Australia Samantha Murphy, 51, last seen leaving her property to go for a run in the Canadian State Forest, Ballarat 100km NW of Melbourne, 4 Feb 2024 #8

[SouthAussie]

If the accused's family really did flee, you have to wonder what they already knew or what words were spoken/evidence presented to them by police...

Parents don't just pack up and leave. They would have had to have been so certain in their minds and hearts that the accused was guilty.

All JMO!!

I don't think we know that the accused's family fled anywhere. All that I have read is that the accused was unsupported by family or friends in his first court hearing.

The Ballarat mayor has been very vocal about how both families need community support. There are many links, here is one:

Mr Hudson urged locals to let the investigation take its course, reminding the crowd that the accused and his family were also members of the Ballarat community.
“We need to be mindful that there are two families that are involved,” Mr Hudson said.

Heartache as search for Ballarat mum’s body continues

Mourners gathered in Ballarat to pay tribute to local mum Samantha Murphy after a man was charged with murder earlier this week. Her body is yet to be found.

www.aap.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

You ask and here you are:

"Known violent criminals in the area are also being spoken to, including a male sex offender.

That man was reportedly interviewed by detectives for several hours and provided an alibi for the day of Ms Murphy's disappearance.

Extra detectives

including personnel from the sex crimes,

counter-terror, fraud and armed robbery divisions in Melbourne, have been brought in to help with the case.

There is no suggestion the sex offender is involved in Ms Murphy's disappearance in any way and he is understood to have provided an alibi, which is being corroborated."

Samantha Murphy: Cops investigate 'movements to and from' home

Police have said there was a 'number of movements' to and from the Murphy house on February 4, the day the mother-of-three disappeared.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

"A convicted sex offender has been interviewed by detectives investigating the disappearance of Samantha Murphy, according to a new report."

Sex offender interviewed in search for missing mum

A convicted sex offender who has spent time in jail has been interviewed by detectives investigating the disappearance of Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy, a new report has suggested.

www-news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

Just to point out (UBM) ..... "A convicted sex offender who has spent time in jail has been interviewed by detectives" Link

This Age article states that PS has never previously been in custody.


Link

 

[Dotta]

Just to point out (UBM) ..... "A convicted sex offender who has spent time in jail has been interviewed by detectives" Link

This Age article states that PS has never previously been in custody.

View attachment 492617
Link

I did NOT suggest that it was the accused.
But that those who were locally under Police radar were checked.

After all, we know nothing about the alleged perp's history, don't we?

JMO

 

[Trooper]

So true. But I'm starting to think police don't have enough yet for a watertight conviction.

JMO

Not to argue this point, it's a valid one, but in the matter of the warrant for his arrest.,. the evidence for that warrant has been thrashed out in the VICPOL detectives cubby , then up thru the Commander, then the Commisioner, ( it being murder ) then over to the Office of Public Prosecutions, thru to the Dept. of Public Prosecutions,, who's job is the understand and codify the legal requirements , not just for a case, but for a conviction. A lot of people conversant with crime and the law have scrutinised all the stuff, pertaining to VICPOL's theory of murder.

Then, I would think they would have taken it before a judge, VICPOL doesn't have to get a judge to sign off on a warrant ,but in this case, I am presuming they would do that, not a magistrate but a judge, perhaps even a spare Supreme Court judge, caught hanging around William St. He/ she would examine carefully all the evidence in written form that VICPOL currently held. ( they had not interviewed him, or searched his belongings yet) and then it's signed off on. Judges do not rubber stamp warrants, their signature on one brings them right into the zone of accountability.

For the seizure of his property, his Ute, his work clobber, his work boots, his work tools, his ordinary gear, his underwear, his household linen, ( bedding, towels,etc ) his phone, his bank card, his medicare card , credit cards, his car tools, his garden tools, his hobby gear, etc, etc, etc, his tooth brush, his comb, all this has to be justified for a warrant to be issued..

A lot of this stuff he will never get back. Maybe , one day, when it's all over, the Ute, ( Pickup for those in less fortunate countries ) although that is hard evidence, apparently.

It's a bit iffy, he may not get it back, but all the other stuff goes into storage, to wait for science to catch up, perhaps for a cold case investigation later on.

 

[Trooper]

Police Commissioner Shane Patton has stated to the effect that dogs are able to sniff out technology such as mobile phones and also sim cards but stated: 'We don’t have the capacity' and 'we’re trying to get that capability'

What does he mean by: 'we’re trying to get that capability'? Is there an indication here that he is awaiting assistance from another party?

