OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[Parsnip]

Hi all, I’ve been following along and appreciate all the posts on this one. Hey now, @AugustWest !

I wonder whether there is info in the docket (such as addresses) that might put the children and/or carers at risk, so it was temporarily closed until redacted. I’ve spent a lot of time in courtrooms, and Judges are very protective of children, imo.

I agree with others that the primary crime scene is the location of the car. Also that the perp is likely a usual suspect.

If I’ve read correctly that bio dad is in rehab, likely he is making himself unavailable for interview. Just imo. Children likely removed from current placement due to emergency sealed court order. Also imo.

Until more evidence is gathered and processed or someone dimes someone else out, it’s unlikely we’ll hear more publicly.

Wishing the best to LE that they break this one open soon. And sending lots of mama love to the kids.

 

[Betty P]

Hi all, I’ve been following along and appreciate all the posts on this one. Hey now, @AugustWest !

I wonder whether there is info in the docket (such as addresses) that might put the children and/or carers at risk, so it was temporarily closed until redacted. I’ve spent a lot of time in courtrooms, and Judges are very protective of children, imo.

I agree with others that the primary crime scene is the location of the car. Also that the perp is likely a usual suspect.

If I’ve read correctly that bio dad is in rehab, likely he is making himself unavailable for interview. Just imo. Children likely removed from current placement due to emergency sealed court order. Also imo.

Until more evidence is gathered and processed or someone dimes someone else out, it’s unlikely we’ll hear more publicly.

Wishing the best to LE that they break this one open soon. And sending lots of mama love to the kids.

Thanks for that helpful input, especially that courts and LE are probably acting very carefully to protect the location of the children, as well as other information that might lead to them. Let's hope that's where the kids are.

I recall this now with the surviving children in the Rhoden murders/Pike County Massacre. They were quickly put into emergency care. No one knew where they were for a while, not even the victims families, grandparents, etc. It's difficult for surviving family members who are traumatized and extremely worried, but necessary.

 

[Deepinthought52]

Just started following this forgive question please, <modsnip: encourages the sleuthing of non POI> And is there any word on why the second woman did not move to Nebraska with job transfer -maybe kids still in school?

Perhaps she did move, but still had church connections/ business in old town already planned? Moo

 

[Deepinthought52]

So everyone thinking this is tied to VB and her custody situation but what if it's tied to JK somehow?

Possible, but given hx of vb and criminal activity from that situation, I’m more likely to believe it’s related to the messy custody/ famil situation of vb. Jmo

 

[Deepinthought52]

It feels premeditated but the only thing pulling me away from that is the fact the suspect/s left an evidence trail in the vehicle. Since the type of evidence found has not been listed in the media, we can't really speculate here on what type of evidence it is. But I would think premeditation would involve planning for the removal of all evidence, including a complete wipe down of the vehicle. Since there was evidence of foul play present, we can only hope the perpetrator/s mistakenly left his/her own traceable prints or DNA material.

Thanks for that helpful input, especially that courts and LE are probably acting very carefully to protect the location of the children, as well as other information that might lead to them. Let's hope that's where the kids are.

I recall this now with the surviving children in the Rhoden murders/Pike County Massacre. They were quickly put into emergency care. No one knew where they were for a while, not even the victims families, grandparents, etc. It's difficult for surviving family members who are traumatized and extremely worried, but necessary.

Those kids are at such impressionable and vulnerable ages. I hope that they are placed in loving hands of folks who will help them navigate through this psychological trauma.

 

[CamilleBSP]

My post some pages back was immediately dismissed but since you seem open to other ideas, I’m providing it below. These two women driving alone on this desolate road would seem to me vulnerable to any number of bad situations.

“I heard Dr. Makayla Keefe-Saramosing the owner of Keefe Private Investigations (the largest Oklahoma-owned private investigation and process serving company) being interviewed and she said that hum@n tr@ff1cking is a huge problem in Oklahoma and something to consider with abductions of young women.

