State rests rebuttal case - thread #170

[LinasK]

What an insane day!!! When I left this morning for back-to-back meetings I returned home at 6:00 and they were still at it. I can't believe this judge allowed a case of this magnitude to wind up like a train wreck! The jurors must have been starving - having eaten nothing since lunch; Juan looked like he was ready to drop; the family is exhausted; and they all have to be bright eyed and bushy-tailed tomorrow morning. Thankfully - it's OVER!

Hopefully the jurors will totally disregard the gasbag's testimony - he is nothing more tha ALV with a moustache! Dr. Horn's unfortunate gaffe should not be held against him - sometimes a cigar is just a cigar; and a typo is just a typo. JW's cross was excruciatingly amateurish and painful to watch.

Dr. Hays was a 'steel magnolia'! She made short shrift of the tiger/bear scenario - how can you believe a liar who has no evidence of 'claw marks'?

This jury will see through all the smoke and mirrors from the DT. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter which came first - gunshot or knife. It was premeditated; it was over-kill; JA used TWO weapons to make sure Travis was dead; she lied and covered up her tracks before and after the murder; and most importantly, there was absolutely no evidence of battered woman syndrome or PTSD! Jodi Arias is a crazed psychopath who knew exactly what she was doing and why she did it. Time to smile....and say 'cheese', Jodi!

I think they got a dinner break and probably snack breaks too. Allowances had to be made for Jodi too because she missed her jailhouse dinner and her bus back. Also, it was Wilmott's fault that Dr. Geffner was up there for so many hours- at least it wasn't days!!!
I don't think it ended like a train wreck, the witnesses today were well worth it! Juan made them all prosecution witnesses, including Dr. Geffner- who was a jack of all trades. The final witness, the female neuropsychologist was unflappable and totally backed up Dr. DeMarte and brought up Jodi's lying repeatedly. It was a great finish from what I've seen!!!

 

[writer7]

Yes, this, exactly. Defense needs gunshot first because it supports Jodi's story of self-defense (and BWS) and negates pre-meditation. The defense needs this sequence to keep JA from death. Stabbing and slitting throat first contradicts JA's theory of self-defense which in turn supports premeditation. It's a moot point to most of us, because the whole thing is horrific and cruel, regardless of what sequence it happened. But it's legal minutia that makes a big difference in the technical language of the statute that will be the basis for deliberations.

True, except it gives way too much credit to JA's defense to say 'supports' It vaguely wafts towards the same hemisphere as self-defense and could have helped negate premeditation if she had been smart enough with the rest of her story. Which she wasn't. Thank God!

She's toast no matter the order, for lots of reasons. Yay!

 

[Sophieandme]

Yes, this, exactly. Defense needs gunshot first because it supports Jodi's story of self-defense (and BWS) and negates pre-meditation. The defense needs this sequence to keep JA from death. Stabbing and slitting throat first contradicts JA's theory of self-defense which in turn supports premeditation. It's a moot point to most of us, because the whole thing is horrific and cruel, regardless of what sequence it happened. But it's legal minutia that makes a big difference in the technical language of the statute that will be the basis for deliberations.

Please help me understand... What is the difference between the gun or the knife 1st if Jodi's "story" is that both were available at the crime scene when she needed to defend herself? (I don't believe this for a nano second..)

 

[wasnt_me]

i can see the judge letting in a sur rebuttal witness, what i don't get was why he was allowed to testify about the medical brain part, when that is not what he was a true expert on - imo. shouldn't the judge had said they would need an expert - like a medical dr or coroner - to rebutt dr horne?

Yes, I really don't like the fact that Dr. G is there talking about Dr. Samuel's testimony and Dr. D's testimony--AND Dr. Horn's testimony. He mentioned he was in DV. Did he touch on ALV's, too?

I don't know about the jury, but for me, there should have been two experts, one who was like you said a medical doctor or coroner, but they couldn't get one, I guess.

What I didn't like about his testimony on direct is that he was explaining things that would happen to the brain and some of them were long term effects. JW caught one about loss of memory and clarified that it would happen down the line, but that made me question whether any of things he was saying would happen immediately or if everything he was saying was with regards to patients who'd somehow made it through the gunshot wound and were in rehabilitation.

The problem is, the juror asked Horn if all his patients were dead, but I'd ask Dr. G which one of his patients did he observe at the point of impact?