Do we have the full transcript of this statement by Police Commissioner Shane Patton?

You know in times of catastrophe, eg. like a city riven by an earthquake, countries fly in their trained sniffer dogs to assist, ( I recall Turkish Airlines issued first class seats to the Mexican sniffer dogs returning home to Puerto Vallarta,, who were flown in to assist in their disastrous earthquake, a pic of the dogs tired and lolling about in first class, grinning away, was fabulous ) . . this may be what Mr Patton has in mind. NZ has quite a crew of trained canines, they not being called the Shaky Isles for nothing... Since Christchurch that number has increased a lot.

(edit ) forgot to put website in ...

These Heroic Dogs Were Treated to First-class Seats on Turkish Airlines for Helping With Turkey's Earthquake Recovery Efforts — See the Photos

Rescue dogs who have contributed to the recovery efforts of the tragic earthquakes in Turkey were recently treated to first- and business- class seats on their journey.

www.travelandleisure.com

 

[SouthAussie]

I did NOT suggest that it was the accused.
But that those who were locally under Police radar were checked.

After all, we know nothing about the alleged perp's history, don't we?

JMO

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that. But I saw rumblings about that on the thread, and jumped off your post.

No, we don't know the accused's history. But we do know that he has never spent time in custody before. Which suggests, to me, that he is not a convicted sex offender. As, in Victoria, there is a mandatory custodial order for those who commit rape or sexual offences against children.

Mandatory Sentencing | Dribbin & Brown

Mandatory Sentencing in Victoria The mandatory sentencing scheme, introduced by parliament in 2017, is based on the principle of retributivism, the notion that offenders deserve to be punished in proportion to the gravity of offending and the harm resulting from offending conduct. The principles...

www.criminalsolicitorsmelbourne.com.au

 

[Dotta]

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that you were suggesting that. But I saw rumblings about that on the thread, and jumped off your post.

No, we don't know the accused's history. But we do know that he has never spent time in custody before. Which suggests, to me, that he is not a convicted sex offender. As, in Victoria, there is a mandatory custodial order for those who commit rape or sexual offences against children.

Mandatory Sentencing | Dribbin & Brown

Mandatory Sentencing in Victoria The mandatory sentencing scheme, introduced by parliament in 2017, is based on the principle of retributivism, the notion that offenders deserve to be punished in proportion to the gravity of offending and the harm resulting from offending conduct. The principles...

www.criminalsolicitorsmelbourne.com.au

I think we all might be VERY surprised by this alleged perp when the trial comes

JMO

 

[Trooper]

I think we all might be VERY surprised by this alleged perp when the trial comes

JMO

It is difficult to credit that he has skated thru life without any ruffling of anyone's feathers for 22 years, then suddenly kills a 51 yr old woman, whom he does not know and has no discernible angst about, and she does not know him, minding her own business, jogging on a bush path, in broad daylight, on a sunny Sunday morning.

The jarring contrast there is remarkable.

I do expect some kind of background, but these things are mainly presented in childhood, like animal cruelty, bedwetting, fire setting, etc.. that would indicate his propensities, perhaps, some school days incident, as one grows older one learns to hide all this .

So . yes., Surprises, of the negative sort, most probably.

 

[Dezzie]

I don't think we know that the accused's family fled anywhere. All that I have read is that the accused was unsupported by family or friends in his first court hearing.

The only reference Im able to find now is a few DM articles stating:

"It is understood the family has now left the area after a media horde descended upon their home on Thursday afternoon."

I cant help but think of the reaction to Brian Laundrie's parents, whilst Gabby Petito was still missing, protestors and harrassment etc.
Im certainly not surprised anyone would want to avoid the media, though I must add, I would be more inclined to stick around especially for court appearances, if I believed my child was innocent...
IMO

 

[Dotta]

It is difficult to credit that he has skated thru life without any ruffling of anyone's feathers for 22 years, then suddenly kills a 51 yr old woman, whom he does not know and has no discernible angst about, minding her own business, jogging on a bush path, in broad daylight, on a sunny Sunday morning.

The jarring contrast there is remarkable.

I do expect some kind of background, but these things are mainly presented in childhood, like animal cruelty, bedwetting, fire setting, etc.. that would indicate his propensities, perhaps, some school days incident, as one grows older one learns to hide all this .

So . yes., Surprises, of the negative sort, most probably.

