Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #4

[ausleauther]

I have followed many missing person cases now, and my main conclusion is that anyone who abducts another person into their vehicle and kills them, or kills them and removes their body in their vehicle - is some type of psychopath. Whether it's a husband, a sexual predator, a guy looking to steal the vehicle or other valuables, someone who had an argument with them, or even just Leopold and Loeb looking to commit the perfect crime, is very hard to predict.

I see it as a more sophisticated criminal than the one who just kills the person on the spot and runs away.

Something brought the psychopath and the victim together at that place and time, and the psychopath had an issue that they resolved by killing the person and removing their body, or, even more chillingly, removing them from the scene alive in order to kill them later.

IMO the scenario cannot ever make sense to anyone but the psychopath themselves, because no normal person would behave that way.

JMO

LE must have more data from her phone and watch. I get the impression her watch picked up her final moments of life at Mt clear or it showed a lot of distress before her watch stopped working. I think she was run over by someone she knows because most people who run on dirt roads are very aware of cars coming from behind and always stay to 1 side to jump outve the way. If it was hit man the phones last ping would be with the mt clear with the watch and if it was an accident cover up LE would've found dump locations by now . The perp is someone very close to her and decided not to destroy her stuff

 

[Awakening]

She'd not long had COVID, perhaps walking was what she could manage. I say, as someone who precovid could manage an 8km walk in 1hr20m, but now counts it a big energy day if I can get through one yin yoga class a week. And I'm about ten years younger than Samantha. It can really mess with your stamina. It's messed with my circulation, too, all my blood pools in my feet, now, and I have to take breaks from standing while making dinner. We know that Samantha reportedly had low blood pressure. It could have been a result of having had COVID.

MOO

I feel for you. I had post covid syndrome (like long covid but thankfully doesn’t go for longer than 3 months).

Look it could be that. Although she apparently she said she was going to do a 14km run. I would have expected her to say she was still recovering so was going to walk.

I would not have attempted a 14km walk or run by myself in mostly bush if I wasn’t fully recovered but I’m not her.

As other posters said 14km is oddly specific and her phone turning off at arguably the half way point is another slightly odd factor.

Of course these could be individual nuances.

“Superintendent Hatt claimed the 7km run to where her phone went dead took the experienced runner more than an hour - about half-an-hour longer than it should have.”

The fact Hatt comments on her taking longer than expected makes me wonder if this is a comment directed to the suspect/s?

Hatt says she took “more than an hour”. So I assume less than an hour and half or he would have said that. So I will assume it’s around 75 minutes to do 7km.

Even if she was recovering from covid and doing a walk run combo she shouldn’t have taken that long.

That’s 11 minutes splits on
average. If she was doing a walk/run it would be faster than that, maybe 8 minute splits.

IMO this is not consistent with an experienced runner running the whole way or even doing a run/walk combo the whole way.

This is more consistent with someone walking at a brisk pace the whole way. Or a non runner walking fast in between a slow jog.

I personally think this comment from Hatt is significant.

What has actually happened here?

She’s either run at her normal pace and then stopped for a decent amount of time? Why? To talk to someone?

Did she actually meet someone when she entered the forest and slowed her pace to match theirs? If so you would expect someone saw her with someone else.

Did something happened to her soon after she entered the forest and the offender then walked that remaining distance before turning the phone off? And it just happened to be at the 7km mark.

Or did someone who wasn’t a runner take her phone/watch to make it appear she went for a run or make it appear that she got further away from home then she actually did?

If so this would suggest someone who was familiar with her routes. JMO.

 

[SouthAussie]

“Superintendent Hatt claimed the 7km run to where her phone went dead took the experienced runner more than an hour - about half-an-hour longer than it should have.”

I posted a bit further back (transcribed directly from the presser) ... Mark Hatt did not say that.

Not any of it.
Not phone went dead
Not more than an hour
Not ½ an hour longer than it should have.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

In a special edition of Under Investigation this week Liz Hayes and a team of experts travel to Ballarat to delve into the mysterious disappearance of 51-year-old Samantha Murphy.

