GUILTY TX - Alanna Gallagher, 6, Saginaw, 1 July 2013 - #10

[skibaboo]

The 2 vehicles in question, these photos show them leaving the neighborhood? or entering? I'm turned around with the directions again.

They are entering Babbling Brook Dr from the top (north?)

 

[GingerzMomma]

The 2 vehicles in question, these photos show them leaving the neighborhood? or entering? I'm turned around with the directions again.

Entering from the north, traveling southbound on Babbling Brook.

 

[GingerzMomma]

This would also account for LE taking samples of pool/hot tub chemicals, if they found chlorine evidence on AG's skin.

The probably thought he outsmarted everyone.

I would love to learn that he lurked here and saw the articles posted showing there was less than a 15-20% chance that he could destroy his DNA evidence this way. Probably should have googled that a bit more on the front end, eh?

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I'm also curious about whomever he was promoting a "neighborhood watch" with.....

No, I haven't seen/heard that anyone tipped him off about LE coming. One of the more "high profile" neighbors in this case gave and "exlusive" to NBC5 yesterday where she said she asked an investigator if she needed to get her girls out of the neighborhood (why she asked, she didn't say) and they gave her a vague answer to the effect that it couldn't hurt........

"And that's when I KNEW something was about to happen".


So, no. No one was "tipped off". And, IMO, someone really loves to get in front of the cameras every time they pull onto Babbling Brook. That's all I'm gonna say.

There was a video talking to the person that was organizing the neighborhood watch. I'm trying to find it. If anyone else has it handy it would be much appreciated.

 

[Jo in Calif]

What about the friend he was seen walking around with and wanted to start a neighborhood watch?

What about another neighbor? Was he friendly with anyone? Young or old?

Did I read right, another neighbor had tipped him off LEO were coming?

Surely someone involved would have been in contact before via phone or online...and probably after. This knucklehead doesn't appear savvy or fearful at anything. I believe he believed he covered all his bases IMO

I tend to think that LE knows all, hopefully, the vehicles that belong in that neighborhood.
I also think that most of the people in that neighborhood have seen the security cam pics. and would say wait a minute that is my car.
I really think that we are in for another OMG moment, when the driver of one of those cars is identified.

 

[floridamomma]

A few random thoughts...

I don't feel guilty for questioning the parents possible involvement. I don't say that to sound cruel, but I'm typically one to consider all options and then move forward. Yes, I questioned how a 6 year old was free to simply wander around, simply b/c that is just not how I would do things. In my little world, if my 6 yr old wanted to go to a friends house, I would call the other parent and arrange a play date. In so many cases, the parent DID do it. So, I wasn't stuck on it once I looked at their FB pages, blogs, etc...

Regarding the suspects mom. I know someone, a good, very good mom. Her 17 yr old son is her world, she's given him all she had as a parent, and for most kids it would have been more than enough to set him on a straight path thru life. Her son, though... he just has problems. Possibly a sociopath, although I'm by far not qualified to diagnose. Mom is, by no fault of her own, simply blind to certain things. Personally, I DO NOT SEE HOW. But I know them both well. I know she loves him, wants the best for him, would die for him. I think she's in denial and simply can't wrap her brain around some of his actions. Claims not to make excuses for him, then in the next breath will lay out how guilty she feels over certain events in his life that she feels may have led to him feeling unloved. An arrest for aggravated assault was promptly dealt with, she took him to the shrink, removed any weapons from the house, etc. Once he was off probation it was as if it never happened- in her mind, it was a silly adolescent misunderstanding and all was fine now.

My experience of knowing her has taught me how some of "these parents" can be "so blind"... I hurt for them. I want to scream and shake her and say WAKE THE ^$!*# UP!!! Ugh.

 

[Midwestmama78]

The probably thought he outsmarted everyone.

I would love to learn that he lurked here and saw the articles posted showing there was less than a 15-20% chance that he could destroy his DNA evidence this way. Probably should have googled that a bit more on the front end, eh?

I'm vacillating between thinking he was an overconfident, arrogant, posturing ignoramus or just a plain vanilla ignoramus. Either way, not a lot of activity between the ears. Just IMO, of course.