Of course.
Such disgusting crimes don't happen in the vacuum.

JMO

 

[Kemug]

This Age article states that PS has never previously been in custody.

View attachment 492617
Link

It might have been so much better, especially for Samantha, if he had.

 

[BreakingNews]

Police Commissioner Shane Patton has stated to the effect that dogs are able to sniff out technology such as mobile phones and also sim cards but stated: 'We don’t have the capacity' and 'we’re trying to get that capability'

What does he mean by: 'we’re trying to get that capability'? Is there an indication here that he is awaiting assistance from another party?

Do we have the full transcript of this statement by Police Commissioner Shane Patton?

The next sentence was about using the Federal police and their dogs. Guess it is getting the time with the Feds and dogs. The Dog Union will not allow them to do overtime.

 

[BreakingNews]

Not to argue this point, it's a valid one, but in the matter of the warrant for his arrest.,. the evidence for that warrant has been thrashed out in the VICPOL detectives cubby , then up thru the Commander, then the Commisioner, ( it being murder ) then over to the Office of Public Prosecutions, thru to the Dept. of Public Prosecutions,, who's job is the understand and codify the legal requirements , not just for a case, but for a conviction. A lot of people conversant with crime and the law have scrutinised all the stuff, pertaining to VICPOL's theory of murder.

Then, I would think they would have taken it before a judge, VICPOL doesn't have to get a judge to sign off on a warrant ,but in this case, I am presuming they would do that, not a magistrate but a judge, perhaps even a spare Supreme Court judge, caught hanging around William St. He/ she would examine carefully all the evidence in written form that VICPOL currently held. ( they had not interviewed him, or searched his belongings yet) and then it's signed off on. Judges do not rubber stamp warrants, their signature on one brings them right into the zone of accountability.

For the seizure of his property, his Ute, his work clobber, his work boots, his work tools, his ordinary gear, his underwear, his household linen, ( bedding, towels,etc ) his phone, his bank card, his medicare card , credit cards, his car tools, his garden tools, his hobby gear, etc, etc, etc, his tooth brush, his comb, all this has to be justified for a warrant to be issued..

A lot of this stuff he will never get back. Maybe , one day, when it's all over, the Ute, ( Pickup for those in less fortunate countries ) although that is hard evidence, apparently.

It's a bit iffy, he may not get it back, but all the other stuff goes into storage, to wait for science to catch up, perhaps for a cold case investigation later on.

You are right. Passed by many for the arrest and murder charge with the evidence they have got. Still, they do not have major evidence of body, phone, Sim card or watch. My thinking is that those things are all with Sam in a mine shaft or dam, or creek

 

[ProfCluezo]

POST 1: I take your point, there, Prof.. however, it won't matter in the crucial area of his future abode. He has not to anyone's knowledge, demonstrated any propensities for a highly personality disordered person. He is fully employed. He finished school. He plays in a team sport, something a lot of people just cannot tolerate, much less those with a personality disorder. He has managed to live in a small , tight, community, for a long time. ( which is not to say he has not come to some people's negative attention ) .. he has not displayed his disorder to any one else, as yet known. It is not a disorder than can be kept secret for years, particularly from puberty onwards, and he is 22..
I am reluctant to find a mitigating factor of personality disorder, not even high. Murder is, by it's very nature, a sign of tremendous disorder in the perpetrator, but that does not signify a life long handicap.. Some people are just bad to the bone, and there it is. Here they come. Out of the blue.

Vs.

POST 2: It is difficult to credit that he has skated thru life without any ruffling of anyone's feathers for 22 years, then suddenly kills a 51 yr old woman, whom he does not know and has no discernible angst about, and she does not know him, minding her own business, jogging on a bush path, in broad daylight, on a sunny Sunday morning.

The jarring contrast there is remarkable.

I do expect some kind of background, but these things are mainly presented in childhood, like animal cruelty, bedwetting, fire setting, etc.. that would indicate his propensities, perhaps, some school days incident, as one grows older one learns to hide all this .

So . yes., Surprises, of the negative sort, most probably.

What an extraordinary turnaround in sentiment Troops!! If I may say so….

I admire your willingness to look again, with “new eyes…”.

JMO…

 

[HoneyBunOne]

But Dotta so much information is plugged through the press one has to be careful about believing if it is the truth and discounting it as heresay. But in this case we have the Police Commissioner Shane Patton making a statement we can quote verbatim. The Police Commissioner Shane Patton does not state anything about the headphones nor anything about clothing of SM. Were the headphones found? Did they dislodge during the struggle? MOO
Thank you Dotta.

