Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #7

[bearbear]

could the evidence police needed for an arrest and certainty of a murder charge all be on his phone?
if he filmed the whole event or aftermath, his gf may have seen or been shown a video or photo and gone to police,
possibly with a copy of it on her phone?
also wondering if a friend was coerced to help him, using their car with a boot to hide the body while he decided where to move it, hard to drive around with a body on the back of a ute, maybe that friend is now helping police?

 

[Dr Samoht]

My gut feel is the accused GF may have played a role in his demise, after cottoning on to the accused alleged guilt over the course of the first week or two, and coming to realise he had no true alibi on the day, and perhaps finding incriminating evidence. Alternatively his parents, or even both IMO. Detailed witness statements would now be needed to unpack all of that.

I also wonder if the accused has bragged to a mate. Or filmed something very incriminating, maybe shared it, or uploaded it to the dark web. Then been dobbed in.

I think these scenarios sound quite plausible .

 

[nightpaw]

I've got to say, I've loved joining this sleuthing site.
So many great points and sleuths.

<modsnip - rude>

As only a few others have noted, that might not be the case. Too much evidence to hide in that state of mind, and too little time.

What I haven't heard much of at all, is that multiple people could have been involved. One with a directive to remove SM. Another to facilitate that process, and another or others to execute the plan. Or perhaps the middleman wasn't necessary.

A body is heavy. Even SM. If speed and efficiency is vital to avoiding detection of where the body is, then at least two people would be needed.

Let's say the accused isn't the only perpetrator. What are the other options?
Let's be true detectives.

Just recently the police officer that allegedly murdered the male couple in Sydney moved two bodies around to different locations for several days in surfboard bags. He allegedly did this alone and after stomach surgery (as all reported by several news articles) both bodies were adult male. And at one point he allegedly lifted them in and out of a boat while on a dam. So it is possible to be done alone though definitely not easy. Allegedly he had someone with him (though only for the drive) this person was allegedly not involved in any movement or handling of the bodies and apparently had no idea that that was the contents of the van. So from this we learn that hidden in plain sight is very possible and could definitely relate to the case of SM.

In PS alleged case I think for an athletic young male over 6ft tall lifting 60 to 70 kg isn’t impossible.
If the accused had accomplices no doubt their phones would be pinging too and would have also had to avoid successfully all cctv.. not easy. Plus the added stress of an entire town on edge and on the lookout for any potential evidence, not sure how long “helping out a mate would stick” in this kind of climate…. Jmo

Link for context

Jesse Baird and Luke Davies update timeline: How police allege the murders of Jesse Baird and Luke Davies unfolded

 

[southgoldengirl]

Just recently the police officer that allegedly murdered the male couple in Sydney moved two bodies around to different locations for several days in surfboard bags. He allegedly did this alone and after stomach surgery (as all reported by several news articles) both bodies were adult male. And at one point he allegedly lifted them in and out of a boat while on a dam. So it is possible to be done alone though definitely not easy. Allegedly he had someone with him though only for the drive this person was allegedly not involved in any movement or handling of the bodies and apparently had no idea that that was the contents of the van. So from this we learn that hidden in plain sight is very possible and could definitely relate to the case of SM.

In PS alleged case I think for an athletic young male over 6ft tall lifting 60 to 70 kg isn’t impossible.
If the accused had accomplices no doubt their phones would be pinging too and would have also had to avoid successfully all cctv.. not easy. Plus the added stress of an entire town on edge and on the lookout for any potential evidence, not sure how long “helping out a mate would stick” in this kind of climate…. Jmo

Link for context

Jesse Baird and Luke Davies update timeline: How police allege the murders of Jesse Baird and Luke Davies unfolded

Good post. I'm not sure why some people seem convinced that perps need help in moving a body.
We hear of cases all the time were this doesn't apply. The offender would be operating in an adrenaline fueled state, to literally save their own lives from incarceration for potentially the rest of their days.

Your example is a good one, Lamarre-Condon looks slim and not as big as Jesse and Luke but still managed to move them numerous times by himself allegedly.

Allegedly Greg Lynn moved two bodies by himself at least a couple of times. He is middle aged and overweight.

would be around 6'5 tall I'd say going by the photograph with him next to his dad who was a Ruckman at 6'7 and he's only 22 and probably fit.....JMO

 

[Poirot's niece]

Yes, I think it must be a damning piece of CCTV.

I hate to keep going back to other cases (but they are good for Vicpol comparisons) .... but the police had Greg Lynn's vehicle on CCTV, and they covertly investigated him, and it still took many months (I think 20 months) before they could get enough to arrest him.

imo

I think it took Vicpol 20 months because the location/s were rural and remote. No mobile coverage (HAM radio only). Mostly during lockdown, low person per km population, more deer than humans.
This case is a regional city, mobile towers everywhere. Rural settings adjacent to residential urban populations. Lots of people out and about, lots of traffic, lots of services, cctv common. This crime occurred less than a few kilometres from the city centre. There are schools, communities, tourists, shops, restaurants etc etc Sure there are old mine shafts and access to bushland and farming zones but the perp was well connected and everyone knows everyone or knows someone who does. I think LE have SO much info, witnesses, evidence. I wouldn't be surprised if Samantha is found within the next month, actually I'd be surprised if she's not.

 

[bearbear]

Good post. I'm not sure why some people seem convinced that perps need help in moving a body.
We hear of cases all the time were this doesn't apply. The offender would be operating in an adrenaline fueled state, to literally save their own lives from incarceration for potentially the rest of their days.

Your example is a good one, Lamarre-Condon looks slim and not as big as Jesse and Luke but still managed to move them numerous times by himself allegedly.

Allegedly Greg Lynn moved two bodies by himself at least a couple of times. He is middle aged and overweight.

would be around 6'5 tall I'd say going by the photograph with him next to his dad who was a Ruckman at 6'7 and he's only 22 and probably fit.....JMO

i was more thinking help with borrowing a car, maybe a friends old car with a boot, rather than use his ute,
but not needing help to move the body, still keeping it a one person crime?

 

[HoneyBunOne]

I wonder if the breaking news story of the mine collapse at Mount Clear has anything to do with this case? Maybe they were searching or retrieving the body?

There are reports in the news that this mine site has been using questionable techniques for a while. AFAIK, it's a working mine, closed to the public, so just coincidence that Mt Clear is in the news again so soon. I imagine security would be quite good too.

Ballarat goldmine collapse: miner killed in underground rockfall in Victoria

Two miners were pinned under a rockfall at the Mount Clear mine in Ballarat, Victoria, with one later rescued

www.theguardian.com

 

[Whatson]

I don't know why people struggle with the concept of moving a 50+ kg body alone.

Me, myself... I'm middle age, fat, a bag of injuries and ailments.

Just the other week I was stuck in a river on a motorcycle 70km from home and had to get out before nightfall. To make matters worse, my friend attempted to cross the river and got stuck also. Our bikes literally drowned and sank into soft river sand and would not start again. Not wanting to sleep in the middle of nowhere at night I had to grab the front wheel of each bike (after pushing them to shallower water) one at a time and lift them with the wheel pointing to the sky just to drain the exhausts. My friend is much older so most of this was done with him just holding the bikes balanced.

After this, the bikes had to be pushed onto the river bank where we could sort them out.

Each bike is 150kg!!!

The point is, you can move alot of weight when the pressure is on and the adrenaline is kicking in.

 

[Dr Samoht]

N

There are reports in the news that this mine site has been using questionable techniques for a while. AFAIK, it's a working mine, closed to the public, so just coincidence that Mt Clear is in the news again so soon. I imagine security would be quite good too.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-rockfall-at-ballarat-goldmine-union-says[/UR

http://

There are reports in the news that this mine site has been using questionable techniques for a while. AFAIK, it's a working mine, closed to the public, so just coincidence that Mt Clear is in the news again so soon. I imagine security would be quite good too.