 

[greenpalm]

I'm wondering if he thought that what he poured over her would take care of the DNA evidence. I'm betting it was something with bleach in it.

I have assumed that from the beginning when they took hot tub water samples some kind of chlorine or diluted chlorine was all over her. He tried to wash her off. Which is probably why LE kept saying they didn't have anything to go on. They wanted him to think it had worked.

I actually hope that's the case. It's hard enough to know what Alana went through at this one monster's hands. The thought that someone willingly helped hide that is appalling.

I also really hope that no one else was involved in the actual assault. I'm reminded of Katelyn Wolfe's recent murder (and intent to rape) by two young men. I was floored by "why" she was killed. http://abcnews.go.com/US/katelyn-wolfe-murder-suspects-wanted-felt-kill-police/story?id=19404645

If the accomplice was duped, I hope that he or she knows that coming forth right now is the very best thing to do.

I felt the same way when DD Spicher was implicated in Kyron Horman's disappearance. It's bad enough that his own step mother may have dissappeared him, but to think that some outside person was willing to help her is beyond apalling. Somehow it's easier to imagine a stepmother growing to detest her step child to the point of wanted to remove him from her world, but what possible motivation could her friend have…*other than loyalty, or wanting to have power to hold over her by knowing.

As has been said before, even if these accomplice(s) didn't know what was in the tarp initially, surely they did by that night or the next day, and they certainly didn't come forward, which is just as bad as knowing in the first place.

Something along that line has crossed my mind, sadly. In an an old case I've followed for years (Oakland County Child Killer), a current suspect was a teenager at the time thought to have "lured" victims to a car for his older driver/perpetrator (who had actually been charged with sexually assaulting said teenager when he was younger). Like you, I wonder how the cell phone image was taken. I'd rather not think about other possibilities, but there are some.

There are apps that have timers on them, even for phones. He could have set a timer and taken it himself, if it was terribly important to him. Or he could have somehow used a mirror to do it.

If he was being watched this whole time I wonder if they were somewhere in the neighborhood the night of the fire? Would they hide truth over scanner feed as in a neighbor called it but it was really LE watching him call it in and that is why it was caught so earlier. I thought it was odd that the fire was caught so quickly at that time of the night. Though that would have to mean that he set the fire.

LE can use a different radio channel that's not public if they have stuff they don't want broadcast.

 

[ArianeEmory]

What did hiding the timeline from the public ( including the perp) do though? Was it to make LE seem like they had no clue how to do their job or to make the public think the family had something to do with it? If they were going for one of those they succeeded. From at least one interview we heard she was seen out around 2 even though it seemed to go poof. Since that was out to the public already they should have ran with a different approach it seems.


Lets be honest I think the first people we think about when kids go missing are the parents lately. Add that to the fact that she was found before reported missing that is normally a huge red flag. I thought it was the parents also until I saw their FB pages and I thought this couldn't have been them. They did so many things with their kids and they didn't seem like they were up to anything shady that would cause them not to call 911 if an accident caused her death.

I thought it was the family for about three hours, on day one, back when we still believed 'decomposition' was on the table. Back then, it looked like parents had reported a child missing who had been missing for days.

As soon as it became apparent that info was illegitimate, I read LG's LiveJournal. I've basically never stopped defending the family ever since. While I wasn't precisely in their subcultural circles, I've had friends and relatives who were, and I shared some interests with them.

Plus, more significantly, even though their marriage is unorthodox, it was obvious it had been in place for a long time, and that their lives were home and family oriented. There was no obvious sign of dysfuction, drug abuse, or other reports of child abuse in the home. I think lots of people are still angry about CA, and possibly it colors reactions, but compared to Casey Anthony, or Elaina Steinfurth's home life, or a million other examples, Alanna's homelife was stable. Mom was a churchgoer and seemed to be a student of the bible. (There was a nasty rumor going around at one point that she had expressed 'interest' in pedophilia on a journal entry, but it was 2006 and what she ACTUALLY did was link an article about the Rep. Mark Foley scandal which was ocurring at that time. She then went on to offhandedly mention the bible. I hated not being able to clear that up here when I knew people believed it and I hope I can set the record straight now without violating TOS.)