“This was a general comment and *not* her opinion on this case. Just passing it on in the “third party” category, for what it’s worth. IDK. MOO”

OK - OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

Well, they've been missing for 4 days. Jilian has 4 kids at home :confused:, if she were able she'd certainly call her husband and kids. "Can't confirm foul play".....highly doubtful they walked away in the middle of nowhere. Oh, I'm pretty certain there is evidence of foul play somewhere. But...

www.websleuths.com

The likelihood of it being what you are saying it could be are very, very slim to absolutely none. That's why it was dismissed.

 

[lonetraveler]

This brings up a really good point. People in these types of situations should meet for child swaps in very public places, such as courthouses or in front of police stations IMO.

Or in the police station.

 

[Bgrill]

Missing Mom and Preacher's Wife Vanish, Picking up Kids: Car Just Found - Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

6:15 PM Saturday: Oklahoma Highway Patrol issues a ‘Missing Endangered’ Alert for Veronica Butler and Jillian Kelley on behalf of the Texas County Sheriffs. By Sunday evening, the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation announces they are joining the investigation into the women's “suspicious...

omny.fm

 

[CuriousCricket]

If premeditation was involved, I'd think they would have gone to the meeting place for "appearances sake", knowing full well there would be questions afterwards.

Yes, I think that's what I would do.

A quick chat with the children could tell LE only if they did not go, LE would have their answer. If they did go, LE would have to explore further.

If I knew the meet-up would never happen but took the children and went to the location just to bamboozle LE, I would try to remember my actions in previous exchanges -- do you call the mother running a bit late or are you spiteful and one second past the set time do you head back to the house without making contact. Or even call and say, "you're late, we're gone".

Are you matter of fact? angry and yelling? maybe giving them just 5 more minutes?

Instead do you call your lawyer with they never showed, how should this be handled? Do you report it to the court?

How have you behaved in the past? shouldn't you be doing the same thing?

I am thinking if the grandmother really loved the children and knew something would happen, she would never expose the children to seeing those actions. Therefore, the children would be left at home.

Or the mothers would be waylaid before the meet-up and whatever is planned is carried out. How many people would that require?

It would require the Kia being stopped before the meet-up in a different location. Whatever happened happened, and the Kia was taken to a desolate location and abandoned.

Meanwhile, grandmother and children and perhaps others are being stood up at meeting place.

Already, I can not imagine the pain all this is inflicting on these children whether they knew nothing about the planned visit or were taken to the meet-up.

I so hope nothing occurred in the presence of the children.-

 

[CamilleBSP]

OSBI,
foul play determined
asking for tips
cannot release what was found in or outside the car
hopeful they're still alive. (!)
we do not believe the public is in danger
no suspects yet
we will let public know if suspect is identified
agents still determining where exactly they were going
agents have been in contact with a lot of people, but won't say who
will continue to do updates but at this time there's nothing more
stresses we need people who know anything to reach out

BBM
How can people give tips if they don't even know the make/year of the car or the last time the women were seen?

 

[branmuffin]

McKee said investigators were able to determine the two women were in the vehicle together before they went missing.

Both women are involved in church communities in Hugoton, Kansas, according to Butler’s pastor, Tim Singer, with the Hugoton Assembly of God.

Singer described the two mothers as “acquaintances” and said that they were picking up Butler’s children to attend a birthday party when they went missing.

There’s a lot of “shock” and “confusion” in the community amid their mysterious disappearance, he told ABC News

“We’re expecting their return to Hugoton and to see their faces again,” he said.

‘Suspicious disappearance’: Law enforcement searches for 2 women in Oklahoma

(OKLAHOMA CITY, Okla.) — The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation said it is looking into the “suspicious disappearance” of two women after their vehicle was found abandoned over the weekend in a…

ruralradio.com

Can someone refresh my memory as to where the birthday party was? Initially I thought the party was where they were driving to but then I heard they were taking the kids back to where VB lived for the party. Thanks.

