AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[SweetT]

I disagree that Sergio was removed from his boys because he was smothering them. The boys have lost their sister (maybe forever, unfortunately). They don't need the added torment of losing their father because dad has become overprotective (which would be understandable considering that his daughter is missing). Breaking up a familly during a crisis is a huge thing to do and not something that should be done unless not doing so endangers the welfare of the boys.

I agree with you on this, if anything the boys need their father right now. I also don't think LE did this to put the screws to the parents. CPS did this and it was a voluntary move from what we have read. I am guessing something was discovered during the interviews with LE and then CPS became involved but it couldnt have been something criminal or else Sergio would have charges against him already. So it has to be something that CPS felt Sergio should be out of the house for and to the benefit of the boys etc. Collusion? Maybe.. Whatever it was CPS talked Sergio into believing that he was doing this and that it was best for his kids. Otherwise if he didnt agree then they would have went to all the trouble to have it forced on him whatever it is. Maybe the boys didnt like being pressured to be in Opera? I dont know at this point.

 

[Boodles]

click on the second picture (the 911 call from junior/rebecca). at 0:22 the man calls out that he needs his address. how far did junior go before the cops got there? it obviously wasn't a neighbor. it then took 6 minutes for the man to drive junior back at which point rebecca took the phone.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlin...ed-my-little-girl-i-believe-she-was-abducted/

ok is it me or is junior slurring. badly.

I didn't notice slurring, but most of what he said was unintelligible to me. I could only understand when the transcript became available. I noticed he sounded stuffed up, like when you cry, your nasal passages swell up and you can't breathe and sniffing.

 

[~n/t~]

If she thought the "evidence" or whatever LE informed CPS about was trumped up, fabricated, untrue, or misconstrued. Or even if she knew it was true, but that LE and CPS were using it to apply heat to the family - and she truly believes that SC had nothing to do with it, whatever his flaws may be.

If I were in her position, I may be outraged as well. We don't know why the no contact order was put into place, but depending on why and how it was done, it could easily make her angry at the attempts to split up the family.

Please read back to why I replied the way I did. The discussion was about cartels.

 

[Theforeigner]

<modsnip> arguments and theories about random sexual predators or irate drug dealers who could have sneaked into the Celis house and spirited Isabel away.

The Tuscon police have done an outstanding job so far. They put a wedge between Sergio and Becky BEFORE they have lawyered up. They have isolated Sergio from his sons, who may know something that points to Sergio that they have been afraid to tell police. They shrewdly waited to release the 911 tapes until the parents had spoken in public. By waiting to release the tapes, which surely would have led to a defense lawyer's grabbing the Celises and telling them, "Retain me and shut your mouths", the police have given the Celises enough rope to hang themsleves.

I believe the following points are obvious:

1) The police consider Sergio Celis the prime suspect.
2) Sergio was chiefly responsible for whatever happened to Isabel.
3) Becky Celis knows more than she has let on about Sergio's involvement.
4) When Sergio called 911, he knew for sure either that Isabel was already dead OR that she was 100% safe someplace. My point is: Sergio was very relaxed during the 911 call, which he would not have been had he really thought Isabel had been abducted by a stranger.
5) It is unlikely that Isabel is being safely kept someplace (see #4 above) because Sergio and any helpers would have released her by now, since the tide is turning against Sergio.
6) The reason Sergio has agreed to be cut off completely from his sons is because CPS has info directly related to Isabel's disappearance that will get him in hot water if CPS has to go to court to cut off contact between Sergio and the boys. Sergio has agreed to stay away so that info doesn't get out (yet).
7) People are not completely cut off from their children by CPS -- meaning not allowed even supervised visits or monitored phone calls -- unless there is something very serious at stake. So, let's stop with the Sergio-needs-time-away-to-process-all-this nonsense.
8) None of the Celises is in the crosshairs of Mexican drug dealers. If that were the case, they'd be in protective custody.

<modsnip> maintain Sergio was uninvolved with Isabel's disappearance. Sergio's call to 911 was a bizarre joke and a defense attorney's nightmare. Last week, I thought I had lost my wallet and called my parents to see if I had left it at their house. I was significantly more distressed when asking my mother to look for my wallet than Sergio was telling 911 his daughter had been "abducted".

I couldn't agree more, and very well summed up

 

[Hatfield]

Maybe someone saw this, but there was a small clip on TV of the father singing I think with the Mother in his arms, and I think in a church.

The question I have.....Was this after the daughter went missing? And, if so, that would really bother me even more because as we have discussed reactions and what would be considered a normal reaction, I just cannot see how anybody could sing after something like this has happened. I know he is a real good singer probably, but if this happened after she went missing, I just think it is very inappropriate and cannot see how a parent could even do that. The word "theatrical" came out by JVM regarding his first interview, and this word would also apply if he publicly sung after she went missing.
JMO of course.

Now, if it was before she went missing, then it would be normal since he was a singer anyway.

 

[PAXIMUS]

So does my boss ("thanks, man") - I can guarantee you that at least he's not in a gang. I really don't think slang is indicative of gang affiliation, most of the time. :moo:

Although, if it is, like, what's my gang sign for Valley Girls Anonymous? Bit of a problem for me!

Maaaan, I so agree, dude.

 

[bwilson]

Could brother be in gang or something?
He mumbles and says 'man' allot.........slang???

Uhmmm...'man' is not really gang slang, lol. and the kid doesn't look like a gangster to me. We do have gangs in Tucson but its not really a problem in the area where the Celis family lives. I don't think Junior had anything to do w it.

 

[iSleuth]

So why is Becky outraged if it's being done to protect the boys?

Her 911 call is heart breaking " she was wearing little pony tails on the sides of her head " but...Is RC cleared in your minds completely? The one thing we know for sure is that -she "left" the house early that morning...and another thing we know is that she " forgot" look in on her 3 children.

Any thoughts?

 

[LisaB]

I think the answers are staring at us right in the face.

The facts are:

LE continues to search the immediate area.

Screen found in backyard.

CPS involvement.

911 calls released and needless to say dad's affect is bizarre to say the least.

Dad watched a ball game and went to bed at midnight.

Mom was at work at 7:00 according to 911 call.

Neighbour hears male voices and Celis dogs barking like crazy at 6:30 am

If mom was at work at 7, she may have left the house before 6:30.

Assuming that the 6:30 commotion was when the abduction happened it's an odd time to kidnap a child from her bed. People in the home might be already awake at that time, especially if some of them have to get to work at 7 am.

Could they have noticed Isabel missing earlier than stated?

It's possible that the only person awake at that hour was in the shower and did not hear a thing. I know SC said (of the previous night) that they had all taken their showers, but I assumed (and still do) that he meant all the KIDS.

I don't believe that's when the "abduction" happened. I believe that's when the staging of the window break-in happened though.

Now i thought Rc left the house at 7 am to go to work? Is this time wrong?
Why wouldnt they hear what was going on if their dogs were barking and sheet was happening?

If RC had not left for work yet she was awake and almost ready to leave she should have heard all this

JMO

Assume for a moment this was staged by SC. Isabel was taken much earlier and he wanted RC to find that she was missing. While she was in the shower getting ready for work, he could have gone out, pulled the screen, and returned to wherever he had been sleeping, and waited for his wife to start screaming for Isabel. But she didn't. So he pretended not to notice the screen was out so that someone (anyone) else would be the first to notice it.

Also... both parents work in facilities where surgical gloves could be obtained easily. Although it would not be unusual for the homeowner's prints to be on a window screen, it would be odd if there were no unfamiliar prints unless there were obvious smears from gloves if the parents were claiming someone else took out the screen. Anyone can buy these gloves at a pharmacy, so this does not necessarily implicate either parent, but doesn't exclude them either.

 

[Shelby2]

In Little league and recreation leagues at the level their kids are playing , the coaches are Dads( or parents -could be a Mom) and no they do not go through any background checks as a school sponsored coaches or certified teachers.

Wow, here we need background checks to go on field trips!

