George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

[sleonardelli]

OK, I know this is OT but I saw someone post the Retreat at Twin Lakes NWP guidebook. Can anyone post them in the document sticky? I haven't thoroughly perused that sticky yet so I don't know if they're posted.

I created my own document based on these threads to keep things straight for myself. Unfortunately, I don't have access to my document (and the guidebook isn't in there anyway) because my laptop is getting fixed due to malware (using husband's now). I don't know how I got the malware since I have Norton and the only links I hit are here or FB. However, Norton Safe Web indicates WS is 100% safe.

 

[sleonardelli]

I'm not sure how it is unreasonable to say that IF Zimmerman had needed bandages on the back of his head and/or his nose the next day that he would have needed them minutes after the incident occured. When I am bleeding I do not wait until the next day before I apply a much needed bandage. I don't know of anyone that does.

The police report that we have seen was not a complete or final report. It stated that there was blood on Zimmerman's nose and back of the head. I have said before that I am not sure that all of the blood was Zimmerman's considering he had shot Trayvon and then placed his hands on him. I know that Trayvon was bleeding as it has been described that Trayvon was lying face down in a pool of blood.

I also do not believe that simply because there are two small lacerations on the back of Zimmerman's head that it is evidence that Trayvon attacked him (first or otherwise) and banged his head on the sidewalk. What it does tell me is that at some point Zimmerman fell and hit his head. I think that is completely reasonable seeing how it was raining that night and the ground and sidewalk were both wet.

So while some may think that simply because I refuse to believe Zimmerman's claims of what happened that night (when he has every reason under the sun to lie since he is facing 2nd degree murder charges) that I am being unreasonable then I am sorry. However, I am not going to change my opinion without proof that I am wrong and that Zimmerman is right.

MOO

:yourock:

 

[sleonardelli]

in GZ's story his credibility will be nil. Add to that the evidence that only he was an actor that night, only he wrongly identified a criminal, called 911, expressed frustration that the a$%holes always get away, followed said a$%hole despite being told not to and then confronted him as shown by the gf's call where he pops up again surprising TM.

No way would this prosecutor with her conviction record bring this case if she wasn't confident the evidence tells the story many of us here see clearly, that of an over-vigligant vigalante who sees a black boy walking, instantaneously decides he is suspicious, up to no good and on drugs (for good measure). In GZ's mind TM is always the criminal he decided he was. He was going to apprehend and detain him and be a big hero. This one was not going to get away. Not until after he shoots and kills him does he discover he doesn't have a weapon or proceeds of a robbery so then he needs this story that TM confronted him and, for no earthly reason and despite no history or propensity toward violence, decides to attempt to kill this stranger. Does not compute.

The standard of proof is not "absolutely had to happen this way" it's beyond a reasonable doubt. To me, it's beyond almost any doubt that GZ was the cause of every effect that occurred. He was wrong about everything and proceeded on that wrong assumption until he caused a wrongful death over it. Once it's established that it was TM screaming for his life and GZ aiming the gun at him and shooting while TM is doing nothing but pleading, I think that should about do it.

Reasonable poeple can easily conclude that what GZ did at every step was further and further from reasonable. I know it's not illegal to follow someone. But if you call 911 on them and then follow them with a gun because you've already decided they were a criminal a reasonable person will assume you mean to do something when you find them, especially when you have already expressed your angst over these a&^holes getting away. This is simple logic here and I think most people will stop "following" GZ's series of actions once he gets out of his truck with his gun. Most people will say, OK he called 911 even though there wasn't actually anything suspicious about this person but he's super sensitive or whatever so he called and police were on the way and so all he had to do was wait for them to show up and find out TM was staying there. Or, he could have asked TM himself while he was on the phone with 911 and TM was walking by his car. Gee, now that would have been reasonable for an armed adult neighborhood watchman type guy, ask the kid who he is, if he's lost, needs help etc.

GZ decided at every turn to act less and less reasonably and by the time he exits his car with a weapon he has, to many reasonable people, decided to apprehend and detain the person he has followed as that person is a criminal and the rest have gotten away. Even when you're engaged in lawful activity you are responsible for the foreseeable consequences of those acts. However, detaining a person is not legal if you're not a real cop. Now, everyone can say we don't really know what happened. But I think the lack of real injury which GZ came up with when he needed a self defense story rather than a capturing a criminal story will undo him. He was not injured in any serious way AND his stories conflict and also make it impossible that he was the last one screaming on the 911 tape as his story is that at that point TM has his mouth and nose covered and he was swallowing blood and couldn't breathe. Two experts and both parents have said it was Trayvon screaming for his life. I say thank you for that tape as I think it will ultimately be the kind of proof that anyone can understand, people with life experience can hear that and know it's not a person screaming in pain from a fight, it's a primal scream, the kind of scream that occurs when a young boy sees a gun pointed at him and knows this crazy guy is going to pull the trigger and kill him-which he did and that's when the screaming ended, suddenly and forever.

