The state Rests in The State v. Jodi Arias: break in trial until 28 January 2013 #12

[minor4th]

They are going to have a very long road to wind if they try to claim this "heinous" murder was in any way shape or form "humane". (quoting the killer, herself)

Agreed, and the judge has already ruled that the cruelty qualification can be met whether he was stabbed first or shot first. However, I think it makes a difference whether she went with the intent to kill him quickly with a gun or whether she intentionally made him suffer by choosing to stab him repeatedly before finishing it off with a shot to the head.

Question: Is the finding of extreme cruelty part of the jury charge? And who determines sentencing -- judge or jury? What I'm getting at is if the jury makes the finding of extreme cruelty, is there discretion to sentence to life or death penalty? If anyone knows ...

 

[Quester]

The story I made up in my head is a lot like this...

I think she went there to convince him to take her to Cancun. She begged, used sex, threatened to kill herself, and hurled insults, tried everything.

The murder was premeditated in the legal sense, but not in the sense that a sane person would go about planning a murder. If you were planning a murder, you would try to to think and plan for all worst-case scenarios so that you would never get caught, right? For her the murder scenario was one possible fantasy swirling around in that sea of madness that's her mind. She had not committed murder when she got there.

The cluster B's are horrible at planning and given to self-destructive impulses.

The voice of crazy inside JA's head: He wouldn't listen. I tried to save him, but he wouldn't agree to my demands. Why wouldn't he just do as I asked?

{This is my tale of fiction}

I see what you're saying but she did do quite a bit of methodical planning so it seems (eg stole gun, rented car, dyed hair, cash purchases, cell phone off, ?surprise visit?, etc). I think the actual murder did not go as easily and/or as cleanly as she had envisioned and also caused her delay in getting to Ryan's. JMO

BBM - I too think that had TA offered her some glimpse of hope (eg relationship restart, cancel Cancun with Mimi or offer to take JA, etc) there might have been a very different outcome that day ... and they may have safely continued until the next threat of relationship termination or if JA set her sights on someone else. JMVHO

 

[Sweetiemom]

They are going to have a very long road to wind if they try to claim this "heinous" murder was in any way shape or form "humane". (quoting the killer, herself)

Is any murder really humane?

 

[katiecoolady]

Question: Is the finding of extreme cruelty part of the jury charge? And who determines sentencing -- judge or jury? What I'm getting at is if the jury makes the finding of extreme cruelty, is there discretion to sentence to life or death penalty? If anyone knows ...

In AZ, sentences must be handed down by juries now.

To meet the DP, it has to qualify for the following criteria: cruel, heinous and depraved. All (which all seem like variations on the same word in a way) have distinct definitions. I don't remember what they all are but the "cruel" aspect relates to the amount of suffering of the victim. So I think that's where the "which came first" weapon discussion comes in. For me though, I think it's answered suffieciently through the defensive wounds on his hands.

He was naked, in a shower, he clearly saw a lethal attack coming his way from someone who was supposed to care about him. Who he'd let in to his home. I think that qualifies enough for "suffering".

I do think though the felony murder alternative is dicey and will likely get slapped down when we get back to trial.

And yes there will be a sentencing phase, that's like it's own mini trial, where it will be decided if this qualifies for the DP or she will get LWOP.

 

[lil_buddy]

Interesting article...
"Borderline Personality and Criminality"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2790397/

 

[CarolinaMoon]

that's a problem for them, for sure. it's very obvious that's their strategy though----the remove the cruelty by claiming he was mortally wounded right away and didn't suffer that much.

somehow, i doubt very much the jury will be left believing 'oh. i get it! well, it's not so bad then.' no way!!

The big problem with that is that Travis was stabbed while very much alive and on the move. He exited the shower, moved around the bathroom clockwise and to the sink where he was standing. Walking or crawling, he made it to the entrance to the master bedroom before having his throat slit.

There is just too much blood evidence all over the bathroom for him to have been dead.

 

[Snoopy1]

I see what you're saying but she did do quite a bit of methodical planning so it seems (eg stole gun, rented car, dyed hair, cash purchases, cell phone off, ?surprise visit?, etc). I think the actual murder did not go as easily and/or as cleanly as she had envisioned and also caused her delay in getting to Ryan's. JMO

BBM - I too think that had TA offered her some glimpse of hope (eg relationship restart, cancel Cancun with Mimi or offer to take JA, etc) there might have been a very different outcome that day ... and they may have safely continued until the next threat of relationship termination or if JA set her sights on someone else. JMVHO

BBM - I agree with you - but I have to wonder (given what DID happen that day) - would she have ended up killing him at another point in time anyway? I personally think she would have. JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Is any murder really humane?

I think there are worst methods of murder.

Shooting someone in the head would be more humane, imo. I would much rather be shot than stabbed repeatedly and then have my throat cut ear to ear.

I think knife murders and bludgeoning murders are two of the most gruesome and heinous.

IMO

 

[LegalEye]

Just a thought and JMO but... thinking back to the photos and listening to the 48 hours interview, doesn't it seem as though, Jodi took photos of TA post mortum?

 

[txbluesman]

For conversation's sake, here is a side view of the frontal lobe and a view of the sinuses. The bullet went in just above the right eyebrow and ended up inside the left cheek.

