CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #3

[Eggs5864]

I don't know if someone posted this already (I unfortunately lost track in the thread...have been following it for days but it is so lengthy!! And it keeps jumping threads!)

I have a theory, totally out of the blue, but it would tie things together as well as solve some of the difficult problems of:

1) How hard it would be to get a dead body into that tank
2) How incredibly unlikely it would've been that Elisa got in the tank willingly
3) How, if it was not willing, she didn't have scrapes/abrasions/bruises from being forced in

First of all: surmise that she was either lured to the roof, or simply wanted to go to the roof to be adventurous/see the sunset, etc.

What if she met someone up there-- if it was someone who had lured her, they may have seen her Tumblr or other social media (it wasn't that hard for us to find), and therefore knew she was travelling alone and knew she was on medication and/or could be viewed as mentally unstable.

What if that person sexually assaulted her, and then forced her at gunpoint or knifepoint to get into the tank on her own to destroy evidence?

They said they found no obvious physical trauma to the body-- sexual assault would not necessarily leave behind trauma unless it was done violently. In any rape case, victims are immediately told that they cannot shower or use the bathroom because water destroys evidence, evidence needed to convict a suspect and prove a case.

What better way to get rid of any possible incriminating DNA than to make someone crawl into a gigantic chlorinated water tank?

Once she was in there, depending on the water level and if her murderer put the lid back on, she probably would not have been able to get back out. I'm a petite girl like her, and I really am not sure I would have the upper body strength to pull myself back out a hole that size, especially if the water level were low. Add to that she was naked and likely freezing it if it happened at 2 or 3am...death by exposure and/or drowning would follow. In a way, I hope she was dead before she got into the tank, because that would be a horrible way to die. It makes me so sad thinking about it.

Moreso, it would explain why she was naked and why she was floating face-up... after treading water, you would try to float to survive, until you finally succumbed to cold or fatigue and drowned.

A final chilling thought would be that the graffiti was done by the perpetrator that night... some kind of "bragging rights." Someone translated it into something like, "Perfect C-word," or "Obedient C-Word." Wouldn't that hold a horrible connotation if the perpetrator had indeed violated Elisa and then forced her to her own death?

The worst part of all these scenarios are those who think she did it because she was "on drugs" or "mentally ill." I just do not see that happening, for a number of reasons, but I see an intelligent killer using that information to their advantage, if they wanted to stage an "accident" or "suicide."

Let me know if there are any thoughts, and thanks so much for everyone contributing. Lots of very smart people on here, and I dearly hope we can bring justice to Elisa. What happened to her was beyond horrible and if it was a homicide it needs to come to light.

 

[FiveFelines]

I've been avoiding speculating too much on the video because it can be interpreted so many different ways and may not even be directly related to her demise. The glasses thing continues to bother me, though, because I think there are just too many unknowns about the state of her vision without her glasses.

Assuming, however, that Elisa couldn't see well without them (the reason given by many posters as to why she leans in so close and pushes most of the middle row of buttons), consider this:

If she was not staying on the floor she is shown on (14, 15, or whatever), she had to get up there. If she can't see well without her glasses (enough to have to guess what floor she's going to by pressing an entire row of buttons), then how did she get upstairs?

Did she do the same thing on whatever floor she started from? Seems unlikely, especially since many people think she looks confused about why the elevator doesn't move. If she'd been through this once, you'd think she wouldn't look befuddled.

She could have walked, but how likely is it that she walked up that many flights of stairs, especially if she can't see well?

Or, she came up to the floor she's on with someone else.

That leads me to three theories:

1. She can't see without her glasses and came upstairs with someone who later left her to figure out how to get back by herself. If you believe this though, doesn't it seem strange that she doesn't feel around or linger over the buttons as you might do if your vision was blurred? Instead, she goes right to the buttons and (both times) pushes them very methodically.

2. She came up with someone else and is trying to "hold" the elevator for them.

3. She can see fine (or well enough) without her glasses and is leaning close/pressing all the middle buttons for another reason, either as a joke/elevator tag/game, because she's losing touch with reality, because she's sleepwalking or under the influence of something, or to try to throw someone off her trail. (Yet her behavior later in the video doesn't seem scared.)

Any thoughts?

 

[Qrious]

I know i know,..mbut this is not realy my field of expertice (to blabber about cults and what not) .there are somethings i only heared about as in urban legend. To me it never occured things like this could realy exist or have active followers, besides being in some cheap b-movie horror flick,,...

me claiming these things on a public forum as this one makes me feel a bit awkward! As in many will think what a fruitcake. I mean im not even realy religous and i dont believe in superstitious evil. But this case just rocked my world, i feel like im in a book of Dan Brown!

But i cant just keep it to myself, ill go crzy

So, what i meant was,..

Invisible light = illuminatie, those enlightend but invisible.
Scientology church is heavily based on Aleister Crowleys works
The triangular logo of invisible light is another coincidence i hope

O gawddd

Saw that you mentioned you felt like you were in a book of Dan Brown. Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code came to my mind too when I, in my attempt to solve the puzzle of Elisa's repeated pressing of the floor nos. 14, 10, 7 and 4, googled this: "14 10 7 4 significance".