Do we know for a fact that she had headphones/earbuds in? The grainy CCTV image of Samantha in her workout gear does not show any visible headphones/earbuds. We know she had a phone and an Apple watch. Perhaps the phone was also Apple? I don't believe I've seen any mention of headphones/earbuds in any news or police statements. I'm not tech savvy, but I would assume the watch is for tracking her exercise and the phone for making calls if needed? Maybe she preferred the sound of the bush to music while running?

It is difficult to credit that he has skated thru life without any ruffling of anyone's feathers for 22 years, then suddenly kills a 51 yr old woman, whom he does not know and has no discernible angst about, and she does not know him, minding her own business, jogging on a bush path, in broad daylight, on a sunny Sunday morning.

The jarring contrast there is remarkable.

I do expect some kind of background, but these things are mainly presented in childhood, like animal cruelty, bedwetting, fire setting, etc.. that would indicate his propensities, perhaps, some school days incident, as one grows older one learns to hide all this .

So . yes., Surprises, of the negative sort, most probably.

In MOO, I feel that there may be some red flags that appear in hindsight.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/v...d/news-story/2c0249893e71c92dbf911363ef67d668

The article above alleges:
"Some of those closest to Mr Stephenson, including his former St Patrick’s College classmates, told the Herald Sun he was often on the outer and that he struggled with his mental health. They said welfare staff at St Patrick’s College dealt with frequent “outbursts”. He was described as showing some eccentric behaviour and was sometimes bullied at school. Those former classmates said his mental health concerns were well known."

Signs of potential impending trouble IMHO. Potential mental health issues, struggles with self control, being bullied, and maybe bullying in return. Maybe turning to drugs and alcohol, and alleged wild partying can be signs of fighting internal feelings. Perhaps an undiagnosed personality disorder of sorts?

The same article states:
"Orren at the time said his son, then aged 12, rarely missed a game. “Patrick last year was rolling around the rooms with the Geelong Cats and this year he’s rolling around with the Richmond Tiger boys,” he said."

I feel this could make him appear as a bit of a rock star to the kids at school and perhaps inflate his ego and feeling of self importance. Going on to be a good football player in his own right may have inflated that ego more, to the point he felt somewhat protected. Being good at the nation's sport of choice may have allowed him to get away with things he may not have if he was Mr Average. It may have brought the attention of the girls, further increasing the thought that he could get who he wanted and do what he wanted. Add in a bit of old school masculinity that can be rife in football clubs around the country and here we are.

It's a huge stretch, but the whispers that keep appearing about him may turn out to not be rumours at all. I can't really comment further as these things are not documented and only alleged, but piece by piece I feel things will come out that will show the timeline that led to this.

MOO

 

[Trooper]

Do we know for a fact that she had headphones/earbuds in? The grainy CCTV image of Samantha in her workout gear does not show any visible headphones/earbuds. We know she had a phone and an Apple watch. Perhaps the phone was also Apple? I don't believe I've seen any mention of headphones/earbuds in any news or police statements. I'm not tech savvy, but I would assume the watch is for tracking her exercise and the phone for making calls if needed? Maybe she preferred the sound of the bush to music while running?


In MOO, I feel that there may be some red flags that appear in hindsight.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/v...d/news-story/2c0249893e71c92dbf911363ef67d668

The article above alleges:
"Some of those closest to Mr Stephenson, including his former St Patrick’s College classmates, told the Herald Sun he was often on the outer and that he struggled with his mental health. They said welfare staff at St Patrick’s College dealt with frequent “outbursts”. He was described as showing some eccentric behaviour and was sometimes bullied at school. Those former classmates said his mental health concerns were well known."

Signs of potential impending trouble IMHO. Potential mental health issues, struggles with self control, being bullied, and maybe bullying in return. Maybe turning to drugs and alcohol, and alleged wild partying can be signs of fighting internal feelings.

The same article states:
"Orren at the time said his son, then aged 12, rarely missed a game. “Patrick last year was rolling around the rooms with the Geelong Cats and this year he’s rolling around with the Richmond Tiger boys,” he said."

I feel this could make him appear as a bit of a rock star to the kids at school and perhaps inflate his ego and feeling of self importance. Going on to be a good football player in his own right may have inflated that ego more, to the point he felt somewhat protected. Being good at the nation's sport of choice may have allowed him to get away with things he may not have if he was Mr Average. It may have brought the attention of the girls, further increasing the thought that he could get who he wanted and do what he wanted. Add in a bit of old school masculinity that can be rife in football clubs around the country and here we are.