The two times I got scared that I was wrong were:

1) When the car search warrants were leaked. The red tape and belts/restraints looked bad. But I also believed the family was too smart (KG is an MIT grad) to do anything so insanely stupid. Still, that was a crappy few days here and I know it convinced a lot of people of their guilt.

2) The rumors a few weeks ago that the family was all in custody. Which reminds me: I wondered at the time if the actual perp started the rumors. I wonder again, or maybe it was a friend of his. The rumor was so specific: "all three are in custody". My heart SANK. Fortunately LDH showed up that night to set the record straight. Never been so relieved to see 'verified insider' in my life.

I know people will continue to judge them for letting her go out alone, and for not dialing 911 sooner, but I honestly believe with him being just two doors down and them believing she was next door playing, Alanna was doomed before any parent would have called 911. He was going to act this stuff out eventually, the Gallaghers just got unlucky. Second-guessing their parenting now is unbelievably cruel, and I wonder what is wrong in the FB posters' lives who are still doing so now.

 

[Wondergirl]

If he set the fires...then clearly he WAS a danger to others. What if someone had been injured or killed in the fire? I know LE could not make an arrest until they had the match, but they probably should not have acted as though no one else was in danger. If he did the fires, they could not have been watching him, or the victim's home, very carefully.

BBM: Wow, great point, wth? I just assumed they had him under 24 hour surveillance, but, they must not have.

The processing of the DNA took way too long. Someone else could have been murdered.

JMO

 

[Wondergirl]

Is there any news today?

 

[Midwestmama78]

I meant to say earlier that AG's rape & murder were probably an escalation by TH from lesser offenses, and almost certainly from fantasies along the same lines. Offenders of this type rarely go straight to acting on their impulses to this degree.

 

[Wondergirl]

After the murder of six-year-old Alanna Gallagher in Saginaw, neighbor Tyler Holder confirmed to WFAA's Monika Diaz that he had been questioned by police.

http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/offi...aginaw-216586751.html?gallery=y&c=y&img=1&c=y

 

[Midwestmama78]

BBM: Wow, great point, wth? I just assumed they had him under 24 hour surveillance, but, they must not have.

The processing of the DNA took way too long. Someone else could have been murdered.

JMO

Possible that someone else could have been murdered, but if AH was a budding serial killer, there's usually a cooling off period between kills. Although who knows how long his cooling off period would have been. IMO.

There's also the arson to consider, too, assuming that was indeed AH. Screwed up in so many ways.

 

[ArianeEmory]

BBM: Wow, great point, wth? I just assumed they had him under 24 hour surveillance, but, they must not have.

The processing of the DNA took way too long. Someone else could have been murdered.

JMO

I may be being naive/idealistic about this, but I'm hoping they let him go through with the fires (if it was him) rather than risk him being aware he was under surveillance. That could be the reason someone even called it in at 2:30 in the morning.

Remember, the fires happened before they had their DNA matches back, and before they had the garbage matches (tape/trash bags) from Monday 7/22's trash pickup. Their case was arguably still not watertight.

 

[margarita25]

<o/t, but for anyone following Brenna Machus' and Joe Orlando's thread, there's been an arrest!! :rockon: Awaiting identity of suspect!>

 

[Linda7NJ]

I meant to say earlier that AG's rape & murder were probably an escalation by TH from lesser offenses, and almost certainly from fantasies along the same lines. Offenders of this type rarely go straight to acting on their impulses to this degree.

I hope they look very closely at any relative children and children of family friends. If he ever had contact with mine, I'd want mine interviewed by professionals to determine if molestation occurred on any level.

The crimes against Alanna were so brutal. There is no way he could have gotten away with that, he had to kill her. By all accounts Alanna was intelligent and a spitfire. If this started out as molestation ... He quickly learned he wasn't keeping her quiet about it. Maybe it angered him, maybe the thought of killing her aroused him even more.


All IMO

 

[greenpalm]

What about the friend he was seen walking around with and wanted to start a neighborhood watch?

What about another neighbor? Was he friendly with anyone? Young or old?

Did I read right, another neighbor had tipped him off LEO were coming?

Surely someone involved would have been in contact before via phone or online...and probably after. This knucklehead doesn't appear savvy or fearful at anything. I believe he believed he covered all his bases IMO

It's just SO typical. The perp inserts themselves into the investigation in some way. Ryan Brunn did it with Jorelys Rivera, (I believe he was "helpful" by getting a photograph of Jorelys from her mother to assist in the door to door search)

Shawn Morgan, joined the man across the street in the search for Breeann Rodriguez

One of the perps in the Autumn Pasquale case was at the vigil and I believe came to a search.

They do it over and over again. That's why investigators were at Alanna's funeral. They wanted to keep an eye on the folks who showed up.

Most of what I know about profiling comes from the murder of my classmate Danielle. But the article about her talks about profiling. It's amazing how much they can "know" is likely about a perp from that.

http://www.dmagazine.com/Home/1990/01/01/technology_Vs_trimboli.aspx

From the beginning, it seemed Trimboli was everywhere, talking to reporters, police, and neighbors. "I just kept thinking my daughter could have been down there," Trimboli told one television reporter. The next day, Trimboli talked to Laura Miller, who was covering the murders for The Dallas Morning News.
"There was a family here just yesterday looking at the house across the street from us," Trimboli told Miller. "And I was telling them how peaceful and quiet it was here. And now look what’s nappened. It’s just unbelievable.1’ The girls viewed him and D.C. as their second mother and father, he told reporters; Renee had even sent him a Father’s Day card. In fact, Trimboli went on, he had planned to take the two Lemieux girls to Six Flags Over Texas with his family that day. but the trip had been canceled by Joanne, who told him they were doing something with their father. Joanne would later deny such plans ever existed.
At the funeral for the two girls. Ron hugged Joanne. She came by the Trimboli home the next day, bringing Hope a necklace that had belonged to Renee. But that was before police found Ron Trimboli’s palm prints on the top and side of the dryer. Even before the laundry room floor grew slick with blood, a person standing there, and leaning over to stab John Bradley to death, might have wanted to brace himself by putting a hand on that dryer.

Here's where we talked about this before, and sure enough it's proven to be true:

I know some links have been posted way up thread. I believe IBsleuthin posted some, possibly this very link. But I didn't find as many get involved in the investigation as I thought. But it does say the killer's name is almost always in the police files within the first week, so that much supports my opinion that police have already spoken with the killer.

There is a long list of typical child killer qualities at the link. It's pretty informative.

http://itsamysterytome.wordpress.com...their-victims/

10% of the child killers interjected themselves into the actual murder investigation.

In the initial study, the name of the killer was almost always in police files within the first week. When the supplemental cases were studied, that proved to no longer be the case. (does that mean the killers are getting smarter?)

Police usually have contact with the killer before he becomes a primary suspect.

So, I'm not terribly surprised that he went to the vigil (although the "wanted" t-shirt is beyond the pale)

I'm not surprised that he was out on the street telling neighbors who the LE had discovered (although he was an idiot to do it before they'd publicly identified her, duh)

I'm not surprised that he was trying to start a neighborhood watch.

 

[Midwestmama78]

I hope they look very closely at any relative children and children of family friends. If he ever had contact with mine, I'd want mine interviewed by professionals to determine if molestation occurred on any level.

The crimes against Alanna were so brutal. There is no way he could have gotten away with that, he had to kill her. By all accounts Alanna was intelligent and a spitfire. If this started out as molestation ... He quickly learned he wasn't keeping her quiet about it. Maybe it angered him, maybe the thought of killing her aroused him even more.


All IMO

I hope LE at least reveals whether he had a related record as a juvenile, so that concerned relatives and other parents will be alerted.

 

[greenpalm]

I meant to say earlier that AG's rape & murder were probably an escalation by TH from lesser offenses, and almost certainly from fantasies along the same lines. Offenders of this type rarely go straight to acting on their impulses to this degree.

Right, exactly. That's why I was asking earlier, what kinds of crimes could be in his juvenile record that would NOT result in DNA being on file?

Of course…*he could have committed crimes like that and not gotten caught, and I'm only assuming he has a juvie record.