trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[womblek]

Did Darryl admit to going from management to server so he could be with JA. They were able to buy a house in Monterey, Calif. working as servers? It wasn't a buyers market in 2005 was it? Either way, how in the world could they make the payments?

they couldn't - IIRC it went into foreclosure.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

But the following questions ask that you refer back to the moment of trauma?

And that's the thing. If you are referring BACK to the moment of TRAUMA, shouldn't you be talking about a trauma that occurred?

The analogy, for me, doesn't work because there would be no reason to lie about being attacked by a tiger vs a bear. There is no "secondary gain" to that lie.

 

[GoAskAllie]

Thank you. As another poster mentioned upthread, that is rather an expensive home for two restaurant servers. I doubt that Jodi had much in the way of savings, but maybe DB did, or he anticipated a large divorce settlement (I'm still not clear whether he was divorced or separated).

Also, I recall that Jodi said that the job at Ventana was "seasonal". This was actually one of the venues in the Big Sur area that were considered for DD's wedding in the mid-'90s. Our visit there was very quick because the facilities are not open in November (Thanksgiving weekend) that we were considering. Based on JA's statement, Ventana is still only a seasonal venue, so she and DB wouldn't have been working there year-round and would have had to have supplemental income to cover their expenses. :moo:

The home was purchased before the bottom fell out of the market and a lot of people got into homes with little or no money down and mortgages they really didn't understand. IIRC, both Darryl and Jodi testified they were hit with a huge increase in their monthly mortgage payment after a year or so and quickly got under water. Darryl also said that Jodi didn't contribute to the household expenses once she got involved with Prepaid Legal, Travis and the fast train to Mormonism.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If I recall her testimony, one of her many aspirations was to be a realtor. She and Darryl believed that they could buy the house and then flip it, but then when the housing bubble popped and they were stuck.

First post, finally registered. Just wanted to say I've been reading this site for a while now. Very insightful folks here.

:welcome: to Websleuths!

 

[frrlk]

What? He bought the house for $357k and the bank sold it for $151k years later? Is that how much the bottom fell out of the housing market really?? Or is that because the bank sold it or what?

If the latter, how does one purchase a house from the bank in the states and can foreigners do it .. that is incredibly cheap!!

Yes, that is how badly the bottom went out of the market in CA.

Foreignors, I dunno.

 

[khaki]

Quoting myself again, but I did not understand the purpose of the tiger/bear question. Someone please explain or point by brain scrambled head in the right direction. I think there is fog in my office.

thanks

here's how I took the bear/tiger question. Please keep in mind it is only my opinion, but here goes-

When RS testified about the PTSD, he said that even though JA was still telling a lie at that time he did his PTSD evaluation, I understood him to communicate to us and the jury that it doesn't really matter what she said the trauma was (2ninjas versus the truth of her murdering Travis) but what mattered was that in his eyes there was in fact a trauma. I think Dr. D communicated disagreement with this and said PTSD cannot exist with a made-up trauma or event. I think a juror remembered this and was asking Dr. D. if the exact trauma matters as much as the fact that there was any type of trauma. I don't know if this makes any sense but just my two cents.

 

[lil_buddy]

But the following questions ask that you refer back to the moment of trauma?

I think you refer to the incident "in your mind" - like you think of it while answering the questions.

It is stated up front (look in the info link I posted) this test is not set up to detect malingering. It was not appropriate for Samuels to administer this test in the first place.

 

[cricket49]

Totally totally OT but there is a movie on Lifetime tonight called "Blue-Eyed Butcher" the story of Susan Wright from Houston.

She stabbed her husband almost 200 times and buried him in the backyard.

Her case had some similarities to the Jodi Arias case except she WAS physically abused.

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

 

[EGirl]

Here is the ACTUAL question:

Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?

Now here is a copy of the exam
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gB97RotPH51AKbB2g&sig2=78JL6clOX-c2hMGKbqTXuw

and some info about the exam and how it is scored:
http://www.clintools.com/victims/resources/assessment/ptsd/pds.html

It seems to me that the scoring is independent of the cause of trauma on the PSD exam - and DrJDM's answer was disingenuous.

how could the scoring on responses related to a trauma be accurate if the trauma wasn't real?

And let's preface all of that by questioning how you can validate a test response when the interviewee lies about the first question?

 

[josie1986]

And that's the thing. If you are referring BACK to the moment of TRAUMA, shouldn't you be talking about a trauma that occurred?

The analogy, for me, doesn't work because there would be no reason to lie about being attacked by a tiger vs a bear. There is no "secondary gain" to that lie.

your sig is so good :floorlaugh:

 

[GoAskAllie]

The use of the word "puppet" to describe a formally trained, well spoken psychologist who was thoughtful in her responses will draw ire.

If the post had been void of that, ie- "I was not particularly impressed with Dr. De Marte. She said many things I disagreed with," nobody would have dropped the troll label.

It's not difference of opinion, it's poor execution.

Well said.

 

[lil_buddy]

Embarrassed to say but I'm not familiar with Ted Bundy other than some basic stuff. I do know that he was considered intelligent and likable which allowed him to get close to his victims.