:yourock::yourock:

 

[sleonardelli]

Ranch, here's my point and the reason I posted what has been verified as George's statement to LE, if we're going to acknowledge that George and the SPD said he had some injuries, shouldn't we acknowledge where he indicates he got them AT?

Every bit of insight available to us from this verified article, his attorney's questioning of the Investigator at the Bond Hearing, and his father's detailed accounting of what George told him about that night, all tell the same story and sequence of events.

George got out of his vehicle.....followed Trayvon on the sidewalk for 18 seconds until the dispatcher told him to stop.....continued on to the next street over for an address....was walking back to his vehicle when Trayvon attacked him and started beating him.

George's father got fairly specific as to the location of this beating:



If this deal went down anything like George told LE, how did the body wind up 70 yards from Trayvon's own back door as George Zimmerman's OWN ATTORNEY volunteered at the bond hearing?

From the Bond Hearing recording at the [1:19:55] mark:



Do you realize that's over 170' away from where George's story says he got these injuries? In the OPPOSITE direction from this vehicle he was supposedly walking to?

The three attachments below show in this order:

-The location of where Trayvon was staying per the NY Times

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...eading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

-Image showing 70 yard distance

-Image showing distance to "that area where the sidewalks meet"

Something's not right with this story.

:tyou:

 

[jjenny]

Zimmerman's own words will be used against him. The 911 call will certainly be played in court. Zimmerman is asked by the 911 operator if he is following. Zimmerman responds "yes". "We don't need you to do that," says the 911 operator. "Okay," says Zimmerman. Zimmerman does not do what he says. "Okay" means "I agree, I understand, I concur, this is reaonsonable, yes." Zimmeran gets out of his vehicle anyway. His credibility is now -1 in court.

jmo

He was most likely already out of the vehicle when 911 dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that."

 

[rotterdam]

Again, you don't even need a story for this. You just need to "poke holes" in the opposing side's story. A *huge* hole in the "fact" that Zimmerman confronted Martin is that there's no proof, that we've seen, that it absolutely had to happen this way. To combine that with Detective Gilbreath stating, on the stand (bail hearing), that he has no evidence to say that Zimmerman confronted or attacked Martin, is huge. How do you come to a conclusion with no evidence to support it? How can you ask a jury to accept a conclusion based on no evidence?

Neither did he have any evidence that Trayvon attacked first. We do have evidence that GZ attacked Trayvon. There is a 16mm hole in chest to substantiate that.
And the booboos on GZ's head, supposedly from Trayvon.

 

[Concerned Papa]

He was most likely already out of the vehicle when 911 dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that."

Jenny, when you have time check the recording. I believe you will hear GZ getting out of his vehicle at [2:08] and 18 seconds later, at [2:26], hear the dispatcher say "We don't need you to do that".

 

[AJ Noiter]

Neither did he have any evidence that Trayvon attacked first. We do have evidence that GZ attacked Trayvon. There is a 16mm hole in chest to substantiate that.
And the booboos on GZ's head, supposedly from Trayvon.

A bullet hole does not show who attacked who. It shows how the fight ended.

 

[sleonardelli]

I saw a post indicating Trayvon was found lying in a pool of his own blood; if that's the case, then shouldn't there be a lot of blowback on GZ? I tried to find a link but none were MSM.

 

[Harmony 2]

IMO,this is going to be one of the most critical parts of the case. There is a lot of disagreement as to whether George Z was truly injured or not.

I do believe he had some injuries-but as to the extent and severity I am not convinced.

I understand that he does not necessarily have to be critically injured or anything for his defense to hold up-but we have been told that he was badly injured so that is what the story is going to be.

Let's move the discussion regarding Zimmerman's injuries to this thread.

I know this is a hot topic so please do your best to be respectful of one another's points of view.

This thread should be about George Zimmerman's injuries... Please stay on topic

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

I didn't say he wouldn't have a story. I'm sure Zimmerman's words in the police reports, etc, will be used as that story. I simply stated that ALL the defense has to do is cast doubt on the idea that the only way it could have happened with this outcome is if Zimmerman confronted Martin. That's not a very big jump to make at all.