 

[cj1132]

In regards to the window that some think was staged. I've been thinking about this and it finally dawned on me. When my son was 14 or 15, he'd take his screen off the window, lay it down outside and sneak out to meet his friends. He used the side window as he was less likely to be observed by neighbors. He even had a little ladder that he had standing against that side of the house which he used for climbing in and out. I rarely went to that side of the house so I didn't know about the ladder. I did catch him but I really don't know for sure how many times he'd snuck out. JMO but I think the oldest son "may" have been sneaking out that window and "may" have done it that night, hence the open window. I can't see a "kidnapper" leaving it the way it was left but a kid, yes. If so, the question is was that a coincidence that the window was left open the very night Isa disappears? It's possible someone may have been aware of the pattern and took advantage of the situation, it may have been staged or maybe it's not relevant at all -- just poor timing on the son's part. JMO IMO

 

[mck16]

Here on WS where we aren't allowed to identify the names, schools, ball schedules, etc of the children (not even to copy them from MSM articles) and certainly have been told not to sleuth them ~ I question if it's fair or right to be critiquing the 14-year-old quite so aggressively.

In light of this (trying to be gentle) reminder, does anyone want to go back and edit any posts before the mods move in? (Where is that hiding behind the couch icon when I need it?)

Thanks and I was thinking the same thing. Have we run out of anything else so now we are questioning a child. I don't even call that sleuthing. JMO

 

[mom_of_five]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...d-police-confirm/?tag=cbsnewsSectionContent.5

Police confirm she was abducted.

 

[~n/t~]

Her 911 call is heart breaking " she was wearing little pony tails on the sides of her head " but...Is RC cleared in your minds completely? The one thing we know for sure is that -she "left" the house early that morning...and another thing we know is that she " forgot" look in on her 3 children.

Any thoughts?

Nobody is cleared in my mind. If the neighbour's account is accurate, I do not understand how RC could not have heard the male voices and her dogs barking like crazy.

Something is just not adding up for me. I wish we had a decent timeline to work with but unfortunately, there are way too many discrepancies.

Did Isabel go to bed at 10, 10:30, 11?

Did mom leave the house at 7 or was she already at work at 7?

What time did they get home from the baseball game?

Did they all leave at the same time and go home together?

Did mom go to bed when Isa went to bed?

Did the boys go out with friends or were they home when dad was watching the game? If they went out, what time did they get home? Did they notice anything suspicious?

and so on and so on and so on.......

Why was the 14 year old brought back to the house (separate from either parent) and not the 10 year old?

 

[Eileen730]

Her 911 call is heart breaking " she was wearing little pony tails on the sides of her head " but...Is RC cleared in your minds completely? The one thing we know for sure is that -she "left" the house early that morning...and another thing we know is that she " forgot" look in on her 3 children.

Any thoughts?

She could have left with the child. All we have been told is what she said she did. I do not think anyone saw her leave..
Or knows what time she actually did leave!

 

[Hatfield]

Another observation I had last night when the friend was asked by NG about whether the father could visit with the kids, the friend indicated that the father told him he could not answer certain things. NG picked up on that, and was thinking maybe the father does have a lawyer because someone obviously was advising the father that he could not talk about certain things.

This does not confirm whether or not he has a laywer, but it was interesting, and kind of leans that way.

 

[Nana46]

Maaaan, I so agree, dude.

I am old and I say dude all the time,lol:rocker:

 

[PAXIMUS]

Those voices at 6:30 AM, may just be the key to this case in my opinion.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I am old and I say dude all the time,lol:rocker:

Rock on, maaan.


I go ever further and call everyone "dudeman". "What's shaken dudeman?"

Or even "man dude" as in "Hey man my car broke down."

"Maaaan, dude, that blows."

 

[prima.facie]

Thanks and I was thinking the same thing. Have we run out of anything else so now we are questioning a child. I don't even call that sleuthing. JMO

Forgive me for asking this - im still very new here - but even though the brother is a child, him being in the house during her dissapearance...wouldnt that make him a potential suspect, just like mom and dad or anyone else?

Where exactly is the line?

(Kids can be just as dangerous as adults.....
http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/kid-psychopath-221400341.html)


[with all that said, right now I dont see him as responsible for her dissapearance, I just wanted some clarification]

Thanks