*DEVELOPING*CO Shooting at Movie Theater #3

[shadowraiths]

Supreme Court is asked to find that insanity defense is a constitutional right ( link )
By Robert Barnes
Washington Post, July 22, 2012

There’s no doubt John Joseph Delling knew what he was doing. His carefully planned 2007 crime spree lasted weeks, covered 6,500 miles and culminated in two people dead and one seriously wounded.

He had his reasons, too. Delling, then 21, had become “a type of Jesus,” he later explained, and the men he attacked, two of them former classmates he had not seen in years, were stealing his “energy.” An MRI of his brain would have revealed the damage the men had already caused, he told authorities.

“I had to defend myself,” he said.

[...]

But Delling’s case presents an intriguing legal question as well. He committed his crimes in Idaho, which is one of only four states — Kansas, Montana and Utah are the others — in which a defendant may not use insanity as a defense to criminal charges.

[...]

All states and the federal government once allowed the insanity defense. But that changed with the public outrage over John W. Hinckley Jr.’s acquittal for reasons of insanity in his assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan in 1981.

Many states and the federal government reacted by shifting the burden of proving insanity to the defense. But five states, including Nevada, abolished the insanity plea.

[...]

Despite its prominence in television crime dramas, the insanity defense is rarely invoked and is successful only about a quarter of the time, according to the most widely quoted study of its use.

[...]

The trial judge found that Delling did not have the “ability to appreciate the wrongfulness of his conduct,” but the judge still sentenced him to life imprisonment. Fisher said he is in solitary confinement in a maximum-security prison.

Finding someone like Delling not guilty because of insanity does not mean allowing him among the general public, Fisher said, but confining him to a mental institution where he can receive treatment.

Idaho did not respond to Delling’s petition, hoping that the justices will continue to defer to the state’s supreme court.​

 

[February]

I wanted to state that your theory is the BEST one I've read on here. I think he had to tell the FBI about his package to rub it in, that he is "better" than they (the University) are, that their system "sucks", etc, etc. It could be that he was going to gun down people regardless of what the school did, but I have a feeling that he couldn't meet the academic demands of that level of University and he could have felt pressure to succeed from his parents and rather than blame himself, he turned it outwards and blamed everyone else. JMO

ived been trying to track what's going on days before the purchase of the gun. I made a timeline on the previous thread and posted school calendar . There are conflicting informations that the University is coming up on the news based on their calendar and what they released. June 4 is the start of the Summer Semester. Why would JH still have to go oral exam on June 7 when the final deadline of grades for the Spring Semester are supposed to be done on May. Some things here are not right or i might be thinking too much.

I am trying to understand "why" and I am not giving him an excuse but based on my theory, i think JH is smarter than what other people think. He knows what he is doing, he planned it and he is about to show the University that he can get away with this by pleading insanity but the University has to pay up a lot of people. He tried to kill as many as he wants so the University will be responsible for all these deaths.

Education was his life and when they took it away from him, things got worst

 

[cece5300]

Originally Posted by February
He could have sent that to someone he is very close with or he could even create a website for it but he didnt. Look at where the notebook is still up to now--- still in the mail room . JH has to tell FBI about it! what is his purpose for doing that?

Do you think he did it in a way as to say "Look! See? I tried to get help!" (Not that it would be a good excuse, but maybe he's trying to set up some kind of 'cry for help' defense?

 

[February]

Do you think he did it in a way as to say "Look! See? I tried to get help!" (Not that it would be a good excuse, but maybe he's trying to set up some kind of 'cry for help' defense?

yes He is trying to set the University up for his own insanity defense IMO.
He could have reach to his mother who is a nurse if he was really sick and having some problems. IMO.

 

[Sonya610]

Then where is the cause and effect? To claim that something causes something else, doesn't there have to be a correlation? In this case between people with brain tumors and murderous rampages? In reality there are many people with all kind of tumors that don't kill anyone.

Studies have shown violent sociopaths often have less gray matter in certain areas of the brain used for impulse control and I believe empathy.

Head blows/injury can also damage certain parts of the brain causing behavior changes. Bobby Joe Long was a perfectly normal guy turned serial killer after a motorcycle accident, he woke up in the hospital and started fantasizing about raping women, which turned into serial murder.

