2012.05.17 Doc Dump Thread

[Just K]

For the millionth time, Trayvon Martin did not cause all those scratches to GZ's face...there was NO GZ DNA under TM's fingernails. NONE.

 

[Just K]

There is no proof that he did either. There is proof that GZ had injuries though.

Which can easily be explained by tugging at someone and that person falling backward and on top of GZ. Then the younger one manages to get on top and fights his way away but within SECONDS of hitting the ground he his shot dead. The yelling is said to have begun before the two ended up on the ground. The time on the ground is only a portion of the time that the two were in contact. Per the witness statements.

 

[MaryAnn]

There is no proof that he did either. There is proof that GZ had injuries though.

GZ has a boo boo, but Trayvon is DEAD

 

[Just K]

The GF information of TM and here he comes indicates GZ was in sight and moving. Apparently TM saw GZ easily enough. So, GZ wasn't hiding.

But there was a time when TM said he had lost sight of the man. GZ could have come from a hiding spot...just saying...we can go round and round...so, far the only one saying how it played out is the guy who is on trial for second degree murder. No other witness can say with any certainty how the two ended up behind the 2nd or 3rd townhouse, together and then on the ground.

 

[LambChop]

For the millionth time, Trayvon Martin did not cause all those scratches to GZ's face...there was NO GZ DNA under TM's fingernails. NONE.

And this would, IMO, give more credibility to TM trying to get away from GZ because GZ was trying to keep TM from running away. There were no injuries to TM's right hand. He was right-handed. jmo

 

[stmarysmead]

GZ has a boo boo, but Trayvon is DEAD

That does not mean that if Trayvon attacked GZ that his death is not partly his own responsibility. Do we not teach our children that violence begets violence? TM had no right to beat GZ to the extent he was beaten. If it took a bullet to stop that beating..that is a tragedy..but TM had responsibility too for those sad consequences.

 

[Isabelle]

That doesn't mean "feat." It means within inches.

So, help me define close range vs intermediate distance vs long distance. Thanks Measurement in feet or inches would be ok.

ETA: Doc on JVM just defined the distance as 3 inches to 18 inches as intermediate.

 

[Isabelle]

GZ has a boo boo, but Trayvon is DEAD

GZ's little booboo to his nose is most likely because he hit himself with the butt of his gun when it recoiled, since he was in such close proximity to TM. GZ probably did not have enough room for extended arms with elbows locked.

 

[gxm]

For the millionth time, Trayvon Martin did not cause all those scratches to GZ's face...there was NO GZ DNA under TM's fingernails. NONE.

TM's watch could have caused the scratches, or the sidewalk, or any debris as GZ struggled underneath TM.

JMO, OMO, and MOO

 

[pamelahl1]

Maybe Martin had a hold of his gun hand twisting it or pushing it back?

Thus, the chilling, blood curdling, begging screams for help from someone knowing that they might die at that moment.

 

[Florida Native]

GZ has a boo boo, but Trayvon is DEAD

That still doesn't mean it was murder.

 

[Isabelle]

"The reports also noted the fatal wound's surrounded by a two-by-two inch pattern called stippling, caused by gunpower burns. It suggests Zimmerman fired inches away from the teenager."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_1...ords-were-its-over/?google_editors_picks=true

That would support the possibility that the nose wound was caused by GZ being hit with the butt when he fired. Elbows weren't locked with arms extended. Probably had the gun pretty close to his face if one was on top of the other.

 

[rossva]

IIRC, the can was on Martin's person when cpr was performed on him, and it was the cpr attempts that dislodged the can. I would assume that some one in LE realized that and placed on the edge of the biohazard sheet so it wouldn't get disturbed any further. It was photograped, and I would assume bagged and tagged there after.

Because as evidence it should have been photographed where it was found. I think we can all agree it was not found in that position otherwise the photo would have been of TM's body showing the can exactly where it was found and frankly we would not have seen it. What we would see is a picture after it was gather and bagged. IT DOES NOT BELONG THERE. It's evidence. <modsnip>

 

[Isabelle]

That still doesn't mean it was murder.

Guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[Maxim]

And this would, IMO, give more credibility to TM trying to get away from GZ because GZ was trying to keep TM from running away. There were no injuries to TM's right hand. He was right-handed. jmo

So, TM was trying to run away all the while he was beating on GZ.

 

[rossva]

I agree 100%. Sort of like when your local charity says: "we don't need you to donate."

I disagree.

When someone tells someone that they don't *need* something, it doesn't mean that they don't *want* it or that it's unnecessary or that to proceed would be unwelcome.

My tired teenager was about to unload the dishwasher for me, and I said, "You don't need to do that."

Heck, it wasn't that it would be *unwelcome*. It was just that I felt that I could handle it better than he could.

He saw that I had a to-do list a mile long and said, "I can do it - it's not a problem."

GZ was present, in the neighborhood where a suspicious-looking stranger had just turned a corner.

Unless I am remembering incorrectly, GZ had not announced to the dispatcher that TM had turned a corner and disappeared from view. GZ just continued his description of what he was seeing as he commenced to move from his vehcile and walk towards the cut-through area.

GZ's eyes were on the situation, and he was in a better position to know what would be helpful to the policemen than a dispatcher who was just receiving remote information.

On a *typical* evening, GZ would have first seen TM while afoot, not from his vehicle. If that had been the case - that he was out walking his dog and continued to walk in the direction where TM had disappeared - would *that* have been a violation?

 

[rossva]

If you read up thread you will find that there is a poster pointing out it was not actually Arizona Iced Tea, but Arizona Watermelon, that is why I refer to the can as "tea". By the way, the company is not the Arizona Iced Tea company, it is the Arizona Beverage company. I agree that the can found with Martin is the exact same can he purchased at 7-11. In defferance to the OP, I agree with him that all reports we have seen so far have it mislabeled as Iced Tea, therefore I put the word "tea" in quotes.

What is the deal with "tea"? That's exactly what it a was, a non alcoholic drink in a can made by the Arizona Iced Tea company. If you've looked at the TM 7-11 video, this bag is clearly the same one the clerk handed him and TM put the can in it in full view of the camera.

There's no need to create drama where no exists.

 

[stmarysmead]

Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz on why the charges should be dropped in light of this "evidence."




A medical report by George Zimmerman&#8217;s doctor has disclosed that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, two black eyes, two lacerations on the back of his head and a back injury on the day after the fatal shooting. If this evidence turns out to be valid, the prosecutor will have no choice but to drop the second-degree murder charge against Zimmerman &#8212; if she wants to act ethically, lawfully and professionally.

There is, of course, no assurance that the special prosecutor handling the case, State Attorney Angela Corey, will do the right thing. Because until now, her actions have been anything but ethical, lawful and professional.

She was aware when she submitted an affidavit that it did not contain the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. She deliberately withheld evidence that supported Zimmerman&#8217;s claim of self-defense. The New York Times has reported that the police had &#8220;a full face picture&#8221; of Zimmerman, before paramedics treated him, that showed &#8220;a bloodied nose.&#8221; The prosecutor also had photographic evidence of bruises to the back of his head. More here:

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/...murder-charge-article-1.1080161#ixzz1vGimxhf1

 

[detectiveconan]

Does anyone have any idea when we'll get all of GZ statements?

Because there have been so many different stories being told by the Zimmermans.If it really was self-defense why would their stories change so drastically? I think it will be his statements that will cause his demise. Why wasn't he truthful? He had something to hide.imo

I don't see how anyone could ignore the fact that his story indeed kept changing. That is a fact. I think you have to look at the whole picture to determine what really went on.

I repeat,why would a completely innocent person lie..not only lie but lie badly? Can someone answer that without bias?

 

[rossva]

The small object with a white spot on it? I beleive that is Martin's phone.

What is the gray object in the picture, just to the right of the midline? (not the sidewalk) Thanks