trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[goldenlover]

dont feed the troll :drumroll:

Why is it that if someone has an opinion that differs from what the majority on this forum are thinking they are labeled a troll? I happen to agree with the person that said Dr. D was a puppet. Does not mean I am a troll or want JA to walk free. I don't. It just means that is my opinion of that witness and I think it is important to hear everyone's opinion.

 

[Angelina Frost]

I hate the tiger / bear question too, it was a smart-ar** question IMO. I think there's an immature juror who's completely over it and just wants to act out. Anyway, since there's a filter at the end I just hope this person is filtered out.

But you know, we loved the smartar** questions when they were directed at Samuals and ALV so it's only fair that we have to cop them when directed at prosecution witnesses.

It was at the very least, a poorly structured and unnecessary question. I agree w/ you- hopefully they'll be kicked from the final 12.

I still think it's very telling that there were only 19 questions for Dr. D as opposed to 112 for Dr. Samuels and 159 for ALV.

 

[Kensie]

Please pass the dunce cap to me today because I do not understand the bear/tiger question.

Quoting myself again, but I did not understand the purpose of the tiger/bear question. Someone please explain or point by brain scrambled head in the right direction. I think there is fog in my office.

thanks

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Desert Palm house

* Purchased by DB/JA 6/05 for $357,000

* Foreclosure 1/08

* Sold 1/09 for $151,000

What? He bought the house for $357k and the bank sold it for $151k years later? Is that how much the bottom fell out of the housing market really?? Or is that because the bank sold it or what?

If the latter, how does one purchase a house from the bank in the states and can foreigners do it .. that is incredibly cheap!!

 

[Nosey Parker]

All the talking heads are making comments that make it sound as if it's either PTSD or BPD, why?

I just don't understand why it would be important if Jodi has PTSD as RS claimed it was caused by the HORROR OF MURDERING TRAVIS, not Travis attacking her. Or am I confused and not remembering correctly? Regardless what does it matter if she has PTSD from that day at all, it doesn't change the fact that she killed him. PTSD is just the result from a terrible experience and would be something she suffers post June 4th, 2008. I actually would be happy to know she is somehow haunted by that day, I don't think she is though.

So why would her having PTSD even be relevant? And why are they arguing whether she has PTSD vs BPD. When I heard Dr. D talk about her BPD I thought it hit the nail on the head, I also think it explains why she would premeditate and slaughter Travis.
On the other hand, AGAIN what relevance does her having PTSD have regarding this trial?

It amazes me just how clueless the HLN talking heads are on just about every point. It's irrevelant in the scheme of things whether Arias has PTSD and/or is BPD.

PTSD is very important to the defence. It served two purposes:

1. It enabled Arias to take the stand and purport Travis to be physically abusive, backing up the 'fear for her life' claim on June 4th, while using PTSD (aka 'the fog') as a substitute for taking 'The Fifth' on the murder and clean up, thereby excluding testimony that the prosecution could and would catch her on.

2. PTSD (aka the fog) was also an excuse for the consciousness of guilt phase, and the despicable actions that she took before her arrest. The defence could not be sure, when preparing for trial, just what would be allowed in showing Arias to be the cold blooded killer that she is - imperative that the jury have something to explain away those nasty visions of her sending flowers to her victim's grandmother.

BPD, I think, was not as important to the prosecution.

1. The diagnosis did give the jury a scientific explanation for her bizarre behaviours, and that she was capable of a premeditated killing.

2. Equally important to the prosecution, IMO, was for Dr. DeMarte to discredit Samuels and LaViolette (if indeed they had any credence at that point); to bebunk the defence's false trashing of Travis; and to show Arias as the true antagonist in the relationship.


As for self-defence, I think Arias's testimony wrecked that claim before it even got off the ground. LaViolette merely served to bury it!


Let's roll on to proving premeditation, Juan! That's all that's left to finish Arias off for good. :twocents:

 

[Kensie]

Why is it that if someone has an opinion that differs from what the majority on this forum are thinking they are labeled a troll? I happen to agree with the person that said Dr. D was a puppet. Does not mean I am a troll or want JA to walk free. I don't. It just means that is my opinion of that witness and I think it is important to hear everyone's opinion.