Brain tumors could effect the same areas of the brain depending on the location of the tumor. I doubt this is a brain tumor BUT tumors of that sort can cause aberrant behavior. I realize it is easier to just say "evil monster" as then no sympathy is required.

After diagnosis and treatment for a brain tumor, a person often may not be the same. Changes in behavior and thinking occur in the majority of patients at some point during their treatment. The extent of changes can vary considerably from person to person. Changes can be as subtle as mild forgetfulness or as dramatic as deep depression or abusive, violent outbursts.

http://www.brainsciencefoundation.o...alityBehavioralChanges/tabid/283/Default.aspx

 

[SmoothOperator]

Your Dad is right. IMO -- I saw it in his first photo.
but the question he asked the Jail worker was obvious disassociation.

NO ACT… but to the layman it is all an act.

above bbm..this just is NOT ACCURATE! my sister is a psychiatrist and when i say she has dealt with severe untreated mental illness for a large part of her 20 years practicing...i mean severe!

in her opinion it is very much just as likely, if not more with the info that we have, that this maniac is acting!..he had zero history of mental illness and quite likely there are zero severe mental issues such as DID..

sure he may suffer from some issue but any professional worth their salt knows damn well that there is zilch public knowledge of anything indicating debilitating mental disturbances..and some of whats being suggested is severe..nothing here substantiating such...

 

[jjenny]

ived been trying to track what's going on days before the purchase of the gun. I made a timeline on the previous thread and posted school calendar . There are conflicting informations that the University is coming up on the news based on their calendar and what they released. June 4 is the start of the Summer Semester. Why would JH still have to go oral exam on June 7 when the final deadline of grades for the Spring Semester are supposed to be done on May. Some things here are not right or i might be thinking too much.

I am trying to understand "why" and I am not giving him an excuse but based on my theory, i think JH is smarter than what other people think. He knows what he is doing, he planned it and he is about to show the University that he can get away with this by pleading insanity but the University has to pay up a lot of people. He tried to kill as many as he wants so the University will be responsible for all these deaths.

Education was his life and when they took it away from him, things got worst

As I understand it, this oral exam would not be based on one of his classes.
So it would be separate from the finals and thus could be in between semesters.

 

[songline]

Actually, Pax, I have seen just that. Endless posts about how he is insane, has a serious mental disorder, was on medication, was disheveled and babbling, showing significant signs to his family, school, etc., that he was insane and needed help, that his family knew he was ill, were afraid of him, begged him to get help, etc., all without the words, "I bet, " or "Maybe" or "What if" or even, "IMO".

These were accompanied by references to him as the "young man" and how the mentally ill cannot be held responsible for their actions.

I have seen several posts that excuse what he did as a product of a mental disorder the posters assume he has, either by creating evidence out of thin air or expanding on reports. For example, a staffer in a gun store felt he seemed a bit off or strange becomes "gun store owner was scared of [THE COWARD].

So yeah, people are not just discussing the possibility that this creep has a mental defect, they are stating it as if it is a fact and some posters are actually stating that he would bear no responsibility because he does not know right from wrong or cannot control his actions.

I, for one, don't appreciate that. I'd like to see a lot more assumptions and speculations prefaced with language that indicates it is an assumption or speculation and I don't like the general tone in some posts that a person with a mental problem is not responsible for their criminal conduct. That's an insult, IMO, to those who were murdered in Colorado, by a guy who planned for months.

You know I love you, but unless I missed it. I did not red anyone excusing this guy for having MI.
Unless I missed it Seems everyone wants him behind bars forever.

As far as; calling it MI - some of us do have a trained eye, while we can’t diagnose from TV or internet, what kind of MI - we can at least see MI clearly.
AS YOU ARE trained in the legal system. And would hope that we all say IMO – I will say it again in my STRONG opinion THIS GUY IS MI - I don’t know the extent of the illness. I just know there is something very definitely way off kilter. I make no apologies about that.

 

[February]

As I understand it, this oral exam would not be based on one of his classes.
So it would be separate from the finals and thus could be in between semesters.

