GUILTY OK - Patrick Misner for raping 4yo girl, Sapulpa, 2012

Issues with DNA testing? They have this guy sitting in jail under arrest.
I am not just going to assume this guy is guilty because I haven't seen any evidence as of yet that it's in fact so.

I thought she was saying that in getting the tests done in a timely manner...but I guess we will have to wait and see. It sure is taking a long time...I hope they have other evidence too.
 
At this point, I really don't believe Tommy did this. If he didn't, I do hope LE is attempting to find whoever did.
 
If his DNA does not match then LE will be way behind on catching the suspect.
 
:steamed:


A review of news that was reported when Braden was arrested. I intentionally did not include the news that reported the little 4-yr old girl was bloody from the waist down.

http://www.newson6.com/story/173756...est-in-assault-of-4-year-old-girl-last-friday

"Upon further investigation, it became apparent to us that we didn't believe the story was truthful," said Captain John Davis with the Creek County Sheriff's Office.

When investigators first questioned the girl, they say she was too traumatized to tell them what happened. After she had surgery and the initial shock wore off, deputies say the 4-year-old was able to tell them things that led to suspect Braden.

http://www.news9.com/story/17375618...est-in-assault-of-4-year-old-girl-last-friday

Upon further investigation, it became apparent to us that we didn't believe the story was truthful," said Captain John Davis with the Creek County Sheriff's Office.

When investigators first questioned the girl, they say she was too traumatized to tell them what happened. After she had surgery and the initial shock wore off, deputies say the 4-year-old was able to tell them things that led to suspect Braden.


:cop: :detective: :cop:

This link is from the Criminal Investigation Division of the Creek County Sheriff's Office. It identifies that a member of their unit has received intensive training in interviewing children.

http://creekcountysheriff.com/staff-divisions/criminal-investigation-division


The MSM link shown below is not one that I had read before, even though it is dated April 11. It has several items that are very interesting.

http://www.sapulpaheraldonline.com/articles/2012/04/11/news/doc4f85cc9c91d52050866690.txt

"Many community members expressed their concerns for the victim, her healing, and well-being."

"They were also relieved when the arrest was made."

"A special forencsics investigator interviewed the girl as soon as she was able to work with the investigators."

There is no word yet whether or not the child's mother will face any charges.
 
I am hoping they have more than the testimony of a badly frightened and horribly injured four year old girl. I know she would not lie, but she could easily be mistaken. Especially if she knew the only man in the home was her stepdad. If so, she would assume an intruder would also be daddy. That is how 4 yr olds think quite often.

I am just not sure that they have the right man. I could easily be wrong, as I have been many times. But I wish there was DNA to back this arrest up.
 
We already talked about a guy who spend years in OH prison because his young relative misidentified him as the perp. It took years to get him out of there, and only after DNA evidence linked someone else to the crime.
A child that young, who was terrified and traumatized, could easily be confused.
 
I am hoping they have more than the testimony of a badly frightened and horribly injured four year old girl. I know she would not lie, but she could easily be mistaken. Especially if she knew the only man in the home was her stepdad. If so, she would assume an intruder would also be daddy. That is how 4 yr olds think quite often.

I am just not sure that they have the right man. I could easily be wrong, as I have been many times. But I wish there was DNA to back this arrest up.

The credibility of any 4-yr old child's testimony depends on the maturity, environment, intelligence, and communication capabilities of the individual child. :cow:

The use of puppets to communicate with children and video testimony for court proceedings is also available.
 
:wave:

This is a very informative article concerning the use of puppets in helping children understand how to communicate about any kind of abuse. I found this in a 4-pg newsletter which is published by the Tulsa County D.A.'s office, the link below.

This article (page 3) in the newsletter has a great photo of the puppets, but I have not yet been successful in loading photos. If anyone would be willing to post the article again with the photo, it would be great!!!


http://www.da.tulsacounty.org/Forms/Newsletter/V4_2_spring11.pdf


V O L U M E 4 , I S S U E 2, P A G E 3

The children watched and listened intently as the Kids on the
Block Puppets performed at their Tulsa elementary school
last fall, talking about the difficult subject of sexual and physical
abuse. Puppet Joanne told her puppet friend Stephen how she
was confused and afraid when her mother’s boyfriend touched her
in the places her bathing suit covers.

