MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

[shergal]

Or maybe they got what they wanted - which was Jacob. So there was no need to grab anyone else. And they just kept him wherever they live, like Jaycee Dugard's or Shawn Hornbeck's abductors did. And he's still alive just like Patty feels.

 

[cGorg]

I do not want to name a person. I am referring to the twitter account with the michae------name.

There is a person , if you call the person Michael, who is a running coach at a school called Churchill. There are other people with that name as well, so who knows.

sorry human...you're reading too much into my quote. I was simply using a quote by Winston Churchill that he is famous for and relating it to this case. I have no idea what you're talking about regarding a person named Michael from a Churchill school. Simply a coincidence.

 

[cGorg]

Or maybe they got what they wanted - which was Jacob. So there was no need to grab anyone else. And they just kept him wherever they live, like Jaycee Dugard's or Shawn Hornbeck's abductors did. And he's still alive just like Patty feels.

I have wondered about that too. Both Patty + Jerry have expressed the same feeling....that Jacob is still alive.

 

[human]

sorry human...you're reading too much into my quote. I was simply using a quote by Winston Churchill that he is famous for and relating it to this case. I have no idea what you're talking about regarding a person named Michael from a Churchill school. Simply a coincidence.

I guess you would have to go look up the twitter that I posted to understand what I sm talking about.

It is so weird because of the Churchill reference and then the enigma comment.

 

[cGorg]

I guess you would have to go look up the twitter that I posted to understand what I sm talking about.

It is so weird because of the Churchill reference and then the enigma comment.

human...sorry again...I did not see your post earlier....I just now clicked on it but it is gone! NOW I see why you asked if I was psychic. WOW....my Winston Churchill quote was simply off the top of my head but seeing your post connection I see why you wrote what you did. Very strange.

 

[cGorg]

timeline 9:40 to 11:23....if the police arrived at the Wetterlings at 9:40 then there was a span of time where they had to download the information from the boys...from what I read the boys indicated to the police where the abduction took place....did this happen physically or verbally? Did the police then go to the abduction site? And if they did...what time?

 

[Jbrown324320]

looks like I misspoke cGorg. sorry. I guess he didn't commented on the blog. Joy decided not to post some of my comments, so it doesn't mean he didn't post. He does know the blog exists from being interviewed from Joy.

 

[shergal]

timeline 9:40 to 11:23....if the police arrived at the Wetterlings at 9:40 then there was a span of time where they had to download the information from the boys...from what I read the boys indicated to the police where the abduction took place....did this happen physically or verbally? Did the police then go to the abduction site? And if they did...what time?

I imagine it took a little while to get coherent statements from Aaron and Trevor. I think they may have waited until Patty and Jerry got back home, not sure. Merle called Jacob's parents after his 911 call, and they weren't that far away - 1/2 hour drive maybe? From what I recall reading, I think the boys just told LE where it had happened and they stayed at Wetterlings home while LE went and looked.

Kevin mentions there was no tape up yet at the scene when he arrived there, but when he talked to the cop in the car after he went in Tom Thumb, that cop already knew about the bikes. so, hmmm. There's a definite time gap. Maybe LE spent some time just searching up and down the road and in ditches in case Jacob had been harmed and left there?

 

[cGorg]

I imagine it took a little while to get coherent statements from Aaron and Trevor. I think they may have waited until Patty and Jerry got back home, not sure. Merle called Jacob's parents after his 911 call, and they weren't that far away - 1/2 hour drive maybe? From what I recall reading, I think the boys just told LE where it had happened and they stayed at Wetterlings home while LE went and looked.

Kevin mentions there was no tape up yet at the scene when he arrived there, but when he talked to the cop in the car after he went in Tom Thumb, that cop already knew about the bikes. so, hmmm. There's a definite time gap. Maybe LE spent some time just searching up and down the road and in ditches in case Jacob had been harmed and left there?

So we've got:

9:00 to 9:15 (I'm guessing) Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue car turn around in his farmhouse driveway
9:15 Abduction
9:32 Merle's 911 call to police
9:40 Police arrive at Wetterlings house(according to blog St Autumn, boys tell police where abduction spot is and officers go there. If so, why did the police + Kevin not see each other)
9:45-10 As per Joy's blog, Kevin + friends finish playing cards, hear info on scanner, see police cars go by, then decide to check it out. (is Kevin's time off in this sequence?)
10:00 DR goes to bed
10:05-10:10 Jerry + Patty arrive at their house....what did they see when they went past the abduction spot?
10:00-10:10? Kevin drives his car to abduction site, sees no officers or crime tape, sees the bikes, drives all the way through DR's driveway then heads to the Tom Thumb...sees 2 'cops(1 'medical cop', 1 'new cop') Why does Smokey not bark when this car goes through entire driveway? Where are the police? Why is the crime scene unsecured?
10:10-11:23 What is happening in this time frame? Helicopters in this time frame or after 11:23? If helicopters, how does DR sleep thru this? If not helicopters, are police searching on foot?
11:23 After being awoken by Smokey barking, DR places 911 call regarding people in the woodpile
post 11:23...helicopters and search parties in this time frame?

something's not right with the whole scenario not sure what it is but bottom line is the perp had a solid 20 minutes to exit in a car or on foot (9:15-9:35)

 

[human]

So we've got:

9:00 to 9:15 (I'm guessing) Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue car turn around in his farmhouse driveway
9:15 Abduction
9:32 Merle's 911 call to police
9:40 Police arrive at Wetterlings house(according to blog St Autumn, boys tell police where abduction spot is and officers go there. If so, why did the police + Kevin not see each other)
9:45-10 As per Joy's blog, Kevin + friends finish playing cards, hear info on scanner, see police cars go by, then decide to check it out. (is Kevin's time off in this sequence?)
10:00 DR goes to bed
10:05-10:10 Jerry + Patty arrive at their house....what did they see when they went past the abduction spot?
10:00-10:10? Kevin drives his car to abduction site, sees no officers or crime tape, sees the bikes, drives all the way through DR's driveway then heads to the Tom Thumb...sees 2 'cops(1 'medical cop', 1 'new cop') Why does Smokey not bark when this car goes through entire driveway? Where are the police? Why is the crime scene unsecured?
10:10-11:23 What is happening in this time frame? Helicopters in this time frame or after 11:23? If helicopters, how does DR sleep thru this? If not helicopters, are police searching on foot?
11:23 After being awoken by Smokey barking, DR places 911 call regarding people in the woodpile
post 11:23...helicopters and search parties in this time frame?

something's not right with the whole scenario not sure what it is but bottom line is the perp had a solid 20 minutes to exit in a car or on foot (9:15-9:35)

Great synopsis

 

[shergal]

So we've got:

9:00 to 9:15 (I'm guessing) Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue car turn around in his farmhouse driveway
9:15 Abduction
9:32 Merle's 911 call to police
9:40 Police arrive at Wetterlings house(according to blog St Autumn, boys tell police where abduction spot is and officers go there. If so, why did the police + Kevin not see each other)
9:45-10 As per Joy's blog, Kevin + friends finish playing cards, hear info on scanner, see police cars go by, then decide to check it out. (is Kevin's time off in this sequence?)
10:00 DR goes to bed
10:05-10:10 Jerry + Patty arrive at their house....what did they see when they went past the abduction spot?
10:00-10:10? Kevin drives his car to abduction site, sees no officers or crime tape, sees the bikes, drives all the way through DR's driveway then heads to the Tom Thumb...sees 2 'cops(1 'medical cop', 1 'new cop') Why does Smokey not bark when this car goes through entire driveway? Where are the police? Why is the crime scene unsecured?
10:10-11:23 What is happening in this time frame? Helicopters in this time frame or after 11:23? If helicopters, how does DR sleep thru this? If not helicopters, are police searching on foot?
11:23 After being awoken by Smokey barking, DR places 911 call regarding people in the woodpile
post 11:23...helicopters and search parties in this time frame?

something's not right with the whole scenario not sure what it is but bottom line is the perp had a solid 20 minutes to exit in a car or on foot (9:15-9:35)

Patty and Jerry's actual time of arrival at home and what they saw when they drove through the abduction site are things that could be checked on for exact info. Even if they saw the bikes in their headlights, they may have just wanted to get straight home first. It is very strange that Wetterlings arriving home, cops going to scene, and Kevin out driving around, never bumped into each other on this same dead end road. Also, the blue car turning around at the beginning, we only have DR's word on that.

Interesting also that Smokey barked at the blue car but not at Kevin's car. And why is the "new" cop just parked across from the Tom Thumb sitting in his car instead of out securing scene or searching?

 

[human]

As far as the medical cop as a suspect, why take Jacob and put him where? While he is hanging around Tom Thumb?

 

[cGorg]

I think I have a little more clarity on the synopsis:

9:00-9:15- Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue(or black) car drive thru the farmstead
9:15- Abduction occurs
9:32- Merle's 911 call to police
9:40- Police arrive at Wetterling house. I'm thinking here that it does take some time for LE to download the information from the boys before proceeding to abduction site)
9:45-10-Kevin + girlfriend(and friends hear scanner + see police cars go by). Since they live relatively close(not verified yet) they make it to the abduction site prior to LE, drive ALL the way through DR's farmstead driveway. Smokey does not bark(explanation anywhere for this?) Kevin drives to Tom Thumb, sees 'medical cop', then notices LE squad car at Cotton Dentist office, talks to him, cop says 'we know about the bikes'
10:00- DR goes to bed
10:05-10:20(I don't have any info on this) Since Merle's 911 call was at 9:32 and lasted several minutes, he then called Jerry + Patty in Clearwater. So I would assume the earliest they could be getting into their car would be 9:40. 25-30 minute drive puts arrival at 10:10. However, according to the Saint Autumn blog quoting Patty as saying they met a squad car on their road and the police escorted them to their house. I am wondering if LE waited at the Wetterling house before proceeding to the abduction site.
10:20-11:23- no info on what's happening in this time frame
11:23- Smokey barks, DR places 911 call regarding people searching the woodpile
So my point is: seems a plausible scenario. Kevin arrived at the abduction site first as LE was at the Wetterlings. Kevin sees the 'medical cop'(whom I cannot explain) and also sees the 'new cop' parked at dentist's office. Is this the cop that met the Wetterlings on the road before proceeding to their house? If so, Kevin, the police, and the Wetterlings did not cross paths going to and fro. My questions:

1. Why did Smokey not bark when Kevin's car drove all the way through the driveway?
2. Why was there not a police officer at the abduction site when Kevin arrived there? Were they short of officers? Or did Kevin get there too quickly?
3. When did the helicopters arrive?
4. DR's comment about being 100% sure that the tan car that went through his driveway in the afternoon being the perp: what is the logic here? is there any connection of this tan car to the abduction scenario?
5. is it possible that a statement or statements within what's been stated is not true?

 

[human]

I wonder how many squads came.

Did the fire department come also?

The fire dept where I live are First Responders.

If there was a missing child, the fire dept would be on the scene where I live. Volunteer FD.

There had to be a tremendous amount of commotion in the neighborhhod.

 

[jenilou]

Not to get off topic, but I've often wondered if it was DR, if he committed any other abductions....Des Moines is only about 4 hours from St. Joe. In March 1986 13 year old Marc James Warren-Allen disappeared (his dad lived in MN), We all know about 12 year old Johnny Gosch from September 1982 and then Eugene Martin another 13 year old paperboy from August 1984.

I'm not sure it would be such a stretch to think someone would travel 4 1/2 or 5 hours to commit a crime. Especially when one is a locally known teacher.

There may be no connection but then again- anything is possible. I wonder if the authorities in Des Moines have looked into DR?

 

[shergal]

I think I have a little more clarity on the synopsis:

9:00-9:15- Smokey barks, DR sees a dark blue(or black) car drive thru the farmstead
9:15- Abduction occurs
9:32- Merle's 911 call to police
9:40- Police arrive at Wetterling house. I'm thinking here that it does take some time for LE to download the information from the boys before proceeding to abduction site)
9:45-10-Kevin + girlfriend(and friends hear scanner + see police cars go by). Since they live relatively close(not verified yet) they make it to the abduction site prior to LE, drive ALL the way through DR's farmstead driveway. Smokey does not bark(explanation anywhere for this?) Kevin drives to Tom Thumb, sees 'medical cop', then notices LE squad car at Cotton Dentist office, talks to him, cop says 'we know about the bikes'
10:00- DR goes to bed
10:05-10:20(I don't have any info on this) Since Merle's 911 call was at 9:32 and lasted several minutes, he then called Jerry + Patty in Clearwater. So I would assume the earliest they could be getting into their car would be 9:40. 25-30 minute drive puts arrival at 10:10. However, according to the Saint Autumn blog quoting Patty as saying they met a squad car on their road and the police escorted them to their house. I am wondering if LE waited at the Wetterling house before proceeding to the abduction site.
10:20-11:23- no info on what's happening in this time frame
11:23- Smokey barks, DR places 911 call regarding people searching the woodpile
So my point is: seems a plausible scenario. Kevin arrived at the abduction site first as LE was at the Wetterlings. Kevin sees the 'medical cop'(whom I cannot explain) and also sees the 'new cop' parked at dentist's office. Is this the cop that met the Wetterlings on the road before proceeding to their house? If so, Kevin, the police, and the Wetterlings did not cross paths going to and fro. My questions:

1. Why did Smokey not bark when Kevin's car drove all the way through the driveway?
2. Why was there not a police officer at the abduction site when Kevin arrived there? Were they short of officers? Or did Kevin get there too quickly?
3. When did the helicopters arrive?
4. DR's comment about being 100% sure that the tan car that went through his driveway in the afternoon being the perp: what is the logic here? is there any connection of this tan car to the abduction scenario?
5. is it possible that a statement or statements within what's been stated is not true?

And WHY did Kevin drive all the way through DR's driveway? And then go back to Tom Thumb? It's hard for me to believe in the dark night he or his gf wouldn't have seen the glow of flashing cop lights through the tree limbs up on Kiwi Court and kept heading that way.

 

[shergal]

I wonder how many squads came.

Did the fire department come also?

The fire dept where I live are First Responders.

If there was a missing child, the fire dept would be on the scene where I live. Volunteer FD.

There had to be a tremendous amount of commotion in the neighborhhod.

I seem to recall from Kevin's account, that there were only 3 police officers in St. Joe at that time. The 2 he knew and the "new cop." FD comes now for police or ambulance calls locally, but they usually didn't back in 1989. They may have been out later helping search. I think helicopters and FBI showed up later around midnight? I'd have to check Garber's report.

 

[cGorg]

And WHY did Kevin drive all the way through DR's driveway? And then go back to Tom Thumb? It's hard for me to believe in the dark night he or his gf wouldn't have seen the glow of flashing cop lights through the tree limbs up on Kiwi Court and kept heading that way.

That's a good point regarding the flashing cop lights at the Wetterling house. As I've already indicated previously, one could see from DR's driveway to the Wetterling neighborhood....and there were no leaves on the trees.

 

[cGorg]

I seem to recall from Kevin's account, that there were only 3 police officers in St. Joe at that time. The 2 he knew and the "new cop." FD comes now for police or ambulance calls locally, but they usually didn't back in 1989. They may have been out later helping search. I think helicopters and FBI showed up later around midnight? I'd have to check Garber's report.

Yes, I read that as well...only 3 officers in St Joe at the time. Regarding the helicopters....that makes sense that they arrived later than 11:23 or even midnight.

I simply wonder if the abduction site was devoid of activity while the police were at the Wetterling house....could that even be possible? Would 2 policeman have been at Wetterlings and the 3rd awaiting Jerry + Patty's return? Read Saint Autumns account. That has some different details.
I'm wondering what the level of commotion was at the abduction site after the abduction.

 

[cGorg]

Tire Tracks:

A farm driveway would have alot of tire tracks. If DR was home all day and had 1 saxophone lesson with a student then what does that leave us?
1. Saxophone lesson student....I assume a parent or the student drove a car.
2. Tan colored crazy car in the afternoon
3. Dark blue or black car near the abduction time.
4. Kevin's car after the abduction

That's 4 cars in 1 day. LE made its decision that the perp was on foot after Kevin came forward in 2003(4?). What about the other tire tracks? Were there any? Let's say for the sake of argument that Kevin never drove his car onto the driveway....would LE have still pursued the car theory based on other tire tracks? Certainly there were other tracks there...at least the saxophone students car. What made Kevin's tire tracks decisive....decisive enough to pursue a different theory altogether?