The team, which includes veteran missing persons specialist Valentine Smith, former Victorian detective Damian Marrett and mineshaft explorer Raymond Shaw, will examine bush trails and retrace Samantha Murphy’s steps when she set out from her home on her early morning run on February 4.

The team will also hear from Sissy Austin, who survived a brutal attack while also jogging in the bushland a year before Samantha Murphy’s disappearance. Her exclusive presence at the Under Investigation War Table offers the team invaluable insights and local knowledge.

Under Investigation will also analyse the critical evidence that may ultimately solve this mystery. Technology specialist Nigel Phair will follow Samantha’s digital footsteps and the vital data collected from the phone she was carrying and the watch she was wearing – extraordinary digital clues to her last movements.

Wednesday at 9.00pm on Nine.

Under Investigation: Feb 28 | TV Tonight

Liz Hayes and expert panel travel to Ballarat to retrace the steps Samantha Murphy undertook on her early morning run.

tvtonight.com.au

 

[ausleauther]

Yet another great thought SA. People who engage in that sort of behaviour IMO have no morals and are also committing a crime by doing it. So if someone calls them or they out. They will not be happy, especially if the dumpers outnumber the person who called them out. And especially if it is a lone woman in a secluded area.

Most people dumping that sort of rubbish would just take a fine before taking someone's life.

 

[Dotta]

In a special edition of Under Investigation this week Liz Hayes and a team of experts travel to Ballarat to delve into the mysterious disappearance of 51-year-old Samantha Murphy.

The team, which includes veteran missing persons specialist Valentine Smith, former Victorian detective Damian Marrett and mineshaft explorer Raymond Shaw, will examine bush trails and retrace Samantha Murphy’s steps when she set out from her home on her early morning run on February 4.

The team will also hear from Sissy Austin, who survived a brutal attack while also jogging in the bushland a year before Samantha Murphy’s disappearance. Her exclusive presence at the Under Investigation War Table offers the team invaluable insights and local knowledge.

Under Investigation will also analyse the critical evidence that may ultimately solve this mystery. Technology specialist Nigel Phair will follow Samantha’s digital footsteps and the vital data collected from the phone she was carrying and the watch she was wearing – extraordinary digital clues to her last movements.

Wednesday at 9.00pm on Nine.

Under Investigation: Feb 28 | TV Tonight

Liz Hayes and expert panel travel to Ballarat to retrace the steps Samantha Murphy undertook on her early morning run.

tvtonight.com.au

Sounds interesting!

I wonder if I will be able to watch it in Europe?
On YouTube maybe?

Well,
To think that now I'm following 4 Australian threads:
- Samantha's disappearance
- a policeman who (allegedly) murdered 2 men
- a woman who (allegedly) murdered her elderly parents using insulin
- 2 dead children found in a suitcase.

 

[solari]

Respectfully, I disagree; "keeping him in line" said in "jest" in Australia, is a statement used to cover up & make light of inappropriate, bad or so-called larikin-ish (usually male) behaviour, with an inherent underlying suggestion of risk-taking & immaturity in the one who has to be "kept in line". It also suggests that responsibility & taking care of things properly rests with the individual (usually female, a mother role, so to speak) tasked with keeping the other immature party "in line", which can lead to resentment by the party being "kept in line". This seemingly innocent phrase carries a lot of weight, imo. When I first read it in SM's job/role description at the family business, this phrase stood out to me regarding her personal & professional relationship with her husband & business partner. I think I read that SM & MM were teen sweethearts? If that was the case, SM would have had to have been "keeping him in line" for a long time :-( . Someone being "kept in line", especially over a long time, may well end up resenting being "kept in line" at some point. Or they may be fearful &/or angry if it looks like they were going to lose the person keeping them "in line", as then who will be responsible for their actions & risk taking?! Who will make things right?! Not the person who needs to be "kept in line". Really, few people want to have to be another person's "keeper". While this is my opinion only, I speak from personal experience of having being married to a so-called "larrikin" risk taker for 30 years, who I finally left when the kids were grown, as I was over being his keeper & keeping him in line. I note that when a woman leaves, or intends to a leave a relationship, is the most high-risk time for her. I also note that "tradies industries" are amongst the most misogynistic in Australia, so just because "keeping him in line" may be a seemingly "normalised" phrase in "tradies industry", this does not make it ok.

As an Aussie I believe you are both right and it depends on the situation and which way it's meant/implied, jmo

 

[ZombieKittie]

Sounds interesting!

I wonder if I will be able to watch it in Europe?
On YouTube maybe?

Well,
To think that now I'm following 4 Australian threads:
- Samantha's disappearance
- a policeman who (allegedly) murdered 2 men
- a woman who (allegedly) murdered her elderly parents using insulin
- 2 dead children found in a suitcase.

The episodes of Under Investigation are usually posted to youtube a day or 2 after they air on tv

 

[Awakening]

I haven’t run for a year or more. I must get back into it!

But for a number of years I was a regular 5km run, and was friends with a number of runners (still am!) and follow a number of running things across various social media.

Anyway, I was a slow runner and 7km was my absolute maximum (only did it a handful of times) and it took me 45 minutes to do 7km and like I said I’m a slow runner, and I’m short distance not long.

It’s actually difficult to slow down your natural pace. You have a natural rhythm you fall into. That’s why you might wear a watch, to remind yourself to slow down (if you want to do a slower run that day) maintain a pace or go faster.

I’m only a few years younger than SM. I didn’t consistently use running apps like plenty most younger folks do.

Would be interesting to hear from other runners, particularly long distance ones who regularly do 10 to 20km.

There could be a perfectly logical explanation but for me there are a couple of anomalies in her taking over an hour to get to a 7km mark (if that’s what happened, maybe her phone only made it to the 7km mark, not her).

She was already planning a shorter run then her reported normal 20km run, so if she was feeling under the weather I’m not sure why she’d aim for 14km. She would have turned around sooner.

Especially when you consider she had an appointment or a brunch that morning and needed to allow time to get ready for that.

 

[solari]

While the "keeping in line" phrase may have been accepted & normalised within the family, business & general social community construct in this instance, & in that of many other - including seemingly here in this forum - I don't think it is actually ok for this to be "ok". This attitude diminishes & provides a get out of jail free card for the actions & responsibilities of the person who needs to "be kept in line". If someone apparently needs to still be "kept in line" as an adult, in a child-like way, this also suggests an immaturity, or Peter-Pan like personality. I am not suggesting that this phrase as used in this instance has any direct bearing on this case, only that it possibly provides an interesting insight into relationship dynamics and attitudes generally. MOO, from my own experience, which also informs me that sometimes the "keeper" can become weary of always doing the "keeping", especially when the actual children have grown & no longer need as much "keeping" any more.

Definitions of "keep in line" include:
Other forms: kept in line; keeping in line; keeps in line
To keep in line is to maintain control over someone, the way a teacher contains the actions of his students as they walk to recess or a military commander restricts her battalion's movements.

1. verb
   control (others or oneself) or influence skillfully, usually to one's advantage
   “she keeps in line”
   synonyms:control, manipulate

From: keep in line : https://vocab.com/d/keep in line

Well there's definitions and then there's cultural relationships to words and expressions. As an Aussie Ive know many people and partners who will say "Yeah the Missus (female partner) keeps me in line" in other words, stops them from doing stupid things because they have more going for them in their life and it's not all about being a hooligan or a "ratbag" as we endearingly say in some parts of aust.

 

[Awakening]

I posted a bit further back (transcribed directly from the presser) ... Mark Hatt did not say that.

Not any of it.
Not phone went dead
Not more than an hour
Not ½ an hour longer than it should have.

Oh. Well I just wasted a whole lot of time then.

Edited to add: wondered where I got it from, and see its DM. Argh!

I will have to scroll back to find your posts SA. See exactly what was said.