What leads you to believe that Ted is more intelligent than Jodi?
Are you familiar enough with his murders to know if his methodology changed such as the actual killing, did the crime scene/forensic evidence left behind evolve?

Well his IQ was measured at 124, he graduated college and he managed to get in more than 1 victim.

That's off the top of my head.

 

[gauntlet]

I was just watching JM's redirect of the ME and unfortunately landed on part of JW's cross first. She used exactly the same technique with the ME as she did with Dr D of essentially asking them if they said something completely untrue and then being surprised they didn't say it etc.

In the ME's case, JW repeatedly said "Did you at on stage tell Det Flores the gun shot was first?" And then repeats, "So you NEVER said that....?" Is this a common technique for a DA or just one that JW doesn't need to worry about copyrighting?

 

[rose222]

it has nothing to do with differing opinions.

this poster seems to be criticizing everything Juan has done,and is now criticizing this witness and will continue to do so.

they state their opinion and never follow it up when i and others ask them to expand on their opinion to understand where they are coming from.

Based on the jurors' questions I think they agree with JM. We do too huh? :woohoo:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Yes, that is how badly the bottom went out of the market in CA.

Foreignors, I dunno.

I was joking about buying, housing is so much more expensive over here .. we're lucky the market didn't fall out like that though

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

I hate the tiger / bear question too, it was a smart-ar** question IMO. I think there's an immature juror who's completely over it and just wants to act out. Anyway, since there's a filter at the end I just hope this person is filtered out.

But you know, we loved the smartar** questions when they were directed at Samuals and ALV so it's only fair that we have to cop them when directed at prosecution witnesses.

I am surprised those "wise A--" Bad Haircut/ Tiger/bear/*advertiser censored*--were even asked by the judge. I would have thought they would have been thrown out. Although the Tiger/ Bear was thought provoking.

 

[Lissa]

Honestly, I think that question was asked because Dr. Samuels kept saying that it didn't matter if the story wasn't the same, the emotions were. They wanted to know if she felt the same way that he did. If the test is asking you to refer back to the event that is causing the trauma, if you referring to something that didn't happen, then how do those emotions apply? Even Dr. Samuels said that he should have re-administered the test once the story changed. I, personally, didn't read anymore than that into the question. I don't think it's anything to worry about. I would have been worried if another "could she have just snapped" question was asked, though. lol.

ITA!

And OMG, I LOVE your siggy pic! It's both scary & hilarious!!

 

[Hat]

Here is the ACTUAL question:

Hypothetically, if a person suffered PTSD because of a bear attack while hiking would you throw out their PDS test if they lied and said it was a tiger?

Now here is a copy of the exam
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...gB97RotPH51AKbB2g&sig2=78JL6clOX-c2hMGKbqTXuw

and some info about the exam and how it is scored:
http://www.clintools.com/victims/resources/assessment/ptsd/pds.html

It seems to me that the scoring is independent of the cause of trauma on the PSD exam - and DrJDM's answer was disingenuous.

Ok, go ahead and give her PTSD then, what's that supposed to be, a free pass? You mean instant PTSD from a Travis attack so she just had to stab 27 times, cut his throat and shoot him in the head - no choice?

 

[grammieto5]

I know, this doesn't make much sense to me either. And didn't Darryl say the monthly mortgage was something like $4,000 a month?

I distrust Darryl. He tried to obfuscate about the mortgage amount with Juan. He contradicted his statements from his deposition/interview.

Personally, I think he lied about his employment and history with Jodi. According to a blog/FB post from someone who worked there, they were having an affair while he was still her boss. [Hey, it was on the Internet, it must be true!]

I don't find his account of when he was a manager @ Ventana then moving down to server role believable.

So if they were involved with each other while he was her boss, maybe he had to step down. I just can't imagine someone with a child moving down in his employment, that would have been less pay also. I'm with you, something's not right there. And $4000 a month and that's just for a mortgage payment, some servers can make good money in the right place but not that good!

 

[josie1986]

here's how I took the bear/tiger question. Please keep in mind it is only my opinion, but here goes-

When RS testified about the PTSD, he said that even though JA was still telling a lie at that time he did his PTSD evaluation, I understood him to communicate to us and the jury that it doesn't really matter what she said the trauma was (2ninjas versus the truth of her murdering Travis) but what mattered was that in his eyes there was in fact a trauma. I think Dr. D communicated disagreement with this and said PTSD can not exist with a made-up trauma or event. I think a juror remembered this and was asking Dr. D. if the exact trauma matters as much as the fact that there was any type of trauma. I don't know if this makes any sense but just my two cents.

this is how i took it.

she stated on his test that it was an attack from strangers that was her trauma and she answered the questions according to that. when she told that "truth" that she killed him that test is rendered invalid because the trauma would be completely different

for example,if the trauma was from the ninjas the flashbacks/triggers would be things associated with ninjas but that was a lie so her having intrusive thoughts etc about that trauma are lies

i dont see it hard to get your head around...? JMO