 

[ctmom]

3:00am East Coast time...
DONE!!!!
I feel for Juan... This was downright mean of Judge to cram in this at the last minute!
She let this gig last 4 months to avoid appeal - reversals and just gave the DT a pile of carp to work with in a 15 hour window..
What a dit wad...
Shame on u judge
Imma gettin sleep.

 

[amberjul]

That's why I think the jury will get no such instruction. Because the judge has already said the order doesn't matter, but in regards to whether murder one should be on the table of course. But I don't think that'll happen since either way could mean self defense or premeditation.

Yeah, when I wrote that it felt somewhat trivial to say. I didn't know JSS had said the order doesn't matter - now that I do, it makes sense that it would not be an instruction.

Thanks!

 

[wasnt_me]

After all the trajectory talk today in trial, I'm left with that vision of the defendant's take on a "linebacker tackle" - no matter what was argued we do know she did not shoot him in defense. jmo

Riiiiigghhtt.....

I'd said before that I thought, with that trajectory, he'd have to suddenly turn his face to the side as if he were doing a swimming stroke to get that bullet through the brain and across his face--but certainly not if he's coming head on. a bullet might change direction, but it wouldn't boomerang and miss the brain at the same time.

 

[DesSands]

I'm not discussing the degree of Travis' suffering right now or what version of events to believe. All I'm discussing is that the order of the killing might be important once the jury receives its instructions on how to deliberate. That's all I've been trying to talk about on this line of posts. I feel my point's being misunderstood, or I'm incorrect about the jury's instructions affecting how they deliberate. I'll just wait for the instructions, if we get to see them. Thanks.

No you're absolutely right. Our Justice system gives too much leeway to the defendant. The victim loses out too many times. If you go back to the CA case, read the instructions given to the jury. It's like well if you feel this way, or you believe this, you must find so and so not guilty.
Also so much is kept away from the jury that they never really get to see who the person behind the mask really is. It's unfair in many instances.
This monster should never see the light of day again, but I'm afraid the judge is going to let the lesser included chgs. in. Now how is that fair? She was charged with first degree murder, it's finally been admitted to. All the rest is garbage and psycho babble over and over way too much.
So he may have hurt her feelings and decided she was a wacko he didn't want to marry. Wow, first time that someone has had a broken heart or been disappointed. She wasn't going to go to Cancun. In her mind murder was to be his punishment.
I wonder if she realizes now that he wasn't going to marry MH, and some of this she did for nothing. And she never knew that until after the fact. If nothing else, that's got to get her goat a little.

 

[amberjul]

Is it bad that I try to think Dr. Geffner but can't help but remember his name being Dr. Gopher?

 

[amberjul]

Riiiiigghhtt.....

I'd said before that I thought, with that trajectory, he'd have to suddenly turn his face to the side as if he were doing a swimming stroke to get that bullet through the brain and across his face--but certainly not if he's coming head on. a bullet might change direction, but it wouldn't boomerang and miss the brain at the same time.

Not only that, but linebackers lead with their shoulders, not their wings lol.

 

[writer7]

Yes, I really don't like the fact that Dr. G is there talking about Dr. Samuel's testimony and Dr. D's testimony--AND Dr. Horn's testimony. He mentioned he was in DV. Did he touch on ALV's, too?

I don't know about the jury, but for me, there should have been two experts, one who was like you said a medical doctor or coroner, but they couldn't get one, I guess.

What I didn't like about his testimony on direct is that he was explaining things that would happen to the brain and some of them were long term effects. JW caught one about loss of memory and clarified that it would happen down the line, but that made me question whether any of things he was saying would happen immediately or if everything he was saying was with regards to patients who'd somehow made it through the gunshot wound and were in rehabilitation.

The problem is, the juror asked Horn if all his patients were dead, but I'd ask Dr. G which one of his patients did he observe at the point of impact?

Excellent point! I only have a BS degree in Psych, but it was focused on neuropsych and research. I thought about all the brain functioning studies we read that involved surviving amazing injuries (fascinating stuff to learn how the brain works). None of it compares to work an ME does, or an ER surgeon, etc. I have no doubt the Dr should know more than people expect about the brain. Neuropsych is serious business, so kudos to him. But still, the kinds of research and work experience totally matter. You are absolutely right. Understanding the (living) brain is a far cry from categorizing injuries of a dead man!