It's a huge stretch, but the whispers that keep appearing about him may turn out to not be rumours at all. I can't really comment further as these things are not documented and only alleged, but piece by piece I feel things will come out that will show the timeline that led to this.

MOO

Possibly, not mad, just bad. Just a cranky, spoiled, inflated self important kid, with no boundaries... those whispers are awfully consistent, HB. Be rare if they are all wrong. There was a sense of great things were expected of this young man , sport, science, whatever.. .. ( I noticed he was not into art, or literature, ) which, like a lot of us, it happens all the time, did not eventuate, except, he, perhaps thought they should, and it must be someone's fault.

 

[Deleted member 340727]

You ask and here you are:

"Known violent criminals in the area are also being spoken to, including a male sex offender.

That man was reportedly interviewed by detectives for several hours and provided an alibi for the day of Ms Murphy's disappearance.

Extra detectives

including personnel from the sex crimes,

counter-terror, fraud and armed robbery divisions in Melbourne, have been brought in to help with the case.

There is no suggestion the sex offender is involved in Ms Murphy's disappearance in any way and he is understood to have provided an alibi, which is being corroborated."

Samantha Murphy: Cops investigate 'movements to and from' home

Police have said there was a 'number of movements' to and from the Murphy house on February 4, the day the mother-of-three disappeared.

www-dailymail-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org

"A convicted sex offender has been interviewed by detectives investigating the disappearance of Samantha Murphy, according to a new report."

Sex offender interviewed in search for missing mum

A convicted sex offender who has spent time in jail has been interviewed by detectives investigating the disappearance of Ballarat woman Samantha Murphy, a new report has suggested.

www-news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org

Thank you Dotta for your information.

 

[Lemony]

Police Life podcast | The Experts

The official podcast of Victoria Police. Detectives and specialist unit members share true crime stories and past big cases in Police Life: The Experts.

www.police.vic.gov.au

This podcast might be of interest to anyone who still considers a collision/using vehicle to deliberately cause death a possibility.

It is a 2024 podcast by Vicpol, “Police Life: The Experts”.

Episode 2 is about the work of the Major Collison Investigation Unit. It was reported that the MCIU participated in one of the searches for Samantha.

The podcast episode centres around a 2019 pedestrian fatality. While this was a very, very sad and tragic case it highlighted the amazing skills and determination of the MCIU to investigate thoroughly, determine what happened to the victim and get answers for his family.

I’m not suggesting that what happened to Samantha was an accident (as the case discussed in the podcast appears to be), I believe what ever happened to cause her death was a deliberate act, as the commissioner adamantly stated.

There were some aspects of the podcast that I found interesting, firstly the criteria that needs to be met for the MCIU to become involved in an investigation. Secondly, the offender in the podcast case had dash cam and during the course of the investigation detectives uncovered that he had destroyed evidence - the SD card.

I’ve often wondered if Patrick Stephenson had dash cam.

 

[marv hucker]

I have a question for the folk who know the process of arrests, police work, etc

IF there was another person involved in this (perhaps after the fact), is it possible that they could have ‘handed themselves in’ / presented to LE prior to the accused arrest, and provided a lot of incriminating evidence, in exchange for not being charged as an accomplice / accessory?

I don’t believe not being charged at all is within police’s power.

Offers of lesser sentencing (even non custodial sentencing) yes.

 

[marv hucker]

Hypothetical question to better understand the word alleged.

Can WS with more knowledge than I, please confirm the following:

Let's say a crime is committed in front of 5 police officers. The crime is clearly recorded on x5 body cams from x5 different angles, capturing the perp committing the crime on video. The perpetrator is immediately apprehended.

The evidence is irrefutable, cannot be legally challenged wrt who committed the crime and what crime was committed. But it's not yet deemed proof right? That's up to the jury/judge to decide.

The media often use the word allegedly wrt the crimes committed by the apprehended perps, to avoid libel and contempt of court.

Is Police bound by the same principles?

If so, then until the courts have found the defendant guilty of the crime, the charges against them remain allegations only, no matter how watertight the evidence appears to be.

Often I read police media statements don't use the word allegedly/alleged when declaring a perp has been charged with a crime.

It is factual that person X has been charged with a crime.

The details of what person X has done is alleged. (Until proven beyond reasonable doubt).