You are correct. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. These differnet opinions is one thing that makes this forum so interesting. Someone points out something that you never even considered.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Guys, I'm feeling a little bummed about the juror questions for Dr. DeMarte. Most of them seemed born out of a want for understanding, but others, like the bear/tiger question, or even the organizational thinking question, seemed like challenges.

The former in particular is logically bankrupt. A more apt comparison, if they were indeed seeking clarification, might have been an attack by a stray dog versus an attack by your own pet dog. I think Dr. DeMarte answered it professionally and well, but it didn't seem like a Q designed to get a better grasp on the concept; as previously stated, it was a challenge. And, JMO, an incoherent one given its premise.

I would wager that at this point, every juror knows more or less how they'll vote. There's been enough evidence presented and enough time lapsed that it's now more about just cementing those ideas in their head. To have a Q such as the 'tiger/bear' shows a deficit in understanding that I'm not sure can be rehabbed, you know?

Honestly, I think that question was asked because Dr. Samuels kept saying that it didn't matter if the story wasn't the same, the emotions were. They wanted to know if she felt the same way that he did. If the test is asking you to refer back to the event that is causing the trauma, if you referring to something that didn't happen, then how do those emotions apply? Even Dr. Samuels said that he should have re-administered the test once the story changed. I, personally, didn't read anymore than that into the question. I don't think it's anything to worry about. I would have been worried if another "could she have just snapped" question was asked, though. lol.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Desert Palm house

* Purchased by DB/JA 6/05 for $357,000

* Foreclosure 1/08

* Sold 1/09 for $151,000

Thank you. As another poster mentioned upthread, that is rather an expensive home for two restaurant servers. I doubt that Jodi had much in the way of savings, but maybe DB did, or he anticipated a large divorce settlement (I'm still not clear whether he was divorced or separated).

Also, I recall that Jodi said that the job at Ventana was "seasonal". This was actually one of the venues in the Big Sur area that were considered for DD's wedding in the mid-'90s. Our visit there was very quick because the facilities are not open in November (Thanksgiving weekend) that we were considering. Based on JA's statement, Ventana is still only a seasonal venue, so she and DB wouldn't have been working there year-round and would have had to have supplemental income to cover their expenses. :moo:

 

[Schuby]

automatic(semi or full)=pistol, other type is revolver.

Lol, ok, oops!

 

[Kensie]

What? He bought the house for $357k and the bank sold it for $151k years later? Is that how much the bottom fell out of the housing market really?? Or is that because the bank sold it or what?

If the latter, how does one purchase a house from the bank in the states and can foreigners do it .. that is incredibly cheap!!

Houses were overpriced and loans were made to people that could not afford the loan. THe bottom fell out. Happened probably in every state. The banks sold the houses for what they could to get back their investment. Sad.

 

[rose222]

Final point about the ME testimony, not a single jury question!

Thank you! I am watching the testimony right now and I was wondering if there were any juror questions.

 

[Angelina Frost]

Why is it that if someone has an opinion that differs from what the majority on this forum are thinking they are labeled a troll? I happen to agree with the person that said Dr. D was a puppet. Does not mean I am a troll or want JA to walk free. I don't. It just means that is my opinion of that witness and I think it is important to hear everyone's opinion.

The use of the word "puppet" to describe a formally trained, well spoken psychologist who was thoughtful in her responses will draw ire.

If the post had been void of that, ie- "I was not particularly impressed with Dr. De Marte. She said many things I disagreed with," nobody would have dropped the troll label.

It's not difference of opinion, it's poor execution.

 

[Celeskitty]

Thank you. As another poster mentioned upthread, that is rather an expensive home for two restaurant servers. I doubt that Jodi had much in the way of savings, but maybe DB did, or he anticipated a large divorce settlement (I'm still not clear whether he was divorced or separated).

Also, I recall that Jodi said that the job at Ventana was "seasonal". This was actually one of the venues in the Big Sur area that were considered for DD's wedding in the mid-'90s. Our visit there was very quick because the facilities are not open in November (Thanksgiving weekend) we were considering. Based on JA's statement, Ventana is still only a seasonal venue, so she and DB wouldn't have been working there year-round and would have had to have supplemental income to cover their expenses. :moo:

If I recall her testimony, one of her many aspirations was to be a realtor. She and Darryl believed that they could buy the house and then flip it, but then when the housing bubble popped and they were stuck.

First post, finally registered. Just wanted to say I've been reading this site for a while now. Very insightful folks here.

 

[lil_buddy]

Please pass the dunce cap to me today because I do not understand the bear/tiger question.

Here is the ACTUAL question:

Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?

Now here is a copy of the exam
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gB97RotPH51AKbB2g&sig2=78JL6clOX-c2hMGKbqTXuw

and some info about the exam and how it is scored:
http://www.clintools.com/victims/resources/assessment/ptsd/pds.html

It seems to me that the scoring is independent of the cause of trauma on the PSD exam - and DrJDM's answer was disingenuous.

 

[Schuby]

Here is the ACTUAL question:

Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?

Now here is a copy of the exam
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gB97RotPH51AKbB2g&sig2=78JL6clOX-c2hMGKbqTXuw

and some info about the exam and how it is scored:
http://www.clintools.com/victims/resources/assessment/ptsd/pds.html

It seems to me that the scoring is independent of the cause of trauma on the PSD exam - and DrJDM's answer was disingenuous.

But the following questions ask that you refer back to the moment of trauma?

 

[Kensie]

Here is the ACTUAL question:

Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?

Now here is a copy of the exam
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gB97RotPH51AKbB2g&sig2=78JL6clOX-c2hMGKbqTXuw

and some info about the exam and how it is scored:
http://www.clintools.com/victims/resources/assessment/ptsd/pds.html

It seems to me that the scoring is independent of the cause of trauma on the PSD exam - and DrJDM's answer was disingenuous.

Thanks Lil' Buddy. I have a better understanding now. I had to go look up the word 'disingenuous' - my vocabulary is not as fancy as yours. Learned a new word today!!!

 

[goldenlover]

That's my point. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent (not as smart as Einstein, however), and I did not care for Dr. D or the way she handled herself. In my opinion, she came across very cold and also biased. After being hired by the prosecution, there is no way she would have came up with any other opinion and she was very obvious and showed her disgust for JA in her mannerisms and the way she answered the questions. I understand her disgust, I just don't think she should have showed it because I think it made her seem as equally biased as the DT experts. Just like statistics, all data can be used to prove points that are total opposite, depending on how it is interpreted.

I think that opinions like mine are important and should not be labeled as a troll because it could be very likely a juror feels the same way.

 

[josie1986]

Why is it that if someone has an opinion that differs from what the majority on this forum are thinking they are labeled a troll? I happen to agree with the person that said Dr. D was a puppet. Does not mean I am a troll or want JA to walk free. I don't. It just means that is my opinion of that witness and I think it is important to hear everyone's opinion.

it has nothing to do with differing opinions.

this poster seems to be criticizing everything Juan has done,and is now criticizing this witness and will continue to do so.

they state their opinion and never follow it up when i and others ask them to expand on their opinion to understand where they are coming from.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Houses were overpriced and loans were made to people that could not afford the loan. THe bottom fell out. Happened probably in every state. The banks sold the houses for what they could to get back their investment. Sad.

We heard about that, but I didn't know the bottom fell out THAT much. Devastating. Whoever had money to buy from the banks probably made a killing.

 

[Novice Seeker]

If it's any consolation, JA is not nearly as smart as Bundy.
:moo::twocents:

Embarrassed to say but I'm not familiar with Ted Bundy other than some basic stuff. I do know that he was considered intelligent and likable which allowed him to get close to his victims.

What leads you to believe that Ted is more intelligent than Jodi?
Are you familiar enough with his murders to know if his methodology changed such as the actual killing, did the crime scene/forensic evidence left behind evolve?