“At first I thought he was nice and I was happy because he took us
places and stuff,” the puppet said. “But later I felt bad about what he
was doing to me.” The puppet said she finally got the courage to tell
a trusted adult what happened to her. “Telling was the hardest thing
I ever had to do, but it was the best thing I ever did!” the puppet
proclaimed.
.
After the show, the children asked the puppets questions about how
to handle certain situations. Later, they were asked to write letters
to the puppets, telling them what they learned and if they had problems
they needed help solving. Sixteen children at that one school
told the puppets and their school counselor about sexual abuse that
happened to them. The children were referred to the Child Abuse
Network and criminal investigations began. Services were provided
to children and families where appropriate and criminal charges filed
where evidence warranted.

Assistant District Attorney Ben Fu prepared to prosecute one of the
cases where the stepfather of one girl had been molesting the child
for years, He said he was amazed when he saw the letter the child
had written to the puppet describing what he had done to her in her
8-year-old words.

As a prosecutor, he had seen how difficult it was for children to
speak of abuse. Fu said he planned to use the letter that the girl
wrote to the puppets in court.

“I felt if a jury saw this little girl’s letter to the puppets, they would
put the perpetrator in prison for a long, long time,” he said.
Faced with that and other evidence, the defendant pled guilty to four
counts of child sexual abuse and was sentenced to 25 years in prison.
The girl did not have to testify about the abuse in front of her stepfather
and a courtroom of strangers. She was given access to counseling
and services.

After securing the plea, Fu asked the puppeteers from Tulsa’s Parent
Child Center what he needed to do to see that their puppet show
was presented in every school in the county.“This puppet show, this
simple puppet show, has a major impact. It gives children the courage
and the knowledge to tell what is happening to them,” Fu said.

The puppets are one of many programs the Parent Child Center of
Tulsa offers in our community to prevent child abuse and neglect.
Fifty shows about sexual and physical abuse were presented at
elementary schools last year, to teach children how to get help by
telling a trusted adult.

Puppets Teach Kids How To Get Help, Stop Sexual and Physical Abuse

One school counselor wrote of the impact the program had at her
school. “Your presentation was perfect. Second graders were totally
focused and engaged. One of my second graders talked to me after
the presentation about a sexual abuse situation. Your presentation
provided the medium for this child to share and for me to take the
necessary action to provide appropriate follow up and support for
the child.”

Another school counselor wrote: “There was such an impact, you
could hear a pin drop and many students came to see me later to
discuss physical and sexual abuse they had experienced . . . I am
already scheduling the puppets return next fall . . .”

To schedule a Kids on the Block puppet presentation at a school,
camp or other venue, or to learn about how to volunteer as a puppeteer,
contact Jacque Gallegos at the Parent Child Center,918-599-7999 or
Jgallegos@parentchildcenter.org
Major funding for the Kids on the Block puppet presentation is
provided by the Sherman Smith Family Foundation.


WWW . D A . T U L S A C O U N T Y . O R G
 
That child in Ohio didn't "misidentify" her uncle... she was asked if the guy looked like anyone and she said he looked a bit like her Uncle.

When a traumatic event happens one might not remember it.
So they might assume the last person they remember seeing is the person that hurt them.

There was also another case where the wife identified her white husband as her attacker... and it was part of a black serial rapist's crimes.
Her husband said bye to her and then she woke up in a hospital... husband must have done it.

Stepdad puts her to bed... next thing she knows she's hurt and bloody... must have been stepdad that did it.
Because who else would a 4 year think would be in the house?

Without DNA evidence, or a spontaneous confession... I am not believing Tommy did it either. :twocents:
 
She did claim it was her uncle (even if she wasn't always consistent in her claims it was enough to make her uncle a suspect).
She also testified at trial and that's what put the uncle in prison, because there was no other evidence (since he was in fact innocent of the crime).