Ballarat goldmine collapse: miner killed in underground rockfall in Victoria

Two miners were pinned under a rockfall at the Mount Clear mine in Ballarat, Victoria, with one later rescued

www.theguardian.com

just coincidence , the mine entrance at the north end of Mt Clear , three kilometres in the direction of Llanberris / Eureka st ,500 metres down in a highly secure and regulated environment .

 

[bearbear]

N

http://

just coincidence , the mine entrance at the north end of Mt Clear , three kilometres in the direction of Llanberris / Eureka st ,500 metres down in a highly secure and regulated environment .

i wonder if they have cctv cameras everywhere?

 

[Whatson]

Here are some photos of what a typical electricans utility setup might look like. Slide back draws are very common. So there is the possibility the accused may have been able to hide a body in one, if their vehicle was used for such. A canopy on the vehicle of course, means it didn't really matter too much regardless. Perhaps just some extra confidence during the act.

 

[Dr Samoht]

W

i wonder if they have cctv cameras everywhere?

ould imagine so

 

[Deleted member 340727]

If they haven't found the body by looking at his movements and tracking him on the day of, then I believe he may have stored the body in the boot and gone out in the following days to dispose - OR he put it somewhere day of, then went back and moved it somewhere else later on. Both of these scenarios mean they would have to spend a lot of time tracing his movements within the following 2 weeks, which may explain why she hasn't yet been found.

Otherwise I believe they would have been able to narrow in on the location of the body by now. These two potential scenarios make the most sense

It appears the technology exists to replace cadaver dogs, atleast in certain applications, [down mine shafts] ??

Electronic-nose applications in forensic science and for analysis of volatile biomarkers in the human breath | US Forest Service Research and Development

www.fs.usda.gov

The use of novel electronic nose technology to locate missing persons for criminal investigations

The search for missing persons is a major challenge for investigations involving presumed deceased individuals. Currently, the most effective tool is the use of cadaver-detection dogs; however, they are limited by their cost, limited operation ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is an important excerpt that we should note:
'The most efficient tool for victim discovery is the use of cadaver-detection dogs. These dogs are specifically trained to detect the volatile organic compounds (VOCs) that are released from deceased and decomposing individuals. As a deceased individual undergoes decomposition, VOCs are created through the catabolism of the major biological macromolecules (proteins, carbohydrates, and lipids).21,22,23,24,25These VOCs are constantly produced throughout all stages of decomposition22 and diffuse into the surrounding environment. The dispersal of VOCs from decomposing human remains allows for their detection by these specialized detection dogs.'
Refer the document for the cited references as they are lengthy.
 Cadaver-detection dogs should be housed in every state in Australia with immediate access to get these dogs onto the ground to do their work.

 

[Slamalam]

Each orange and yellow dot represents known mining activity in the Ballarat area.

Experts say it is entirely feasible illegal mining activity once took place in Ballarat, given its prominent role in the gold rush, making it impossible to now know the location of every shaft.

Mr Shaw said he had located at least 100 mineshafts during his searches in Ballarat bushland during the past five weeks and he had been down about 60
View attachment 490131

There are countless mineshafts in the area searched for signs of Samantha Murphy. This is what it's like inside them

Raymond Shaw says he has spent the past five-and-a-half weeks uncovering and exploring disused mine shafts in a determined effort to find anything that helps locate the Ballarat mum.

www.abc.net.au

Wow. I can’t imagine living somewhere with those everywhere! Are there constantly reports of kids falling in or anything? That seems so dangerous!

 

[HoneyBunOne]

i feel someone else IS involved. PS is so determined in his silence. I keep wondering, and have stated earlier, that that someone else just may be the weak link in time.

Given that this is what I currently believe... I truly *do* hope the someone is not family.

moo.moo.
there is just so much -too much that we don't know.

I tend to disagree. His determination to stay silent may be because he feels smarter than the police, and feels they don't have the evidence to nail it on him. Perhaps he thinks if the body is never found, they won't have enough to call it murder. Perhaps finding her body will mean further charges, based on what is found. IMHO

 

[acutename]

I don't know why people struggle with the concept of moving a 50+ kg body alone.