Anyone else like me in their late 40s or older remember when journalism meant getting your facts straight, no click bait, no opinions (or it was clearly marked opinion piece) and if there was an error it was corrected the next day. The good old days!

 

[Karin1974]

Sounds interesting!

I wonder if I will be able to watch it in Europe?
On YouTube maybe?

Well,
To think that now I'm following 4 Australian threads:
- Samantha's disappearance
- a policeman who (allegedly) murdered 2 men
- a woman who (allegedly) murdered her elderly parents using insulin
- 2 dead children found in a suitcase.

IMO - Well you need to get up to speed asap as it appears you’ve missed the woman who’s been charged with murder (3 x people) & attempted murder (2 x people) using poisonous mushrooms!!!! (Said in jest ).

 

[Dotta]

IMO - Well you need to get up to speed asap as it appears you’ve missed the woman who’s been charged with murder (3 x people) & attempted murder (2 x people) using poisonous mushrooms!!!! (Said in jest ).

Well
I decided to skip it.
I love mushrooms!!!!!!

 

[Awakening]

Well there's definitions and then there's cultural relationships to words and expressions. As an Aussie Ive know many people and partners who will say "Yeah the Missus (female partner) keeps me in line" in other words, stops them from doing stupid things because they have more going for them in their life and it's not all about being a hooligan or a "ratbag" as we endearingly say in some parts of aust.

IMO these types of phrases; the missus, gotta ask the boss, keeping him in line, the handbrake and so on is more common in people that are a bit older, tradies, in country areas. Nothing unusual about it imo.

 

[A Spade]

Well there's definitions and then there's cultural relationships to words and expressions. As an Aussie Ive know many people and partners who will say "Yeah the Missus (female partner) keeps me in line" in other words, stops them from doing stupid things because they have more going for them in their life and it's not all about being a hooligan or a "ratbag" as we endearingly say in some parts of aust.

As an Australian, who has heard this phrase many times - & yes, generally in "jest" - I consider it as bad & complicit as "boys will be boys". I also think that it provides good cover for the person (whatever gender, though notably usually male) who has to be "kept in line" - it provides them with a certain legitimacy so that it seems they are being held accountable to do the right thing (whatever it may be), however, often they're still doing the "thing", as otherwise, where would be the fun in that?! It's in their nature. Anyhow, will step off my "kept in line" soapbox now.

 

[ProfCluezo]

i always bookmark the last thread im on so its easy to find

Thank you

 

[BreakingNews]

You could be onto something there @SouthAussie! An altercation early morning with someone dumping rubbish - it's a possibility.

Brittain Street is mentioned in the photograph, is that a street Samantha would be running on that Sunday morning?

Good thinking, but that would mean a complete random misadventure for Sam. Random homicide less than 10% chance. This theory doesn't match up to being well planned. I don't think it is a random encounter at all. Someone known to her. MOO.

 

[Dotta]

As an Australian, who has heard this phrase many times - & yes, generally in "jest" - I consider it as bad & complicit as "boys will be boys". I also think that it provides good cover for the person (whatever gender, though notably usually male) who has to be "kept in line" - it provides them with a certain legitimacy so that it seems they are being held accountable to do the right thing (whatever it may be), however, often they're still doing the "thing", as otherwise, where would be the fun in that?! It's in their nature. Anyhow, will step off my "kept in line" soapbox now.

I see this expression as directed mainly to kids.

It somehow indicates immaturity of a person who must be "kept in line".

It seems OK during family party as a joke,
but not in business setting.

JMO

 

[ProfCluezo]

Once I've commented on a thread, it shows up under 'Forums' as "Threads with your posts", which will be highlighted if there's new postings, and will take you to all the unread comments since your last visit.

Another way is to put the thread on your Watch List. Top right of any page on the thread has a button says 'Watch'. Again, threads with news posts will be highlighted on your Watched Threads list.

Thank you so much, really appreciate this so much

 

[BreakingNews]

Any chance we can leave their business web page alone without the offence/judgements on keeping him in line. Aussies are famous for having a laugh at ourselves, no more so than in the trades.