I think the blood in the sink was from a profuse nosebleed immediately after being shot. He might not have even gone down.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The big problem with that is that Travis was stabbed while very much alive and on the move. He exited the shower, moved around the bathroom clockwise and to the sink where he was standing. Walking or crawling, he made it to the entrance to the master bedroom before having his throat slit.

There is just too much blood evidence all over the bathroom for him to have been dead.

And I dont think one juror is going to believe Travis was in an attack mode either when all his blood was being shed everywhere there.

They are going to visualize Travis trying desperately to get away from JA...the slasher, imo.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

For conversation's sake, here is a side view of the frontal lobe and a view of the sinuses. The bullet went in just above the right eyebrow and ended up inside the left cheek.

I think the blood in the sink was from a profuse nosebleed immediately after being shot. He might not have even gone down.

The doctor said he would be coughing up blood from the stab wound.I found that much more plausible knowing he bled out everywhere from the bathroom and down the hallway. It truly was a blood bath and we all know when all the arteries have been completely severed the blood will spew out of the gaping wound. Its just like cutting a line filled with compressed air in it. The air escapes with force because until then it was under pressure.

IMO

 

[Quester]

I see what you're saying but she did do quite a bit of methodical planning so it seems (eg stole gun, rented car, dyed hair, cash purchases, cell phone off, ?surprise visit?, etc). I think the actual murder did not go as easily and/or as cleanly as she had envisioned and also caused her delay in getting to Ryan's. JMO

BBM - I too think that had TA offered her some glimpse of hope (eg relationship restart, cancel Cancun with Mimi or offer to take JA, etc) there might have been a very different outcome that day ... and they may have safely continued until the next threat of relationship termination or if JA set her sights on someone else. JMVHO

BBM - I agree with you - but I have to wonder (given what DID happen that day) - would she have ended up killing him at another point in time anyway? I personally think she would have. JMO

I agree with you and stated: "... and they may have safely continued until the next threat of relationship termination or if JA set her sights on someone else. JMVHO"

No telling what would have happened in the future and/or whether or not TA would have been the focus of her intentions, whatever those might have been, or if she would have eventually found a new love interest.

 

[KMouse]

snipped:
I think the blood in the sink was from a profuse nosebleed immediately after being shot. He might not have even gone down.

I think the aspirated blood was from being stabbed repeatedly in the back, side and chest and Travis' lungs and airway filling with blood.

 

[KatFish]

For conversation's sake, here is a side view of the frontal lobe and a view of the sinuses. The bullet went in just above the right eyebrow and ended up inside the left cheek.

I think the blood in the sink was from a profuse nosebleed immediately after being shot. He might not have even gone down.

I agree with you. I have never thought he was stabbed first.

 

[human]

This is what I think also. The "honeymoon" on "in love" phase of a new relationship usually lasts 9 - 18 months and THEN the issues start to come out. As someone posted days ago, in five short months their relationship got very intense very quickly. Most couples are on their best behavior for at least 3 months and stay in the "in love" period for 9, 12, or 18 months before ugly or uncomfortable things start to happen. That's when the "work" of the relationship begins. How much abuse could she endured in 5 short months especially since they did not live together?

In no way do I not believe Jodi is some kind of weird monster.

One of the signs that you should watch out for in a relationship is if it goes too fast and that usually the man gives you lots of gifts and is too " loving" right away.

Abusers do not start out being abusive. They have to trap the victim first. Then comes the abuse and then the apologies in a never ending circle

 

[txbluesman]

I think the aspirated blood was from being stabbed repeatedly in the back, side and chest and Travis' lungs and airway filling with blood.

I'd like to go along with you, but then the questions still remain:

When did she shoot him (don't forget the angle of entry)?

If it was late in the series of events, why did she shoot him then?

You're going to commit murder. You've never done this before, but you watch TV. You have a gun and a knife. Which do you use first?

:dunno:

 

[Linda7NJ]

almost as if it's travis's fault for not just dying right away. it's HIS fault she had to stab him all those times.

almost laughable but i've seen DA's get away with worse.

That's the way Jodi feels about it. Psychopaths never accept responsibility ... Unless they feel it will benefit them. She does believe its Travis's fault he's dead.

IMO


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[kscornfed]

The big problem with that is that Travis was stabbed while very much alive and on the move. He exited the shower, moved around the bathroom clockwise and to the sink where he was standing. Walking or crawling, he made it to the entrance to the master bedroom before having his throat slit.

There is just too much blood evidence all over the bathroom for him to have been dead.

oh, i know that. just saying they want to somehow diminish his suffering while at the same time making him a huge threat to her. ridiculous but her whole defense is ridiculous to me.

 

[kscornfed]

In no way do I not believe Jodi is some kind of weird monster.

One of the signs that you should watch out for in a relationship is if it goes too fast and that usually the man gives you lots of gifts and is too " loving" right away.

Abusers do not start out being abusive. They have to trap the victim first. Then comes the abuse and then the apologies in a never ending circle

i think you just described HER. i think one clear sign is converting to TA's religion after a mere 2 months of dating. who does that? that's a pretty big leap after such a short time.