"In shock, Brooke's parents took her to a hospital for a thorough examination and there she expressed some doubt about whom she had seen. Then she revised her account again and said it was Uncle Clarence — Clarence Elkins — who had killed her grandmother and hurt her. The police took her statement, and she affirmed it all again to the doctors and her relatives."

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/ff313_clarence_elkins/1_index.html
 
That child in Ohio didn't "misidentify" her uncle... she was asked if the guy looked like anyone and she said he looked a bit like her Uncle.

When a traumatic event happens one might not remember it.
So they might assume the last person they remember seeing is the person that hurt them.

There was also another case where the wife identified her white husband as her attacker... and it was part of a black serial rapist's crimes.
Her husband said bye to her and then she woke up in a hospital... husband must have done it.


Stepdad puts her to bed... next thing she knows she's hurt and bloody... must have been stepdad that did it.
Because who else would a 4 year think would be in the house?

Without DNA evidence, or a spontaneous confession... I am not believing Tommy did it either. :twocents:

BBM

Iirc, that was the case against the Marine husband and he served 14 years in prison for a crime he did not commit.

IMO
 
She did claim it was her uncle (even if she wasn't always consistent in her claims it was enough to make her uncle a suspect).
She also testified at trial and that's what put the uncle in prison, because there was no other evidence (since he was in fact innocent of the crime).

"In shock, Brooke's parents took her to a hospital for a thorough examination and there she expressed some doubt about whom she had seen. Then she revised her account again and said it was Uncle Clarence — Clarence Elkins — who had killed her grandmother and hurt her. The police took her statement, and she affirmed it all again to the doctors and her relatives."

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/ff313_clarence_elkins/1_index.html

But If remember correctly-the real perp looked just like her uncle-they could have been twins-I was shocked when I saw the perp's pic!!
 
But If remember correctly-the real perp looked just like her uncle-they could have been twins-I was shocked when I saw the perp's pic!!

I don't think the perp looks much like the uncle. He is also much younger.
 
I could have sworn I saw it on dateline or ID-they showed a pic of the real perp next to clarance & they looked just alike-I did look to see if I could find those pics-but they just show the perp after they booked him& shaved his head-but I will continue to look!
 
I could have sworn I saw it on dateline or ID-they showed a pic of the real perp next to clarance & they looked just alike-I did look to see if I could find those pics-but they just show the perp after they booked him& shaved his head-but I will continue to look!

There are photos of him in the link that I provided. I suppose they look alike as much as one white male looks like the other white male. I personally do not see any striking resemblances between them. There is also an age difference.
 
There are photos of him in the link that I provided. I suppose they look alike as much as one white male looks like the other white male. I personally do not see any striking resemblances between them. There is also an age difference.

That photo of Earl is not the one I am looking for-that is after his head was shaved-but I guess this thread about the little 4 yr..sorry to have jumped in your convo--I'll go away now!!!
 
Going back on topic, so far it appears that no physical evidence have been presented. There are some issues with DNA tests-which is not a good thing, I presume.
Could be just because the tests are not done yet, but how long does it take and why was DA not able to get in contact with DNA testing lab?
 
That photo of Earl is not the one I am looking for-that is after his head was shaved-but I guess this thread about the little 4 yr..sorry to have jumped in your convo--I'll go away now!!!

I think your post IS on topic. The discussion was about the child possibly misidentifying the perp, it's happened before. I hate to see posters leave the threads-this is an open thread-not a select few people's discussion.
If LE are only going by what she said and nothing else, that is concerning.
Unfortunately we don't know what the police know right now.

I can't imagine what the problem with the DNA could be.
 
I think your post IS on topic. The discussion was about the child possibly misidentifying the perp, it's happened before. I hate to see posters leave the threads-this is an open thread-not a select few people's discussion.
If LE are only going by what she said and nothing else, that is concerning.
Unfortunately we don't know what the police know right now.

I can't imagine what the problem with the DNA could be.

I agree with you on both points. I think it is up to the mods to do any chastising of posters.

I always do worry in cases like this regarding the evidence vs witnesses. However, I'm with you in that it should be pretty simple. Either the child carried foreign DNA or his. That would clear it up for me!
 

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