trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[lil_buddy]

Ok, go ahead and give her PTSD then, what's that supposed to be, a free pass? You mean instant PTSD from a Travis attack so she just had to stab 27 times, cut his throat and shoot him in the head - no choice?

You are projecting meaning into my post that is not there.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If I recall her testimony, one of her many aspirations was to be a realtor. She and Darryl believed that they could buy the house and then flip it, but then when the housing bubble popped and they were stuck.

First post, finally registered. Just wanted to say I've been reading this site for a while now. Very insightful folks here.

Jodi had a lot of "dreams" but didn't have the motivation to pursue anything other then men seriously. :moo:

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

That's my point. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent (not as smart as Einstein, however), and I did not care for Dr. D or the way she handled herself. In my opinion, she came across very cold and also biased. After being hired by the prosecution, there is no way she would have came up with any other opinion and she was very obvious and showed her disgust for JA in her mannerisms and the way she answered the questions. I understand her disgust, I just don't think she should have showed it because I think it made her seem as equally biased as the DT experts. Just like statistics, all data can be used to prove points that are total opposite, depending on how it is interpreted.

I think that opinions like mine are important and should not be labeled as a troll because it could be very likely a juror feels the same way.

I am confused. Is this about whether or not we like someone or whether or not she is professional? I agree that she was "cold." She wasn't all gabby and smiley like ALV, she got up there gave her testimony, and got down.

Do you prefer ALV's style of testimony? (this is an honest question, I am not suggesting by default that you do)

With ALV, it was clear that she spent so much time on the stand to try to get the jury to like her. JM COULD have done that with JD. I mean, it's not as if they don't talk/prepare before she testifies. Instead, he was direct and straight to the point, and so was she. Another thing about JD is that she didn't spend every question arguing with JW. There were some hiccups and confusion, a lot of the times because JW didn't know what she was talking about, but other than that it was a straight forward exchange, and she would concede points on some questions when ALV NEVER conceded a point without a fight, even with simple yes or no questions.

The difference in testimony was night and day and I think the fact that the jurors had so few questions shows that they didn't have a hard time with following what Dr. DeMarte had to say. And, even if they find her a little biased, her bias is nowhere NEAR the bias on display by ALV and Dr. S. Not even in the same ballpark.

Finally, both sides can say that the other's experts are going to say what's best for their side, but with that logic we shouldn't believe any experts.

 

[smeck]

Why is it that if someone has an opinion that differs from what the majority on this forum are thinking they are labeled a troll? I happen to agree with the person that said Dr. D was a puppet. Does not mean I am a troll or want JA to walk free. I don't. It just means that is my opinion of that witness and I think it is important to hear everyone's opinion.

I think most people disagree with the term puppet....it is very insulting to this highly educated, articulate witness. Comparing her to Alv or Samuels is like comparing apples to oranges. Hopefully you see why the post is troll-like.

 

[rose222]

I think you refer to the incident "in your mind" - like you think of it while answering the questions.

It is stated up front (look in the info link I posted) this test is not set up to detect malingering. It was not appropriate for Samuels to administer this test in the first place.

If it were a case of true self-defense vesus the Ninja attacking a friend story then I agree that a trauma is a trauma. The PTSD would be more intense for a self-defense case. The test shouldn't be thrown out.

If comparing a self-defense case versus a murder then the traumas are different. In the murder the person committing the crime may not feel fear, anxiety etc. so the test would be invalid in this scenario.

I loved Demarte and she did a good job of explaining why JA did not suffer from PTSD but she could have done a better job explaining hypotheticals.

 

[josie1986]

Based on the jurors' questions I think they agree with JM. We do too huh? :woohoo:

i've not heard one questions that screams "oh my goodness we believe her"

the amount of evidence going against her i just cant see it,and if there was one juror that had doubts i can totally see that being changed once juan gets the wallmart and tesoro reps on the stand.

will be clear as day then

 

[Paintr]

That's my point. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent (not as smart as Einstein, however), and I did not care for Dr. D or the way she handled herself. In my opinion, she came across very cold and also biased. After being hired by the prosecution, there is no way she would have came up with any other opinion and she was very obvious and showed her disgust for JA in her mannerisms and the way she answered the questions. I understand her disgust, I just don't think she should have showed it because I think it made her seem as equally biased as the DT experts. Just like statistics, all data can be used to prove points that are total opposite, depending on how it is interpreted.

I think that opinions like mine are important and should not be labeled as a troll because it could be very likely a juror feels the same way.

I have no problem with your post.Different opinions often teach me something.
You are correct that data can be interpreted differently. But I would ask ....personality aside...did you trust the Dr DM interpretion of the data? Did you believe that AVL or Dr Samuels were more truthful in their testimony than DR DM? Just curious.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

So if they were involved with each other while he was her boss, maybe he had to step down. I just can't imagine someone with a child moving down in his employment, that would have been less pay also. I'm with you, something's not right there. And $4000 a month and that's just for a mortgage payment, some servers can make good money in the right place but not that good!

