OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[Trino]

Who?
What world do we live in?
A mother trying to get to her children.
Another woman, innocent, wife of a minister, mother of four children.
Presumably unarmed and unaware. Just driving down a road.
What mentally unhinged individual would actually attack, take these women, and now, so it seems, end their lives? Was money involved? Who could live with themselves after committing such a crime?

 

[Trino]

Who?
What world do we live in?
A mother trying to get to her children.
Another woman, innocent, wife of a minister, mother of four children.
Presumably unarmed and unaware. Just driving down a road.
What mentally unhinged individual would actually attack, take these women, and now, so it seems, end their lives? Was money involved? Who could live with themselves after committing such a crime?

Think about it. Six children who no longer have a mother.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

It seems almost like all that business with him is a red herring or distraction.

Red herring to us.
I sense , if the actual perpetrators are familiar with/connected to WR, they just knew he was totally out of the way.

 

[carbuff]

Red herring to us.
I sense , if the actual perpetrators are familiar with/connected to WR, they just knew he was totally out of the way.

Or they thought he was out, didn't know he was going to be immediately in treatment, and thought he would be the main suspect?

 

[Cecelia]

Who?
What world do we live in?
A mother trying to get to her children.
Another woman, innocent, wife of a minister, mother of four children.
Presumably unarmed and unaware. Just driving down a road.
What mentally unhinged individual would actually attack, take these women, and now, so it seems, end their lives? Was money involved? Who could live with themselves after committing such a crime?

We live in a fallen world.

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Sheesh, I didn't log on to WS for days and figured I would today because I assumed they had to have made some sort of progress on this case but here I stand with nothing

 

[Cedars]

Sheesh, I didn't log on to WS for days and figured I would today because I assumed they had to have made some sort of progress on this case but here I stand with nothing

How do you know they haven't made progress? Investigations are normally carried out in complete secrecy so that the suspects don't know what police know or suspect.

JMO

 

[AliceInPain]

I've seen at least two news stations reacting on the lack of updates from LE. NewsNation were surprised by no searches taking place in the area and kake news (?) mentioned something about it too.
I don't think it's very "normal", considering the circumstances.
imo

 

[PNW]

IMO, a typical reaction from a missed visitation would have been to call VB a couple of times/leave voicemail and send a couple of texts while waiting and again when leaving with the kids. If grandmother had JK's contact info (and was expecting her to be the particular supervisor provided by VB that weekend), she would have also called and left a message. I doubt grandmother would call JK's husband and if she did, I'd be curious how she had his contact info. For good measure, grandmother might send a quick email to her attorney to further document the no-show.

I know it seems odd to us for a parent to miss visitation, but I don't think it's particularly unusual in some custody disputes. It wouldn't raise any red flags for me if grandmother acted as I described above and then took the kids out for ice cream or something.

However, due to the contentious nature of the custody dispute and the leverage a missed visit would provide grandmother, I think it *would* raise red flags in my mind if grandmother made any special effort to find out if VB was showing up or where she was, outside some bare minimum calls/texts.

When my son was younger, his dad had specific pickup times per court order. If he missed the pickup, I’d do nothing besides document it and be happy my son didn’t have to go with him. I wouldn’t call him, I wouldn’t worry about what was preventing him from coming, I wouldn’t go out of my way at all for him.

I think it would be very strange for grandma to call Jillian or her husband. I can’t imagine a scenario in which she would do that.

MOO

 

[grannygates]

MOO the lack of updates or requests for help to the general public tells me LE doesn’t need our help. It’s more common than not for LE not to share case info with the general public during an active investigation yet people still act like it’s a sign of incompetence. We see it all the time. They can’t tell us everything they know because they have to protect their case. IMO

 

[Gae]

When my son was younger, his dad had specific pickup times per court order. If he missed the pickup, I’d do nothing besides document it and be happy my son didn’t have to go with him. I wouldn’t call him, I wouldn’t worry about what was preventing him from coming, I wouldn’t go out of my way at all for him.

I think it would be very strange for grandma to call Jillian or her husband. I can’t imagine a scenario in which she would do that.

MOO

I could see a phone call happening more in this particular situation because there was another custody hearing coming up in just a couple of weeks. Grandma may have wanted to contact someone - Veronica or Jillian - just to make it look like she was a caring guardian. Better to show up at a custody hearing saying, "I was concerned about them not showing up" than "I didn't give <modsnip> where they were."

 

[Cecelia]

I've seen at least two news stations reacting on the lack of updates from LE. NewsNation were surprised by no searches taking place in the area and kake news (?) mentioned something about it too.
I don't think it's very "normal", considering the circumstances.
imo

The lack of searches does seem abnormal. Even if they don't want volunteers helping out for some reason, why are LE not out pounding the pavement themselves, as it were, searching for these two women (likely for their remains)?

Several people in the thread have made a point of saying "property owners might not consent to have their fields searched," but when you've got missing (likely deceased) people in the area, does LE really have zero recourse in that regard? Can't they just get a warrant if they have to, like literally every other time they want to search somewhere?

 

[PawneeDew]

Who?
What world do we live in?
A mother trying to get to her children.
Another woman, innocent, wife of a minister, mother of four children.
Presumably unarmed and unaware. Just driving down a road.
What mentally unhinged individual would actually attack, take these women, and now, so it seems, end their lives? Was money involved? Who could live with themselves after committing such a crime?

Someone with something to gain, imo

 

[whowy]

IMO, a typical reaction from a missed visitation would have been to call VB a couple of times/leave voicemail and send a couple of texts while waiting and again when leaving with the kids. If grandmother had JK's contact info (and was expecting her to be the particular supervisor provided by VB that weekend), she would have also called and left a message. I doubt grandmother would call JK's husband and if she did, I'd be curious how she had his contact info. For good measure, grandmother might send a quick email to her attorney to further document the no-show.

I know it seems odd to us for a parent to miss visitation, but I don't think it's particularly unusual in some custody disputes. It wouldn't raise any red flags for me if grandmother acted as I described above and then took the kids out for ice cream or something.

However, due to the contentious nature of the custody dispute and the leverage a missed visit would provide grandmother, I think it *would* raise red flags in my mind if grandmother made any special effort to find out if VB was showing up or where she was, outside some bare minimum calls/texts.

In a harmonious situation you're right imho- grandma would attempt one or more contacts with the no-show parent. However, given the contentious nature of this custody case (as evidenced in the court filings) I feel grandma would have been more likely to call her attorney to report the no-show and possibly get immediate legal advice re: her options.

 

[KariKae]

This is more just curiosity on my part - Would Jilian have been paid to accompany Veronica? Or was child supervision a type of ministry she performed? It does not seem that the two were friends, just acquaintances.

 

[Cedars]

The lack of searches does seem abnormal. Even if they don't want volunteers helping out for some reason, why are LE not out pounding the pavement themselves, as it were, searching for these two women (likely for their remains)?

Several people in the thread have made a point of saying "property owners might not consent to have their fields searched," but when you've got missing (likely deceased) people in the area, does LE really have zero recourse in that regard? Can't they just get a warrant if they have to, like literally every other time they want to search somewhere?

IMO, this time of year a helicopter flyover could detect whether anyone had driven or dragged anything across a field. Also, it's likely LE checked any accessible outbuildings in the vicinity of the highway, around the area. This probably happened within hours of the discovery on the first day, since one/both of the victims could have potentially escaped and run away.

IMO, LE have no evidence to show they were taken somewhere nearby, and/or they have evidence they were removed by vehicle. In that case, searching the fields is a huge waste of resources.

Far better to focus their time on, for eg, searching footage from every camera that a vehicle would have to pass in order to approach that spot. To create a sort of ring of cameras that the suspect vehicle would have to have passed by one of them. And then trying to eliminate non-suspect vehicles, or zero in on the suspicious one and where it came from or went. Or, of course, tracking pins, phone calls, etc.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

The lack of searches does seem abnormal. Even if they don't want volunteers helping out for some reason, why are LE not out pounding the pavement themselves, as it were, searching for these two women (likely for their remains)?

Several people in the thread have made a point of saying "property owners might not consent to have their fields searched," but when you've got missing (likely deceased) people in the area, does LE really have zero recourse in that regard? Can't they just get a warrant if they have to, like literally every other time they want to search somewhere?

Good question.
For a warrant they'd have to be able to show probable cause that the missing person is on the property or that somehow the property owner is connected to the missing person.
Since they don't actually have probable cause for random properties, I doubt they'd be able to get a warrant.

jmo

 

[Cryptic]

I think it would be very strange for grandma to call Jillian or her husband. I can’t imagine a scenario in which she would do that.

Though I am not familiar with custody exchanges.....

Maybe she felt that if the exchange was not made, the other party would only conclude that she had driven off on a pretense and would try to "get even" in the future.

Seeking to avoid a future "one up- got'cha", she decided to call them to see if they were coming?

 

[Cryptic]

Good question.
For a warrant they'd have to be able to show probable cause that the missing person is on the property or that somehow the property owner is connected to the missing person.
Since they don't actually have probable cause for random properties, I doubt they'd be able to get a warrant.

"Some things have two natures, two states of being, each interwoven- yet not the same..... ."

And.... phony mysticism aside,

I think there are different standards for obtaining search warrants depending on what is being searched. Homes would be at the top in regards to difficulty.

Search warrants for cars, businesses and farm fields may have a lower threshold of proof. This could be especially true if the property to be searched is not "curtilage" such as a back yard.

 

[Pyrite]

"Some things have two natures, two states of being, each interwoven- yet not the same..... ."

And.... phony mysticism aside,

I think there are different standards for obtaining search warrants depending on what is being searched. Homes would be at the top in regards to difficulty.

Search warrants for cars, businesses and farm fields may have a lower threshold of proof. This could be especially true if the property to be searched is not "curtilage" such as a back yard.

I’m not a lawyer, but I think search warrants require probable cause that a crime has been committed and evidence will be found in whatever the object of search is. I don’t think it matters whether it’s your car, tractor, house, business, undeveloped property or farm. MOO and I might be totally wrong.

Edited to remove an accidental quote.