As for Martin's possible motives to attack Zimmerman, no matter what is said it would be speculation. Just like no matter what is said about the idea of Zimmerman confronting Martin, it's speculation. We don't have the facts. The only way to get the absolute fact of this specifically is if we could conclude that the only person who knows exactly what happened is telling the truth, otherwise it's conjecture no matter who tells the story.

Isn't the only person, that knows exactly what happened, and could tell us the truth dead?


A reasonable person can figure out that Trayvon was just a kid coming back from a store, talking to his girlfriend on the phone, while being stalked by a man, first in a SUV then on foot, and was fighting for his life and lost it because of George Zimmerman actions.

Zimmerman started this. He now needs to man up, tell the truth and take his punishment.

 

[wishuwerehere]

He was most likely already out of the vehicle when 911 dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that."

Why does Zimmerman call the police, get out of his vehicle, in pursuit on foot, following Trayvon? This shows intent. Zimmerman is intending to detain Trayvon before the police arrive. That is why he is out of his vehicle before the end of the 911 call.

Zimmerman never retreats back to his vehicle. He doesn’t adhere to the 911 dispatcher’s admonitions. Zimmerman shows disregard for authority and will do things his way.

jmo

 

[octobermoon]

Isn't the only person, that knows exactly what happened, and could tell us the truth dead?


A reasonable person can figure out that Trayvon was just a kid coming back from a store, talking to his girlfriend on the phone, while being stalked by a man, first in a SUV then on foot, and was fighting for his life and lost it because of George Zimmerman actions.

Zimmerman started this. He now needs to man up, tell the truth and take his punishment.

BBM A grown man with a gun followed a kid at night in the rain. Creeper. IMO JMO MOO

says it all. IMO JMO MOO

JMO MOO IMO

 

[octobermoon]

Would any father or mother here instruct one of their children over/under the age of 21 to follow a suspicious person? This isn't complicated. You just don't. IMO Simple as that. Don't put yourself or others in danger. JMO IMO MOO

 

[octobermoon]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvxu8QY01s"]Ballad of Paladin Have Gun Will Travel - YouTube[/ame]

 

[vlpate]

This thread should be about George Zimmerman's injuries... Please stay on topic

:bump:

 

[vlpate]

I saw a post indicating Trayvon was found lying in a pool of his own blood; if that's the case, then shouldn't there be a lot of blowback on GZ? I tried to find a link but none were MSM.

I didn't actually see this anywhere, interesting. GZ probably had his jacket closed and therefore you would not see blood on his shirt. I try to visualize TM on top of GZ, and it seems he would not have been laying flat against him, but probably straddling him to a certain degree. After the shot, Zimmerman quickly got out from under him. At that point, TM's blood would have just been on the ground. I don't know how much that sort of chest wound would bleed.

 

[TorisMom003]

"When officer T. Smith arrived at the scene moments later, he found Martin’s body lying face down on the grass about 70 yards from the family’s home, bleeding from a chest wound. He had $22, candy and a can of iced tea in his pockets."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/08/2684419/shooting-mystery-miami-dade-teen.html#storylink=cpy

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

He was not on patrol that night, so the NWP "rules" (which are more guidelines than law) are irrelevant. Being followed is not a reason to be fearing for your life unless you're aware of a credible threat, which I have not heard of a report saying there was a threat other than the people who believe Zimmerman should fry without a trial. Being afraid because someone is watching you alone is a bit paranoid if you ask me. If he were afraid why didn't he run when his girlfriend told him to? Why did he simply put up his hoodie and "walk fast?" It's my opinion that he wasn't afraid, his girlfriend was.

George Zimmerman was always in a "on patrol" mode and I bet it was not only just his neighborhood.

George Zimmerman, a man with no power or authority, hunted down a young man, (with a gun he was not to have on him) and shot him dead.

George Zimmerman got out of his SUV with a gun. What did he think would happen if he confronted someone with it?

George Zimmerman is a bully

I think it was only a matter of time before George killed someone.

 

[octobermoon]

George Zimmerman was always in a "on patrol" mode and I bet it was not only just his neighborhood.

George Zimmerman, a man with no power or authority, hunted down a young man, (with a gun he was not to have on him) and shot him dead.

George Zimmerman got out of his SUV with a gun. What did he think would happen if he confronted someone with it?

George Zimmerman is a bully

I think it was only a matter of time before George killed someone.

BBM
He called police 46 times. Who does that? He was borrowing trouble.