Hey you're right that doesn't add up AT ALL! A $4000/month mortgage payment is on a loan for a LOT more than $375k! He's lying .. man there's something so weird going on with DB he gave out the creepiest vibe, but maybe that's because we had to look at just his hands, it was not good.

I don't know how different your percentage rates are now or were during 2007, but on a loan of say $375k @ 7.5% the repayments are around $$2,771.22 per month....

 

[GumShoe209]

REVISED ARIZONA JURY INSTRUCTIONS (CIVIL), 4TH
(January 2005) 8
PRELIMINARY 6
Expert Witness
[Give this instruction only if it is known at the start of the trial that the jury will be
hearing expert opinion testimony during the trial.]1
A witness qualified as an expert by education or experience may state opinions on
matters in that witness’s field of expertise, and may also state reasons for those opinions.
Expert opinion testimony should be judged just as any other testimony. You are not
bound by it. You may accept or reject it, in whole or in part, and you should give it as
much credibility and weight as you think it deserves, considering the witness’s
qualifications and experience, the reasons given for the opinions, and all the other
evidence in the case. http://www.azbar.org/media/58448/preliminary.pdf

Note *experience or education*

 

[crimesnooper]

Here is why I am not worried that JA will somehow not be convicted of first degree murder or worse case senario, second degree.Even if you beleive there is some truth to ALV's testimony that she was "battered."I think the jury will conclude that she did not suffer from Battered Women's sydrome. If anyone can name one case of BWS where the women had no dependent ties( econmically dependant, children, in the same home) and drives 700 miles plus to go back to the "batterer's den" please tell me. Most are hoping never to be found by their physical abuser.
Even if jury feels that TA was emotional abusive to JA( and I think there is eveidence)I don't think it had any impact. She showed no signs of what other women who have been beaten down emotionally typically do. I think JA is like Teflon. It just doesn't stick. How many women would have stayed in a relationship once their lover called term a *advertiser censored*?
I don't feel as confident about DrDM as many do in the sense I don't know that she's brilliant ect. But she raised a great point about the PSDS. She saw the tapes of 48 hours and saw no signs of startle reaction ect. Great point.
A bit ot but CNN interviewd one of the survivors of the Boston Marathon. He was with four friends(all lost limbs) but he was by the mailbox and that blocked the impact to his lower body. He was injured, but had been released from the hospital. He was asked what he remebered and he said " I remember everthing." So we know great truama does not always cause a "fog"

So despite all the testimony, court bickering, witnesses dueling, we still come down to.. the rejection, the stolen gun, the elaborate trip plan, the gas cans, the cell phone being off in Az, the two fake stories about her being at his home, the gun shot, the stab wounds, the slit throat, the photos, the connecting with the family afterward, the fake journal entries.

PS there is one q that I don't think was ever asked. When TA allegeldy body slammed her and she was trying to get away from him,,did she scream?hmmm

 

[EquallyDivided]

there's a huge chain of custody problem if that story's true. and i doubt it IS true but still...

Chain of custody wouldn't becessarily be an issue with this scenario. "Donkey path" can be made. Gun stolen from grandpa has serial number. Casing at scene was found. Ballistics on gun in desert COULD have same serial number as reported gun, and same ballistics as casing found at scene. This is provided that the gun doesn't have rust issues in the bore. Hopefully the arid climate would have prevented that - but this is just HUGE speculation at this point.

 

[Kensie]

this is how i took it.

she stated on his test that it was an attack from strangers that was her trauma and she answered the questions according to that. when she told that "truth" that she killed him that test is rendered invalid because the trauma would be completely different

for example,if the trauma was from the ninjas the flashbacks/triggers would be things associated with ninjas but that was a lie so her having intrusive thoughts etc about that trauma are lies

i dont see it hard to get your head around...? JMO

I don't think it is really hard to get your ahead around if you understoond the question. I did not understand it and I did not hear it asked or answered so I was unclear as to what it meant. All these great explanations have turned the fog into something I understand now.
thanks to all that answered my question.

 

[Hat]

That's my point. I consider myself to be fairly intelligent (not as smart as Einstein, however), and I did not care for Dr. D or the way she handled herself. In my opinion, she came across very cold and also biased. After being hired by the prosecution, there is no way she would have came up with any other opinion and she was very obvious and showed her disgust for JA in her mannerisms and the way she answered the questions. I understand her disgust, I just don't think she should have showed it because I think it made her seem as equally biased as the DT experts. Just like statistics, all data can be used to prove points that are total opposite, depending on how it is interpreted.

I think that opinions like mine are important and should not be labeled as a troll because it could be very likely a juror feels the same way.

They could feel that way with no logical basis and be totally wrong. They could even do it just for attention and to feel special.

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

TY for posting that! That is exactly what I was hoping to find out. I deleted my posts in reference to it a few seconds ago. I just got in a little while ago and had no time to review all of today's posts. TY

I know that ACandyrose is allowed on this site. She has so much information on Caylee , JonBenet and many others.