Me, myself... I'm middle age, fat, a bag of injuries and ailments.

Just the other week I was stuck in a river on a motorcycle 70km from home and had to get out before nightfall. To make matters worse, my friend attempted to cross the river and got stuck also. Our bikes literally drowned and sank into soft river sand and would not start again. Not wanting to sleep in the middle of nowhere at night I had to grab the front wheel of each bike (after pushing them to shallower water) one at a time and lift them with the wheel pointing to the sky just to drain the exhausts. My friend is much older so most of this was done with him just holding the bikes balanced.

After this, the bikes had to be pushed onto the river bank where we could sort them out.

Each bike is 150kg!!!

The point is, you can move alot of weight when the pressure is on and the adrenaline is kicking in.

go to any gym and see what some people lift. most women do not have extreme upper body strength but many men have weight lifting shoulder and arm power- old men, skinny men, boys. IMO see it myself. Plus this is not olympic dead lifting; there could be dragging, shoving, pushing. SM was not a huge person.

 

[Whatson]

Good grief. I wonder if the accused was familiar with this recent article... also in Ballarat?!?!

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/courts-law/shannon-jeffrey-killer-dumped-kobie-parfitt-down-disused-mine-shaft-near-ballarat/news-story/69e68168f8e81f9c3d974a436f3e2822

Jeffrey, the court was told, had pleaded guilty to manslaughter soon after the prosecution dropped a murder charge earlier this year.

Another four months later, police found her remains almost 5m deep in an abandoned mine shaft 30km away from Ms Parfitt’s home in December the same year.

Due to the state of decomposition, forensic pathologists were unable to identify how she died.

To locate the mine shaft, police used phone records from Jeffrey’s accomplice, Brendan James Prestage, to find the Snake Valley location.

 

[nightpaw]

Any more thoughts on the premeditation theory? Some great posts previously on this.

Does seem most likely with the info at hand.
Why conceal the body ??
Whether accidental or deliberate. Allegedly happened in a remote location with no one around.
This takes great effort and risk.
Why risk it when you could just drive off??
Seems to point to desire and planning.
Whether or not it is general violent feelings towards women and the opportunity presented or as some have mentioned stalked an unfortunate person who routinely made themselves vulnerable in an isolated setting.
Does the accused want the person to himself? Or does SM body further reveal things about him that he does not want known???

And 5 weeks roaming around free, surely if it had of been an accident then concealment, that would play heavily on the conscience and would not be easily dodged in a tight knit community??
People would be highly suspicious of shifty change in character??

JMO

Any ideas ??

 

[acutename]

This is an important excerpt that we should note:
'The most efficient tool for victim discovery is the use of cadaver-detection dogs. These dogs are specifically trained to detect the volatile organic compounds (VOCs) that are released from deceased and decomposing individuals. As a deceased individual undergoes decomposition, VOCs are created through the catabolism of the major biological macromolecules (proteins, carbohydrates, and lipids).21,22,23,24,25These VOCs are constantly produced throughout all stages of decomposition22 and diffuse into the surrounding environment. The dispersal of VOCs from decomposing human remains allows for their detection by these specialized detection dogs.'
Refer the document for the cited references as they are lengthy.
 Cadaver-detection dogs should be housed in every state in Australia with immediate access to get these dogs onto the ground to do their work.

some one upthread said that she takes her non-trained but nosy dog on some of these trails daily.
I think if there were a body in close proximity to people, some ordinary dog could have discovered it by now- makes me think if there is a location, it is remote or, there was something more disintegrative done.

 

[bearbear]

View attachment 490344View attachment 490345View attachment 490346

Here are some photos of what a typical electricans utility setup might look like. Slide back draws are very common. So there is the possibility the accused may have been able to hide a body in one, if their vehicle was used for such. A canopy on the vehicle of course, means it didn't really matter too much regardless. Perhaps just some extra confidence during the act.

but you would have to remove a lot of the tools and trays so as not to contaminate and to fit a body,
i can imagine any one with this set up to be very precious of their tools and vehicle, looks expensive