Never seen an autopsy, my foot. He should be ashamed to have answered the questions he did.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, I've heard of that also. It makes sense - if she shot first, you must find A, if she shot last, you must find B. All the arguing in this trial over it could mean that the Defense and Prosecution either anticipate such an instruction, or know it will be given.

Another possibility is if the jury finds the crime heinous enough and find that the order of things pales in comparison to that, they may just trump the judge.

We'll see tomorrow.

Thanks. You got to the heart of what I've been wondering. So you believe they can trump the instructions? I have no idea of whether they can or not, just asking.

 

[DesSands]

3:00am East Coast time...
DONE!!!!
I feel for Juan... This was downright mean of Judge to cram in this at the last minute!
She let this gig last 4 months to avoid appeal - reversals and just gave the DT a pile of carp to work with in a 15 hour window..
What a dit wad...
Shame on u judge
Imma gettin sleep.

If JSS was a voted in judge, she will certainly lose next term. Az residents should hold her feet to the fire. This was the biggest circus ever and she allowed it. She could have taken some control, death case or not. One and a half hr. lunches for the jurors when they were running so far behind, allowing so many side bars. JBB did a lot of moving things along in the CA trial and so could have this judge. JA was allowed to run this show and she got her way, manipulate as usual. :seeya:

 

[amberjul]

Thanks. You got to the heart of what I've been wondering. So you believe they can trump the instructions? I have no idea of whether they can or not, just asking.

Well, like you I've watched a lot of tv court drama but I think in real life juries have been known to disregard instructions, and I believe that by law they have that right, i.e. does not constitute mistrial. Call it the "reverse Pinellas" - ha!

 

[wasnt_me]

3:00am East Coast time...
DONE!!!!
I feel for Juan... This was downright mean of Judge to cram in this at the last minute!
She let this gig last 4 months to avoid appeal - reversals and just gave the DT a pile of carp to work with in a 15 hour window..
What a dit wad...
Shame on u judge
Imma gettin sleep.

Done? No fair, I'm at part 5! :banghead:

 

[wasnt_me]

No you're absolutely right. Our Justice system gives too much leeway to the defendant. The victim loses out too many times. If you go back to the CA case, read the instructions given to the jury. It's like well if you feel this way, or you believe this, you must find so and so not guilty.
Also so much is kept away from the jury that they never really get to see who the person behind the mask really is. It's unfair in many instances.
This monster should never see the light of day again, but I'm afraid the judge is going to let the lesser included chgs. in. Now how is that fair? She was charged with first degree murder, it's finally been admitted to. All the rest is garbage and psycho babble over and over way too much.
So he may have hurt her feelings and decided she was a wacko he didn't want to marry. Wow, first time that someone has had a broken heart or been disappointed. She wasn't going to go to Cancun. In her mind murder was to be his punishment.
I wonder if she realizes now that he wasn't going to marry MH, and some of this she did for nothing. And she never knew that until after the fact. If nothing else, that's got to get her goat a little.

Thanks. I was going to cite CA case, but I have only heard about it. I didn't watch it. But what you are saying is what I was getting at.

 

[Dana]

1 or 2 seconds what? He passes out, he falls, he becomes disoriented, he feels it? Did they elaborate? That's what I mean.

I'm not sure. The way I understood it was that since Travis landed on top of Jodi after he was shot in the face, after a couple of seconds I don't think he could have stood up, made his way to the sink, coughed up blood and told Jodi, "I'm gonna kill you ****". To me, that 1 or 2 seconds wouldn't matter, Travis isn't going to do much because it would take him that long to pick himself off the floor.

If I was on the jury, that's the way I would have interpreted it.

 

[Sophieandme]

Thanks. You got to the heart of what I've been wondering. So you believe they can trump the instructions? I have no idea of whether they can or not, just asking.

Give me a minute Wasn't me....I've found the ruling on the death penalty aggravating factor, specifically addressing sequence of wounds. Got to go copy and paste!

 

[DesSands]

Not only that, but linebackers lead with their shoulders, not their wings lol.

You're right, I thought it didn't look right. Now that I think of it, she demonstrated a light plane coming in for a landing. :floorlaugh:

 

[wasnt_me]

Give me a minute Wasn't me....I've found the ruling on the death penalty aggravating factor, specifically addressing sequence of wounds. Got to go copy and paste!

You're Juanderful!:blushing: