AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Patty G]

I believe bedrooms without closets are classified as dens. Not positive that's the case everywhere though.

I can't tell by the floorplan if there is a closet in that room or not. Yupper, in order for a room to be classified as a bedroom, it needs a closet.

 

[katydid23]

RUMOR-----RUMOR---- Last week I read on the FB Find Isabel site a commenter stated Isabel was adopted. I know everyone says Isa looks just like her mother so I discarded it. But I can't tell you how many Maury Povich shows I have seen when the mother says this guy is the father, he looks just like him stuff then the DNA says he is NOT the father.
RUMOR ONLY

If that were true, it would open a new :worms:

I would have to wonder if there was someone who wanted 'their' baby back.

 

[liz b.]

In my worst case scenario, I can see a possibility for domestic violence or abuse of some sort, though i don't feel it in my gut. What I have trouble with is that this guy has a respectable job, has a semi professional musical interest, is a little league coach, and yet some people think he is an obvious drug addict, or is dealing drugs, or into other outright criminal activities.. I know everyone dislikes the guy, but c'mon, he is just too busy to be a meth cooker or a crack head!

Oh,I don't dislike him Why would I,since I don't know him ? I did say that I am an opera buff, and I found the fact that he sings to be endearing.

I can only speak for myself.But, most posters on crime message boards have followed many,many cases. It can often turn out that the fine,upstanding citizen is a child molester.Or a wife beater. It's not that the posters have it in for SC. It is more that they have seen many very similar missing child cases...MOO I'ts not so much that they are jaded or cynical, it's more that they have a familiarity with these types of situations which most people lack. MOO

 

[cluciano63]

OT...but I hope nothing ever happens in my house It is quite small, very old, & might not stand up (literally) to such scrutiny, lol

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I realize that the method of handling and location of the body dump gives LE clues about killer, but LE specifically stated to leave the searching to them. (Please don't ask me to find this link. ). What made LE state this?

If a family member killed Isabel, her body is more likely to be well hidden. (Psycho stalker killers and serial killers frequently don't try too hard to conceal the victim's body.) One would think LE would want volunteer help if the body might be more difficult to find.

Excerpt:

FILICIDE: Document with references
The United States has one of the highest rates of filicide with an estimated two-hundred and fifty to three hundred children murdered by their parents each year.
Belief perpetuated by media coverage, fathers kill their children nearly as often as mothers.

While fathers tend to be more violent, both mothers and fathers commit filicide by using highly physical acts, such as beating, drowning, poisoning, shaking, stabbing, or suffocating their children.
“certain ‘craziness’ in both genders—they betray an intense passion and a lack of planning.”

Historically, society has responded to mothers who kill their children in one of three ways –
denial,
adopted a hybrid approach of punishment and denial.
punishment, or prevention.

Fathers dispose of their children’s bodies hundreds of miles away from the home, Mothers dispose of their children’s corpses in or near the home and do so in a "womblike" fashion by swaddling, submerging in water, or wrapping the body in plastic.

Draper, supra note 1.Dahlia Lithwick, When Parents Kill, SLATE, March 12, 2002, http://www.slate.com/id/2063086/Research also shows mothers and fathers differ in the way they dispose of their children’s corpses.

http://motherswhokillchildren.blogspot.com/2011_11_01_archive.html

 

[Patty G]

What are the chances of finding the builder's floor plan like the one the reporter was looking at on the monitor?

 

[Whisperer]

The windows are odd in that house as there is a full size window on the back of the house, of which, is being classified as the Den. There are also the small windows for the room that is next to Isa but at the front of the house, same side as Isa's bedroom.

The picture below shows the two small windows on each end of the house, with Isa's bedroom in the middle.

The second picture is the back of the house, Den side, showing a full window.

I would love to see a picture of the door coming from the Den to the backyard.

If there is a full window in there, I will agree with you that is a 4th bdrm but they use it as a den. Usually those small high windows are bathrooms.

I definitely see a door in the den leading to the porch and outside. You can walk from the den to the mbrm through the porch area.

 

[Eileen730]

In my worst case scenario, I can see a possibility for domestic violence or abuse of some sort, though i don't feel it in my gut. What I have trouble with is that this guy has a respectable job, has a semi professional musical interest, is a little league coach, and yet some people think he is an obvious drug addict, or is dealing drugs, or into other outright criminal activities.. I know everyone dislikes the guy, but c'mon, he is just too busy to be a meth cooker or a crack head!

He does have a long rap sheet!
Ward Cleaver hes not!

 

[cluciano63]

If that were true, it would open a new :worms:

I would have to wonder if there was someone who wanted 'their' baby back.

I would wonder only because LE used the words "custody dispute" almost at once, which seemed very strange for what seemed to be an "intact" family.

On another note, obviously many people who commit horrible crimes do not "present" as being capable of such things. Even Scott Peterson looked and behaved pretty normally up until he decided to commit a double murder, and he is just one example. So while I am not convinced that Sergio is guilty, I sure wouldn't say he couldn't be because he doesn't seem to fit a profile. For the murders or crimes against persons within the family there seems to be less of a "profile" or "type". We've seen respected doctors murder their wives, suburban wives arranging to have their husbands killed, etc...

JMO

 

[Whisperer]

What are the chances of finding the builder's floor plan like the one the reporter was looking at on the monitor?

I don't know what the laws are in Az but you would have to go to the city to get the plan they have on that screen. I wonder if it required a subpoena. I don't think they hand out that detailed of a house plan to anyone, just police. I was hoping to see the interior but since it has never been for sale, all hope is gone.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I haven't been able to read most of today's posts, but has there been a change of tide that now most think Sergio is the main player? I need to catch up if so. I'm open to all possibilities, still, anyone in the immediate family is low on my list. Perhaps a poster might lead me to a post that opens up Sergio as the bad person because nothing I've seen or read has pushed me to feel that way. Yes, the 911 tape was odd, but it's odd circumstances. What else? Previous CPS? Is that it?

Gee, it seems I'm always on the wrong side of the debate. How can that be? :blushing: Well, I did follow the crowd with Rowan Ford and Brianna Rodriquez. Those were pretty obvious.

You are not alone hunzey!!

..Im right here with ya...

As far as the prior CPS contact in December ..today's innformation that the issue was not serious in nature and had NOTHING TO DO WITH ..NOR IN ANY WAY INVOLVED ISA.. it is a detail IMO that's been glossed over.. jmo tho!

 

[katydid23]

Thanks for posting both of these to see . . .

One comment, doesn't it seem strange that Isabel would have the bedroom in the middle of the left side of the house, which appears to have a closet and possibly a bathroom, and the boys only have a small bedroom with no closet and no bathroom of their own? Of course, this is presuming that the drawings are representative of the home's actual layout with no remodel. Isabel's bedroom appears so much larger than the boys' room. It has nothing to do with the case, just rambling thoughts :moo:

I AGREE. I would think a 14 yr old and a 10 yr old would need the bathroom more than a 6 yr old would. They will shower and stuff all on their own, obviously. But she will still need a bit of supervision with those things. It just seems odd that TWO older kids would have a smaller room.

 

[azmary]

I would think that how ever IC was taken out of the house it would be the door away from the bedrooms.

 

[marazul]

Thank you, marazul, for this post. It helps me try to think through all of the possibilities in a logical manner. But with TPD emphasizing at every presser that they have no reason to believe she is dead, and further, that they still hold out hope that she is alive ~ We don't have to (or shouldn't) limit ourselves to how SC disposed of her body. There remains the possibility that he (or he and an accomplice) simply walked/carried Isabel out of the house to a vehicle parked anywhere nearby. For what cause and to what fate, I have no guesses.

In either case, alive or not, it makes me believe there would have to have been an accomplice with another vehicle involved. :dunno:

This is not my theory. I have none. But I just wanted to make sure you weren't building your box of possibilities too small. :blowkiss:

Thanks, honestly I am of the not too firm opinion that a stranger abduction happened to a family with a very strange but not homicidal dad. I know the odds are against my theory but the reason I have it is that if I think through my above options, I don't see any of them as likely. I don't think SC sneaked out in a car w Isa while the family slept, I don't think he left in broad daylight ( once the news was out, a neighbor, nearby employee, etc would have said "I saw that guy back out if his driveway at 7 AM") and I don't think he called a friend to come remove a body in the night. If his alibi involved coming and going during those hours, I would be more suspicious.

 

[ThoughtFox]

In my worst case scenario, I can see a possibility for domestic violence or abuse of some sort, though i don't feel it in my gut. What I have trouble with is that this guy has a respectable job, has a semi professional musical interest, is a little league coach, and yet some people think he is an obvious drug addict, or is dealing drugs, or into other outright criminal activities.. I know everyone dislikes the guy, but c'mon, he is just too busy to be a meth cooker or a crack head!

I think people are making that connection because of his rather cold demeanor during the 911 call. If that wasn't caused by drugs, then it's a bit chilling.

And maybe he isn't a druggie or criminal, BUT . . . I've known some Little League baseball and softball coaches who were the biggest jerks I've ever known. I've seen guys blow up at their own kids in front of basically the whole town because of one mistake on the field. They humiliate their families and other parents, and they push their own kids ahead of other kids on the team, meanwhile humiliating those same kids. There's no way to get around these types because they usually want to run the show and there's nowhere else to play baseball without driving 20 miles.

Busy or not, being a coach shouldn't rule out any suspicions.

 

[cluciano63]

You are not alone hunzey!!

..Im right here with ya...

As far as the prior CPS contact in December ..today's innformation that the issue was not serious in nature and had NOTHING TO DO WITH ..NOR IN ANY WAY INVOLVED ISA.. it is a detail IMO that's been glossed over.. jmo tho!

True, but since we don't know what it DID have to do with, it could still be something that showed one parent or the other to have a temper, for example. Maybe this instance was not against Isabel, but it had to involve a child, or children, IMO. Again, just an example.

 

[gliving]

The windows are odd in that house as there is a full size window on the back of the house, of which, is being classified as the Den. There are also the small windows for the room that is next to Isa but at the front of the house, same side as Isa's bedroom.

The picture below shows the two small windows on each end of the house, with Isa's bedroom in the middle.

The second picture is the back of the house, Den side, showing a full window.

I would love to see a picture of the door coming from the Den to the backyard.

I've seen video of the back yard looking toward the patio. I think it was on NG when her reporter was describing how one could hop the wall. When it was filmed, on the covered patio was a big picnic type table pushed up against the wall of the den door making that door unusable. Don't know if the table was placed in the same way April 20.

 

[kai]

In my worst case scenario, I can see a possibility for domestic violence or abuse of some sort, though i don't feel it in my gut. What I have trouble with is that this guy has a respectable job, has a semi professional musical interest, is a little league coach, and yet some people think he is an obvious drug addict, or is dealing drugs, or into other outright criminal activities.. I know everyone dislikes the guy, but c'mon, he is just too busy to be a meth cooker or a crack head!

Drugs can also be pharmaceutical drugs. There are many, many high functioning people addicted to them.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I AGREE. I would think a 14 yr old and a 10 yr old would need the bathroom more than a 6 yr old would. They will shower and stuff all on their own, obviously. But she will still need a bit of supervision with those things. It just seems odd that TWO older kids would have a smaller room.

But she's the only daughter. My sister in law had her own bathroom and walk in closet and the two older boys shared a smaller room. Seems normal to me. JMO

 

[katydid23]

You are not alone hunzey!!

..Im right here with ya...

As far as the prior CPS contact in December ..today's innformation that the issue was not serious in nature and had NOTHING TO DO WITH ..NOR IN ANY WAY INVOLVED ISA.. it is a detail IMO that's been glossed over.. jmo tho!

But I am not sure how to take that info, that it was NOT related to Isa. Imo, ANYTHING that would bring CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES to her home, has got to be related to her in some way. Even if it is about her brother it is still related to her. I suppose it could have been about ANOTHER kid all together, and they needed to talk to one of the boys about it, perhaps. But I am still not convinced it was not connected to this situation, jmo.