Here is the timeline i created and all the school calendars on that page 74
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179526&page=74


and this is a very good link that is on there
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443295404577543400613112424.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

When classes ended in May, the students were required to pass a first-year test referred to as the "prelims." The school said students had to stand before three professors and answer questions.

Shortly after the tests were done, the classmate said, a neuroscience administrator took the group for drinks to tell them Mr. Holmes had dropped out. The administrator said she received a short resignation email from Mr. Holmes that didn't explain why. Some assumed he had gone back to California.

 

[joe2857]

As I understand it, this oral exam would not be based on one of his classes.
So it would be separate from the finals and thus could be in between semesters.

Yes, the oral exam would be a comprehensive exam that would be independent of his classes and his course grades. Also, graduate programs sometimes operate according to their own schedules rather than following the official university calendar.

 

[songline]

IMOIMOIMOIMO
He is the kids doctor
he had high risk pt
you check on your high risk pts who are spiraling out of control daily ..
this kid was falling for MONTHS .........................
peroid your ethical obligation .

We do not know that he was a high risk pts.
We do not know if he was ever diagnosed,
we do not know if he was as good as my daughter was in hiding it
(Many are great at evading) - it can take years to diagnose.

This Dr. could have been on vacation – just because the guy was failing
does not mean he is high risk anything.
I do not think the Dr. had any ethical obligation.

 

[StephanieW]

About the question someone had about the suspect saying that his car was also booby trapped a few pages ago... -

I didn't read this anywhere ... On friday morning it was all day news here ( from Colorado) so since I do not have a link at the moment I will say IMO...
That morning they did say the suspect told them that his car and apartment was booby trapped but nothing ( booby trap) was found in his car .

This is the reason I think he didnt tell them because he had a sudden change of heart after shooting up a theater , asking for a lawyer and playing paper bag puppets is IMO he let the booby trap thing slip and the police were not sure at that time if it was his car or apartment . I think it was him laughing and or wanting to know how they got there so fast . I do not for one second think he thought the booby trap wouldnt go as planned . I do not think he would have said a word if he thought it wouldnt have already been set off . Again this is all IMO.

 

[~n/t~]

My Theory is ...he was really mad on this University for his "failure" on the oral exam... he doesnt accept this so he didnt even formally complete his withdrawal. He wants the University to be liable for his next actions.
He sent the University a notebook detailing his work. The University could have open it , to prevent it but they didnt. JH tested the "mailing" process in the University so he requested multiple packages to be sent to him. He knows the flaw of the "mailroom" process. .... Now he sent his notebook, he knew that it will not get in time , he continued his evil work and then he will act insane... who is going to be responsible? The University

now with this "Notebook" , do we hear lawsuit against them for failure to respond fast to prevent a crime?.... sounds like VA tech problems before right?

Just think about it. It was JH who told FBI about this package - and the funny thing is the package is still in the mail room


The FBI recovered a package that apparently was mailed by James Eagan Holmes after the shooting suspect told investigators to look for the item on the University of Colorado Anschutz Medical Campus, a senior law enforcement official told NBC News on Wednesday.

The statement did provide general information about how mail is handled on campus.
"The University centrally receives mail from the United States Postal Service. The University then delivers the mail to the address on the Anschutz Medical Campus the same day it is received," the statement said. "The University's mail service is not open on Saturday. Saturday mail is sorted and delivered Monday morning. The University does not log or track mail/packages unless it requires a signature from the United States Postal Service."
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...used-aurora-shooter-leads-fbi-to-package?lite

If he was angry at the school then why not target whoever he felt wronged him at the school? Instead, he takes his anger out at movie goers?

Not discounting your theory, Feb. Just wondering what your thoughts are about the venue he chose. We've seen mass murders at schools by students, office or workplace (angry ex employee), etc etc.

 

[February]

Yes, the oral exam would be a comprehensive exam that would be independent of his classes and his course grades. Also, graduate programs sometimes operate according to their own schedules rather than following the official university calendar.

This exam is important for them to continue with the program. See the Link

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...ndling-james-holmes-withdrawal-205251926.html


Holmes dropped out of the program a few days after he took his first-year oral exam, which he reportedly failed..