The google result startled me. It showed 'What is the meaning of water in John 4:14?' (Bolding as in actual google result.)

Quickly, I checked out my bible verses John 4:14, 10 and 7 and was absolutely stunned. For those here interested to know, these are the exact wordings of the verses from my NKJV Bible:

John 4 - Christ Witnesses to the Woman at the Well

4:7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.”

4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Just for clarification, I am not trying to throw in a religious angle here as religion is kind of sensitive. I myself am an open-minded free thinker even though I read the bible. But I thought I should share this very interesting discovery I made which adds to the already many mysteries of this very intriguing case.

 

[mjak]

If you look to the left when she is standing outside of the elevator and begins to make those weird motions look at her hair when she gets back in... Her hair was being pulled by someone who was out of sight of the camera... Those motions were from her struggling.. not her being on dope! Check it out and if you think we're right spread the word. It was amurder


there is somebody else there. Look at 2:24 mark on the full video. When she turns left to leave in front of the elevator there is another foot there that turns and follows her. Who's foot is that ?

Somebody else was there with Elisa.

Elisa Lam Video - YouTube

I believe I am seeing what you are referring to but it is at the 2:29 mark. After Elisa turns around and exits the screen there appears the top of a dark shoe that turns around too. I am not 100% sure that is not her other foot. Although, at one point it seems if that was her other foot it would be facing the wrong direction. Not the way someone would step. It could be another person. A person who knew there were no camera's in the halls just at the elevator... Good catch.

Mjak

 

[noodled1]

3. She can see fine (or well enough) without her glasses and is leaning close/pressing all the middle buttons for another reason, either as a joke/elevator tag/game, because she's losing touch with reality, because she's sleepwalking or under the influence of something, or to try to throw someone off her trail. (Yet her behavior later in the video doesn't seem scared.)

Any thoughts?

Good thoughts, I like number 3 or some version of it... We don't even know if she needed glasses. Lot's of kids running around today with glasses on that do nothing to improve your vision, just a fashion statement.



I'm also of the notion as I said earlier a page or so back that she's not under duress in the video.

 

[houndstooth]

I believe I see what you are talking about but it is on 2:29 as she turns left and is no longer visible it appears a dark shoe turns after her. Good catch!

It seems to me to be her own left foot..

I watched this video several times. There are dual elevators.
She must have just entered the one who's door opened first.
But, SHE seems to be causing the door to remain opened.
I can fathom no reason for hitting several floors buttons before
hitting the HOLD DOOR button.

When she repeats this same sequence she doesn't even wait for it to
do anything before she leaves in the same direction she comes.
Despite the fact that her "attention" always seems to be in the opposite
direction.

There is also an obvious edit to the tape, perhaps more than one.

Her behavior seems to be acting. Her "startle" jump is not a natural reflex.
She seems very aware of the camera. And pantomimes her actions in an
almost "silent movie" extravagance.

I am curious if she went to the second elevator to try it. I also am curious why LE released the tape at all. They mention nothing about other CCTV cameras that must have been in every hallway.

 

[Sillybilly]

I agree that face down would look like an accidental drowning, but face up would look like she was still alive in the water and trying to breath, if her body had been found the next day.

Sorry, but the classic drowning position is "face down":

Upon locating a submerged drowning victim, unless entangled, the searcher will invariably discover the body to be in the classic drowning position. Which is to say, in a jackknife position with buttocks high and head, arms and legs below trunk due to the absence of gas pockets in these areas of the body.

http://vcsar4.org/past/Academy/rescue.htm

 

[noodled1]

I am curious if she went to the second elevator to try it. I also am curious why LE released the tape at all. They mention nothing about other CCTV cameras that must have been in every hallway.

Me too, I've mentioned it before. The police could have easily accomplished the same thing with a few screen grabs.

 

[princessofmirth]

Me too, I've mentioned it before. The police could have easily accomplished the same thing with a few screen grabs.

Yes,and the tape appears heavily edited, so why the red herring?:twocents:

 

[four_seasons]

It seems to me to be her own left foot..

I watched this video several times. There are dual elevators.
She must have just entered the one who's door opened first.
But, SHE seems to be causing the door to remain opened.
I can fathom no reason for hitting several floors buttons before
hitting the HOLD DOOR button.

When she repeats this same sequence she doesn't even wait for it to
do anything before she leaves in the same direction she comes.
Despite the fact that her "attention" always seems to be in the opposite
direction.

There is also an obvious edit to the tape, perhaps more than one.

Her behavior seems to be acting. Her "startle" jump is not a natural reflex.
She seems very aware of the camera. And pantomimes her actions in an
almost "silent movie" extravagance.

I am curious if she went to the second elevator to try it. I also am curious why LE released the tape at all. They mention nothing about other CCTV cameras that must have been in every hallway.

there are no other cameras in the hallway. several people on chinese forums have gone inside and stayed a night there to investigate things and they have all confirmed that there are no cameras in the hallway.

 

[houndstooth]

Sorry, but the classic drowning position is "face down":



http://vcsar4.org/past/Academy/rescue.htm

I noted that LE announced that the water was fine even before they had
begun testing it.
I concluded that it was possible this was not a direct water source to the hotel, hostel, coffee shop or the Invisible Light Co., at all.

I noted that no one mentioned anything about how bad the water smelled.
Or the texture or anything. That and a few anomalies about the photos of the tanks have me questioning whether her body was recovered from the tanks at all. Or the water was not directly drawn from these cisterns.
But then, without that, then there is no rationale for looking there, since it was claimed the water pressure was the alleged issue.

In all the photos, I see lots of FD personnel but maybe one that had a police officer on scene! Then once they had cut a hole in the tank, for some reason one of the photographers posted a pic looking down from a different tank because it still had the square smaller hole, not the jagged rectangular one after the cut.

I get the feeling the cops are keeping the story at arms length for some reason. And a finding of inconclusive autopsy results gives the just the right
rationale for dropping the story altogether.

 

[kingsway]

Saw that you mentioned you felt like you were in a book of Dan Brown. Dan Brown's The Da Vinci Code came to my mind too when I, in my attempt to solve the puzzle of Elisa's repeated pressing of the floor nos. 14, 10, 7 and 4, googled this: "14 10 7 4 significance".

The google result startled me. It showed 'What is the meaning of water in John 4:14?' (Bolding as in actual google result.)

Quickly, I checked out my bible verses John 4:14, 10 and 7 and was absolutely stunned. For those here interested to know, these are the exact wordings of the verses from my NKJV Bible:

John 4 - Christ Witnesses to the Woman at the Well

4:7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.”

4:10 Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”

4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”

Just for clarification, I am not trying to throw in a religious angle here as religion is kind of sensitive. I myself am an open-minded free thinker even though I read the bible. But I thought I should share this very interesting discovery I made which adds to the already many mysteries of this very intriguing case.

Well apparently everything is part of God's plan... so maybe it was God that purposely killed Elisa through His mysterious ways.

 

[Qrious]

there are no other cameras in the hallway. several people on chinese forums have gone inside and stayed a night there to investigate things and they have all confirmed that there are no cameras in the hallway.

Kudos to these amateur sleuths!

 

[houndstooth]

there are no other cameras in the hallway. several people on chinese forums have gone inside and stayed a night there to investigate things and they have all confirmed that there are no cameras in the hallway.

Do they mention whether or not each fire escape exit has the same door alarms? I would think they would.
So how are they explaining how people are going up to the roof making grafitti
which I confess I didn't see from the photos I've seen in the media.
Or more importantly how did she make it up to the roof, allegedly?

 

[noodled1]

Yes,and the tape appears heavily edited, so why the red herring?:twocents:

Has the tape been edited? I noticed it was a bit jerky a couple times but didn't notice if the timer makes any large jumps in time. I'm sure somebody who's watched it closer than I can answer this...

There's something the police want from this, I'm just not sure of their motives.

 

[medsleuth]

Well I would say there is no evidence of anything sinister through the elevator video. Looks to me like an adventurous young gal roaming an interesting old building - probably with some others she met at Stay. Some dope or alcohol may have been in the mix. And those might have interacted with her medications and/or her self-acknowledged bi-polar condition. The police found no evidence of malice to the body. So she was likely not raped, beaten, choked, dragged to the top of the cistern and dumped in based on that. I've flip-flopped a few times now. But that's where I stand now.

Wow, we've completely different interpretations. So, you basically think this is all a horrible accident?

 

[Borris]

Sorry, but the classic drowning position is "face down":



http://vcsar4.org/past/Academy/rescue.htm

But she would be in shallow water, so she wouldn't be treading water if she was alive in the tank. She would be wading. If her legs became cramped her best chance to continue breathing would be to turn face up onto her back. If she expired in that position her sinking legs and arms would prevent the body from turning over into the face down position, depending on the level of the water. The water pressure at the hotel is kept low to avoid splashes in the guest bathrooms since the showers, sink, and toilet are in the same relative area. That should reflect a low-level of water in the tank.

 

[hello people]

What are her parents/ family doing? Are they vocal in the media? Any further comment by police?

 

[four_seasons]

Do they mention whether or not each fire escape exit has the same door alarms? I would think they would.
So how are they explaining how people are going up to the roof making grafitti
which I confess I didn't see from the photos I've seen in the media.
Or more importantly how did she make it up to the roof, allegedly?

they went to the 14th or 15th floor (sorry, i don't remember which one)
opened the window connected to the fire escape on the outside of the building, no alarm, waited 5 min to see if any security was coming up, none. so they just climbed the ladder which was on the outside of the building and went to the roof. easy as that.
they did not try the door that had the so called alarms for fearing of actually setting up the alarm.
but the access to the roof according to them was easy and wasn't guarded in any way.

 

[noodled1]

Or the texture or anything.

:gasp: