4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #92

[wendy44]

One thing for sure, and it is an observation, everything presented in this case works backwards time wise. It's an attempt to connect BK to the beginning of the crime. This is why AT is still confused about the point, the time, the date of when BK first became the prime suspect in the PCA because the events didn't happen in the order the PCA is presented. 12/12/22 is the pivotal date in the investigation, that's when they decided upon BK, but that's before the results of the IGG. Read it.

I don't think we know when the results of the IGG came in--do you have a link that says they decided on BK before the results of the IGG? Because, if that's true, the IGG really doesn't matter--the defense can't use it to try to get the DNA thrown out and neither defense nor prosecution will bring it up at trial (the defense has already said they won't and I doubt the prosecution would risk it). JMO

 

[purplehaze66]

I don't think the request has anything to do with the fact that it is touch DNA. She wants to challenge his identification as a suspect through the use of genetic genealogy. She mentioned in the last court hearing that she has read through the material many times and is still at a loss as to how he came to be identified as a suspect. I listened to Paul Holes discuss the issue of genetic genealogy being used to narrow down the suspect pool recently. He said it's just a starting point. On the podcast Buried Bones, they discussed a case where they eventually identified the killer using genetic genealogy. It is a starting point. Once they have a relative identified, that is when the work begins to look at what relatives are in the areas, the right age, sex, etc. In that case, three brothers could have been the killer. One was in the Navy at the time, so he was eliminated. Then, they collected DNA from one brother, and he was eliminated. That left the last brother. Still, they did not arrest him because they wanted to collect and compare his DNA before making that step. He died by suicide before that could happen, but, when they did compare his DNA to the DNA at the crime scene, it was a perfect match.

My understanding is that there is no way she is going to be able to challenge the genetic genealogy identification, but she is working hard to do it.

I don't even think the genetic genealogy matters much at this point. The campus police at BK's school also investigated and found that he had a car registered that matched the description of the car they were looking for. That alone would cause him to be looked at closely.

His car didn't match the description. MPD said it was a 2011-2013 Elantra, he drove a 2015. MPD put out a press release on December 29th, one day before his arrest. In that release they still said they were looking for a 2011-2013 Elantra. At no time did they publicly say they were looking for an 2015 Elantra. And the DNA, there is so many issues with it and how it could have gotten on the sheath.

 

[SpiderFalcon]

https://s3.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR29-22-2805/061623+States+Motion+for+Protective+Order.pdf

 

[mickey2942]

Will follow this case to the end

Some cases are like that. This one, looks like it will go on forever. This guy has no where to go, nothing to look forward to but a guilty verdict and life in prison. So, he will string it out forever. Why not?!

 

[Boxer]

All they have is DNA on the alleged sheath. The DNA is presented it as a statistical match. The state is presenting that the SNP DNA profile came before the trash in Pennsylvania. The prosecution used a mathematical equation applying other probabilities to create the statistic. They present it in reverse to the courts, when in fact the probability is 1 in 5:37 Octillion, which is tiny, as opposed to 5:37 Octillion chances of it being BK's DNA which is a much greater probability, but still a small number. It's right there in the PCA. Read it.

One thing for sure, and it is an observation, everything presented in this case works backwards time wise. It's an attempt to connect BK to the beginning of the crime. This is why AT is still confused about the point, the time, the date of when BK first became the prime suspect in the PCA because the events didn't happen in the order the PCA is presented. 12/12/22 is the pivotal date in the investigation, that's when they decided upon BK, but that's before the results of the IGG. Read it.

Did they learn of BK's name from the tip line in relation to his car? Does the description of a suspect come from BK's drivers license? The witness described the suspect as a figure clad in black clothing and a WEARING A MASK. Only the Police know the description of suspect because they looked at his driving license.

AT is not "confused" she is searching for a procedural error with the capacity to carry an appeal.

 

[Boxer]

Pull the owner data of an Elantra found in Pullman, see the Drivers license, see the physical description and the prominent eyebrows... follow up invesigation.
Zero mystery.
The genealogy being done on the DNA found at the murder scene was running concurrently.

 

[MassGuy]

His car didn't match the description. MPD said it was a 2011-2013 Elantra, he drove a 2015. MPD put out a press release on December 29th, one day before his arrest. In that release they still said they were looking for a 2011-2013 Elantra. At no time did they publicly say they were looking for an 2015 Elantra. And the DNA, there is so many issues with it and how it could have gotten on the sheath.

That's what happens with descriptions of vehicles when law enforcement is relying upon sub-optimal surveillance video. Many times there is a much larger model year range than what was initially released here.

Let's say there is an innocent reason for his DNA to be on the sheath (touch DNA is in fact easily transferrable). That doesn't explain incredibly strong cell phone evidence that puts him in a location he had absolutely no business being (a dozen times), at times he had no business being there. During the time of the murder, his phone was either off or in airplane mode, and then back online as he traveled back to his residence. That he was traveling during those early morning hours, really isn't in dispute (even if the location can't be exactly proven). Like an arsonist who wants to see his handiwork, his cell phone puts him near the area hours after the killings as well. He also owned the same color car by the same manufacturer.

If the DNA on the Sheath isn't relevant to the murder, then Kohberger should have been easily eliminated via other means. Instead, it opened the door to damning evidence that not only did not eliminate him, but pointed the finger squarely at him.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

From my observation, and available plethora of pictures, any supposed differences if any visual or otherwise, between a circa 2011-2013 and a circa 2015 Hyundai Elantra appear almost nil or indistinguishable. MOO

 

[purplehaze66]

I think it's 6 octillion times more likely that the real killer was someone close to or familiar with the victims.

 

[North_Idaho_Nony]

We will see at trial when DM testifies if that is the case.

MOO, I find that (the bushy eyebrows) way down on my list of interesting evidence.

For me, I’m far more interested in the DNA evidence, the surveillance videos evidence, the cell phone evidence, etc.

We discussed many times in earlier threads about the legal strategy involved in drafting PCAs. Generally speaking, only as much evidence is included as is necessary to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant, MOO. That bar was clearly met in this case.

Indeed, it would be foolish, MOO, for the State to give away the store, so to speak, at that very early stage.

Again, MOO & YMMV, but any testimony about bushy eyebrows — or not — wouldn’t be compelling to me.

 

[MassGuy]

MOO, I find that (the bushy eyebrows) way down on my list of interesting evidence.

For me, I’m far more interested in the DNA evidence, the surveillance videos evidence, the cell phone evidence, etc.

We discussed many times in earlier threads about the legal strategy involved in drafting PCAs. Generally speaking, only as much evidence is included as is necessary to convince a judge to issue an arrest warrant, MOO. That bar was clearly met in this case.

Indeed, it would be foolish, MOO, for the State to give away the store, so to speak, at that very early stage.

Again, MOO & YMMV, but any testimony about bushy eyebrows — or not — wouldn’t be compelling to me.

Couldn’t agree more. In addition to anything not mentioned, you’d also have evidence that wasn’t yet available at the time of that document’s writing.

I really don’t care much about the witness’ description. It was dark, it was made during stress, and he was disguised. It does help, but not in a major way.

 

[Boxer]

We will see at trial when DM testifies if that is the case.

We will see what? The material she reported at the time simply does not exlude BK.

 

[Cool Cats]

Did they learn of BK's name from the tip line in relation to his car? Does the description of a suspect come from BK's drivers license? The witness described the suspect as a figure clad in black clothing and a WEARING A MASK. Only the Police know the description of suspect because they looked at his driving license.

It is important to fully read the PCA, many questions can be answered. The DNA wasn't even used in the arrest warrant, they had enough evidence without it.

Investigators were aware of Kohberger more than a month before his arrest.

On November 29, Daniel Tiengo, a WSU police officer, found a white Hyundai Elantra registered to Kohberger as he searched for vehicles matching the description of one seen near the scene on the night of the killings, according to a probable cause affidavit.

That information was passed to Corporal Brett Payne, the Moscow police's lead investigator. Payne typed the vehicle's details into the motor vehicles record system and saw Kohberger's drivers license photo and information matched the witnesses' description.

1.) Bushy eyebrows
2.) 5' 10 or taller - Kohberger is 6'
3.) Not muscular an athletic build - Kohberger weighs 180 which fits an athletic build but not muscular
4.) Male (white)

The number one most important evidence to a jury is DNA evidence. This case had enough evidence without the DNA to arrest him so it will be next to impossible for him to get an acquittal when DNA is presented to the jury on top of all the other staggering amounts of evidence.

What Evidence Matters to Jurors? The Prevalence and Importance of Different Homicide Trial Evidence to Mock Jurors

The present research explores how important different trial evidence is to mock jurors’ decisions. Study 1 surveys legal professionals to determine what evidence is common at homicide trials. Study 2 utilizes the list of evidence generated in ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Justice101]

I agree with you.

From what we all know now... with no trial evidence for or against BK presented yet... it sure looks like they have their man and I'm 95% sure they do.

I think it's 6 octillion times more likely that the real killer was someone close to or familiar with the victims.

I think statements like that would exclude you from juries

 

[Idaho transplant]

Some cases are like that. This one, looks like it will go on forever. This guy has no where to go, nothing to look forward to but a guilty verdict and life in prison. So, he will string it out forever. Why not?!

Life in prison? Is this because you think he won't get the death penalty or because of the length of time that prisoners spend on death row? Do you think that the prosecution will take the DP off the table?

 

[mickey2942]

Life in prison? Is this because you think he won't get the death penalty or because of the length of time that prisoners spend on death row? Do you think that the prosecution will take the DP off the table?

It really doesn't matter. If they stay with the DP, this guy will string this out forever, changing attorneys, pushing the trial date. Because all he has to look forward to is a guilty verdict.

If they take the DP off the table, it won't matter. He has nothing to lose. He probably doesn't care. His goal at this point is to obfuscate the judicial system. As long as there is no, "Guilty" verdict, he is treated as if he is "innocent'. Even in his own head.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It really doesn't matter. If they stay with the DP, this guy will string this out forever, changing attorneys, pushing the trial date. Because all he has to look forward to is a guilty verdict.

If they take the DP off the table, it won't matter. He has nothing to lose. He probably doesn't care. His goal at this point is to obfuscate the judicial system. As long as there is no, "Guilty" verdict, he is treated as if he is "innocent'. Even in his own head.

Agree completely. I am sure HE thought he would get away with this..elevating himself above the judicial system.... He will just play the judicial system to the max because that is the only game he can play now.

 

[Cool Cats]

Life in prison? Is this because you think he won't get the death penalty or because of the length of time that prisoners spend on death row? Do you think that the prosecution will take the DP off the table?

Death Row | Idaho Department of Correction

www.idoc.idaho.gov

Only three executions have occurred since Idaho enacted a new death penalty statute in 1977.
There are 8 people on death row.

Here is how long they have been there....

2017
2004
2004
1996
1993 - only female
1992
1986
1983

Yes I think the prosecution will take the DP off the table if BK offers to plead guilty to all 4 charges and gives some answers for the families.

I think the families would agree to this under the condition they got some answers from him. I don't think pleading guilty is enough, I think the families will want to know how he came to target their children and why he did it.

 

[schooling]

Thanks. The defense did say they are still waiting on more discovery to be handed to them. Is the important video AT mentioned the LL video from say 6am that morning till 11:58? If so, why does AT not have that footage in discovery? The PCA presents BK coming to the scene the next morning through phone records. If a white sedan is on the LL video that morning, from say sometime between 6am and 11:58, then it will also be on the King rd video, and it may be possible to see the driver. Is that the footage AT wants to see?

I don't think the affidavit ever mentions Kohlberger returning to the actual scene of the crime. Just that he was back within the range of the towers that cover the King Rd home. So I wouldnt' expect him to be caught on the same set of cameras.

Also, IMO, I don't think it matters if they have video of who's driving inside of the car. I've seen dozens of cases where grainy black and white footage of a vehicle was used to put a suspect in the area of a crime.

And I think the prosecution already gave us a preview of how they plan on answering the question of "how do we know it was Kohlberger driving the Elantra on that night". And the answer is in the PCA and the the grocery store video.

Early on the night of the murder, right before he turns off his cell phone the prosecution describes a video of a white Elantra at an intersection. And they cite that they have cellular evidence tied to Kohlberger that kind of confirms (in their minds) that it is him driving the car.

So now the precedent is kind of set that where we see the white elantra on video our cellular location data evidence should line up with it. And they reinforce this again....

After the murders...they again go out of their way in the PCA to tie the same set of cellular location data (he turned his phone back on) to a white Elantra to a CCTV video. With the presumption that it is Kohlberger driving the car.

Great. So they've been able to track this car by corroborating where BKs cell phone data says the white Elantra should be and the actual video of the exterior of the Elantra. But they still dont know whos driving it.

Then we have the grocery store.

It's a video of a white Elantra. Presumably also missing a front plate. Pulling into the grocery store parking lot. And again, like the night before we have cellular evidence lining up with this location and video of the car to prove it....

But only THIS TIME IMO, we can probably see Kohlberger in broad daylight, clearly exiting the vehicle. And I expect that they will be able to use this car + cell evidence + video thing on the days prior to the murders and the days after the murders. Forcing the jury to have to imagine an alternative universe where all of the evidence lines up except for a 4 hour gap on the night of the murders. Nothing about that sounds 'reasonable'.

That is PRETTY STRONG evidence IMO. Especially when we consider it along with the DNA pulled from the crime scene.

MOO

 

[schooling]

I don't think we know when the results of the IGG came in--do you have a link that says they decided on BK before the results of the IGG? Because, if that's true, the IGG really doesn't matter--the defense can't use it to try to get the DNA thrown out and neither defense nor prosecution will bring it up at trial (the defense has already said they won't and I doubt the prosecution would risk it). JMO

According to all available information and reporting the state lab pulled a local sample of the DNA first. That local sample did not hit on CODIS. So another sample was pulled for IGG indepdentendly from the local sample. Two completely different and distinct chains of custody.

Yes, the IGG was used to locate Kohlberger. But how do you fix that if the local sample matches Kohlberger and is completely unrelated to the IGG.

No matter what the defense does it's not going to change the fact that the sheath DNA is Kohlberger's DNA. Which is why the local sample continues to go unchallenged by them and they seem completely fine with pretending that it doesn't exist. MOO.


MOO.