 

[josie1986]

Here is why I am not worried that JA will somehow not be convicted of first degree murder or worse case senario, second degree.Even if you beleive there is some truth to ALV's testimony that she was "battered."I think the jury will conclude that she did not suffer from Battered Women's sydrome. If anyone can name one case of BWS where the women had no dependent ties( econmically dependant, children, in the same home) and drives 700 miles plus to go back to the "batterer's den" please tell me. Most are hoping never to be found by their physical abuser.
Even if jury feels that TA was emotional abusive to JA( and I think there is eveidence)I don't think it had any impact. She showed no signs of what other women who have been beaten down emotionally typically do. I think JA is like Teflon. It just doesn't stick. How many women would have stayed in a relationship once their lover called term a *advertiser censored*?
I don't feel as confident about DrDM as many do in the sense I don't know that she's brilliant ect. But she raised a great point about the PSDS. She saw the tapes of 48 hours and saw no signs of startle reaction ect. Great point.
A bit ot but CNN interviewd one of the survivors of the Boston Marathon. He was with four friends(all lost limbs) but he was by the mailbox and that blocked the impact to his lower body. He was injured, but had been released from the hospital. He was asked what he remebered and he said " I remember everthing." So we know great truama does not always cause a "fog"

So despite all the testimony, court bickering, witnesses dueling, we still come down to.. the rejection, the stolen gun, the elaborate trip plan, the gas cans, the cell phone being off in Az, the two fake stories about her being at his home, the gun shot, the stab wounds, the slit throat, the photos, the connecting with the family afterward, the fake journal entries.

PS there is one q that I don't think was ever asked. When TA allegeldy body slammed her and she was trying to get away from him,,did she scream?hmmm

bbm
thats a good question,im surprised she didn't mention something like that. i mean you aren't just going to be silent in a situation like that

 

[Kensie]

I have no problem with your post.Different opinions often teach me something.
You are correct that data can be interpreted differently. But I would ask ....personality aside...did you trust the Dr DM interpretion of the data? Did you believe that AVL or Dr Samuels were more truthful in their testimony than DR DM? Just curious.

I think I may be on the verge of getting sent to time out. The poster did not say anything about ALV or Dr.S when the comment was made about Dr. D being a puppet. So why ask the poster to compare ALV and Dr. S. The poster felt a certain way about Dr. D. - end of story.

If I offended anyone, I am truly sorry.

 

[DeAnnaMisrahi]

Why is it that if someone has an opinion that differs from what the majority on this forum are thinking they are labeled a troll? I happen to agree with the person that said Dr. D was a puppet. Does not mean I am a troll or want JA to walk free. I don't. It just means that is my opinion of that witness and I think it is important to hear everyone's opinion.

I don't know about that whole troll thing, I have a different definition of it.

I am still confused about what made Dr. DeMarte a puppet, though. Is it just because her testimony supports the prosecution?

 

[kaRN]

It amazes me just how clueless the HLN talking heads are on just about every point. It's irrevelant in the scheme of things whether Arias has PTSD and/or is BPD.

PTSD is very important to the defence. It served two purposes:

1. It enabled Arias to take the stand and purport Travis to be physically abusive, backing up the 'fear for her life' claim on June 4th, while using PTSD (aka 'the fog') as a substitute for taking 'The Fifth' on the murder and clean up, thereby excluding testimony that the prosecution could and would catch her on.

2. PTSD (aka the fog) was also an excuse for the consciousness of guilt phase, and the despicable actions that she took before her arrest. The defence could not be sure, when preparing for trial, just what would be allowed in showing Arias to be the cold blooded killer that she is - imperative that the jury have something to explain away those nasty visions of her sending flowers to her victim's grandmother.

BPD, I think, was not as important to the prosecution.

1. The diagnosis did give the jury a scientific explanation for her bizarre behaviours, and that she was capable of a premeditated killing.

2. Equally important to the prosecution, IMO, was for Dr. DeMarte to discredit Samuels and LaViolette (if indeed they had any credence at that point); to bebunk the defence's false trashing of Travis; and to show Arias as the true antagonist in the relationship.


As for self-defence, I think Arias's testimony wrecked that claim before it even got off the ground. LaViolette merely served to bury it!


Let's roll on to proving premeditation, Juan! That's all that's left to finish Arias off for good. :twocents:

PTSD is also the diagnosis given to truly battered women as battered womens syndrome isn't a recognized diagnosis. I think Dr.S kind of blew it for the defense when he stated JA's trauma stemmed from the killing when really he should have said it was from the cumulative effect of being battered. He even compounded his error by telling the jury it wasn't a get out of jail free card.

 

[josie1986]

I don't think it is really hard to get your ahead around if you understoond the question. I did not understand it and I did not hear it asked or answered so I was unclear as to what it meant. All these great explanations have turned the fog into something I understand now.
thanks to all that answered my question.

i didn't mean the last part about getting you're head around it to come across as it was aimed at you,it was just a general statement.

i heard the question but i had my kids rabbiting on in my other ear so i went back and listened later on and thats what i got out of it :moo:

 

[GoAskAllie]

I was joking about buying, housing is so much more expensive over here .. we're lucky the market didn't fall out like that though

It's all about location, location, location when it comes to housing prices in the US. I've lived in Boston, NYC, Los Angeles and Washington D.C. -- all places where housing prices are steep. Many foreigners own property in the US. Cash is king.