Holmes took his oral exam, which is designed to test students' foundational knowledge before they continue the program, on June 7

 

[songline]

above bbm..this just is NOT ACCURATE! my sister is a psychiatrist and when i say she has dealt with severe untreated mental illness for a large part of her 20 years practicing...i mean severe!

in her opinion it is very much just as likely, if not more with the info that we have, that this maniac is acting!..he had zero history of mental illness and quite likely there are zero severe mental issues such as DID..

sure he may suffer from some issue but any professional worth their salt knows damn well that there is zilch public knowledge of anything indicating debilitating mental disturbances..and some of whats being suggested is severe..nothing here substantiating such...

Ask her how long it often takes to get a diagnosis.
so what if he was not diagnosed. it does not mean that he was sane.
NOT AN ACT and I stand by it.

What exactly he has that I do not know.

 

[KMouse]

He should have access to NOTHING in solitary confinement. He is there for his own protection first, but I'm sure they are trying to sweat him out.

He wanted it found and published for us viewers to see. Eventually, it may be, after the trial.

If he wanted it published then he should have sent it to media outlets on his way to the theatre. Or posted it on the internet.

I think he wanted it found now because it is part of his defense. Maybe this is all a game to him and he wants to trick the system into thinking he is legally insane.

 

[February]

If he was angry at the school then why not target whoever he felt wronged him at the school? Instead, he takes his anger out at movie goers?

Not discounting your theory, Feb. Just wondering what your thoughts are about the venue he chose. We've seen mass murders at schools by students, office or workplace (angry ex employee), etc etc.

He has to find a venue where he can use his insanity defense. He is a known fan of superheroes and Batman so this was the event he chose because he is familiar with it.

I do believe he wants to target more people with the number of ammunitions he has, but he was planning it where people will be caught of guard and they have no place to run. The more victims , the more liabilities this will go back on the University IMO.

Targeting the people who failed him directly is just a direct and obvious crime. He is finding a way on how to get away with this also.

and He didn' t choose the school as the venue because his access was already terminated since he withdrew too and doing there is too obvious

 

[jjenny]

This exam is important for them to continue with the program. See the Link

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout...ndling-james-holmes-withdrawal-205251926.html


Holmes dropped out of the program a few days after he took his first-year oral exam, which he reportedly failed..

Holmes took his oral exam, which is designed to test students' foundational knowledge before they continue the program, on June 7

But it's not a part of any official exam schedule. So they could have it in the beginning of the semester.

 

[~n/t~]

Actually, Pax, I have seen just that. Endless posts about how he is insane, has a serious mental disorder, was on medication, was disheveled and babbling, showing significant signs to his family, school, etc., that he was insane and needed help, that his family knew he was ill, were afraid of him, begged him to get help, etc., all without the words, "I bet, " or "Maybe" or "What if" or even, "IMO".

These were accompanied by references to him as the "young man" and how the mentally ill cannot be held responsible for their actions.

I have seen several posts that excuse what he did as a product of a mental disorder the posters assume he has, either by creating evidence out of thin air or expanding on reports. For example, a staffer in a gun store felt he seemed a bit off or strange becomes "gun store owner was scared of [THE COWARD].

So yeah, people are not just discussing the possibility that this creep has a mental defect, they are stating it as if it is a fact and some posters are actually stating that he would bear no responsibility because he does not know right from wrong or cannot control his actions.

I, for one, don't appreciate that. I'd like to see a lot more assumptions and speculations prefaced with language that indicates it is an assumption or speculation and I don't like the general tone in some posts that a person with a mental problem is not responsible for their criminal conduct. That's an insult, IMO, to those who were murdered in Colorado, by a guy who planned for months.

Would you say the same about the experts discussing this case in the news? Frankly, I don't see us discussing the "why" as being any different than what is currently being shown all across new stations and online. Experts giving their opinions. Of course, nobody can give an absolute diagnosis. Nobody is privy to that information yet. We discuss and throw out possible theories.

Personally, I have not seen anyone excusing what he has done.

 

[vjlaw]

I have to wonder if his final oral exam sounded anything like his answering machine message the shooting range guy described.