 

[lonetraveler]

It's baffling to me, considering there are small towns a few miles down the road, that they would have chosen some completely vacant intersection to exchange children in a very contested custody case. But even so, how about a time when the exchange was to take place, and a description of BOTH cars involved? So there's some hope someone else might have witnessed what happened?

edited to add: apparently they were going to a home, not just to the side of the highway, per this recent article:

Kansas community speaks on missing women

Veronica Butler, 27, and Jilian Kelley, 39, of Hugoton, Kansas, remain missing.

www.ksn.com

Can't help but wonder if the grandmother made a call to see why they were late showing up.

 

[translator]

It feels premeditated but the only thing pulling me away from that is the fact the suspect/s left an evidence trail in the vehicle. Since the type of evidence found has not been listed in the media, we can't really speculate here on what type of evidence it is. But I would think premeditation would involve planning for the removal of all evidence, including a complete wipe down of the vehicle. Since there was evidence of foul play present, we can only hope the perpetrator/s mistakenly left his/her own traceable prints or DNA material.

On the other hand, it could be that it was premeditated but something didn’t go as planned, the perpetrator simply isn’t very smart or, worryingly, they didn’t intend to get away with the crime. I also hope they have left evidence that can be traced back to them.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If premeditation was involved, I'd think they would have gone to the meeting place for "appearances sake", knowing full well there would be questions afterwards.

If premeditated, why both women? Someone could have ambushed whichever woman was the target when they were alone. And not on the way to picking up kids. Perhaps whoever did this thought it would appear to be a random roadside attack if there were two people.

jmo

 

[otto]

We know that there is some evidence that the car is a crime scene, with no details provided. Did they stop for gas anywhere? Fender bender where they stopped their car? Car-jacked and taken down that particular road?

 

[whitelilac]

Can't help but wonder if the grandmother made a call to see why they were late showing up.

I'm sure the investigators have that answer. Would say a lot if the answer was negative.

 

[translator]

If premeditated, why both women? Someone could have ambushed whichever woman was the target when they were alone. And not on the way to picking up kids. Perhaps whoever did this thought it would appear to be a random roadside attack if there were two people.

jmo

Do we know whether Kelley has been involved with this family or the supervised visits before? Perhaps it wasn’t that for her this was just a case of “wrong place, wrong time” but that the perpetrator also had it out for her?

I guess it all comes back to why the police are saying the public isn’t in danger… They haven’t explicitly said they believe whatever happened was targeted but that may be to cover their own backs? Or it could mean that they believe the perpetrator is deceased but then I doubt LE would have publicly said they’re hopeful the women are alive. I understand why we, as the public, don’t get all the details but it sure is confusing!

 

[CuriousCricket]

If premeditated, why both women? Someone could have ambushed whichever woman was the target when they were alone. And not on the way to picking up kids. Perhaps whoever did this thought it would appear to be a random roadside attack if there were two people.

jmo

It being both women has inclined me to think perhaps something happened in a moment of anger at the meet up and there was no going back. If so, the poor children would have been exposed to everything.

 

[whitelilac]

It being both women has inclined me to think perhaps something happened in a moment of anger at the meet up and there was no going back. If so, the poor children would have been exposed to everything.

Gosh, I hope not. I'd think though that by now a person specialized in talking to children would have done so.
Speaking of which, does a guardian need to give permission? I don't know.

 

[steeltowngirl]

That document provides solid foundation for awarding custody of the two children to the father. Setting aside allegations of neglect, the fact that the mother repeatedly and frequently moved between different States, and was unable keep a job, means that she prevented the children from enjoying a stable home environment.

The big question is whether this custody upheaval is related to the two missing women. I'm not convinced.

Isn’t that a document written by the father’s attorneys? He was trying for custody, so they would slant all they could against the mother.

I agree that the big question is whether custody has anything to do with the women missing. Others have mentioned the Rhoden case, but my mind goes to Patrick Frazee / Kelsey Berreth. I may not be convinced, but I will be surprised if VB and JK being missing has to do with anything other than a custody dispute.

jmo