just doesn't jive for me.

The ladder bothers me a lot also. To think this perp was so lucky to have a ladder right there, alleged open window, dogs inside and/or outside, an alleged non functional surveillance camera pointing up to the sky......wow. Like I said last night, this was his lucky day.
 
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