OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #3 *Arrests*

[translator]

In some ways, this reminds me of the Patricia Kimmi case in KS (threads here at WS). Her ex-husband somehow talked others into murdering her. I never could understand that. I forget what he promised them in return but it sure wasn't worth what happened! May Veronica and Jillian rest in peace and may all their babies be raised up in love and stability from here on out.

I’ve always wondered how people connect and decide to murder others together… Surely there’s a whole process of “joking” about doing so; like testing the waters or something? I think it’s likely someone (probably TA) suggested murder in the first place and if those around her hadn’t been keen to join in, it might have been that none of this would have happened. That’s probably wishful thinking though… I guess it just wouldn’t have happened when it did but it would have happened eventually.

 

[azure]

I've gone back and forth on it but my current theory is that the plan was only to abduct/kill VB, but something went wrong at the point that their car was intercepted. Either one of the women had a weapon, or called 911, or a shaky hand slipped on the trigger...something happened that both women were shot and killed then and there.

I can come up with various ways the perps may have justified killing VB among themselves, but none whatsoever for JK.

 

[whitelilac]

I'm not so sure that TA was at the car ambush site. The plan was to bring the children to Four Corners or wherever the meeting point would be. She would have had to "keep up appearances" and show up, or at the least feign some excuse. But the children were with her, and they are old enough to answer questions, regardless if they were coached to lie or not. LE has experts in questioning young children. If they weren't with grandma during that time, that would be a major red flag. I wonder if TA actually called VB "we're waiting, where are you?" or some such in order to cover herself.

However, if she's <modsnip - no link provided>and having influence and being in control of the local LE maybe she did leave the kids at home and participated in the actual ambush and killing.

 

[ClearAhead]

I keep wondering where the children were.

Grandma possibly had a live-in nanny.

 

[Universecalling]

I'm not so sure that TA was at the car ambush site. The plan was to bring the children to Four Corners or wherever the meeting point would be. She would have had to "keep up appearances" and show up, or at the least feign some excuse. But the children were with her, and they are old enough to answer questions, regardless if they were coached to lie or not. LE has experts in questioning young children. If they weren't with grandma during that time, that would be a major red flag. I wonder if TA actually called VB "we're waiting, where are you?" or some such in order to cover herself.

However, if she's <modsnip - no link provided>, and having influence and being in control of the local LE maybe she did leave the kids at home and participated in the actual ambush and killing.

MOO, her controlling and vindictive personality would want her to be there.
I would not put it past her to change the clocks on kids electronics and in the car.
She could have shown up at 9 but the clock says 10. Kids are interviewed and they say 10.
However, did she think it through to realize forensics data could disprove all that?

 

[Hestia's Fire]

I really don't think TA was that worried about keeping up appearances in terms of making it look like she was bringing the kids to the visit. She knew Veronica and Jilian were going to die that morning and therefore would never be able to tell anyone she wasn't waiting at Four Corners. I really don't think she expected OSBI or the FBI to become involved in the case. I think she imagined herself telling the local sheriff she had no idea what had become of the women and that would be that, as delusional as that is. She didn't see Veronica or Jilian as human beings of any importance; Veronica was just an obstacle to her getting to keep her grandchildren as she felt entitled to do and Jilian was just collateral damage. She must have been shocked when the story went global right away. I really don't think she expected it to be more than a curious disappearance on the local news that quickly faded into obscurity and became yet another Oklahoma unsolved cold case.

 

[hey-Debbie]

I'm sure I totally missed this somewhere, but where is the Dad?

 

[PommyMommy]

The view tonight when we immediately pulled over in rural Texas County, OK to report the breaking news of two bodies found in the search for #MissingMoms #VeronicaButler and #JilianKelley.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1779707967199220139

 

[whitelilac]

I'm sure I totally missed this somewhere, but where is the Dad?

The dad is in court ordered rehab, and not allowed to have contact for 30 days. That started not too long before this all happened, I don't remember the date.

 

[alexwood]

I'm sure I totally missed this somewhere, but where is the Dad?

Since 22 March 2024, the Dad has been in court-ordered rehab and will remain there for six months.

WR - Court-Ordered Rehab

"More recent court documents [not available in article] show Rickman was recently released from jail for possession of a firearm after a felony conviction. As part of his sentencing, he was required to do in-patient rehabilitation starting on March 22."

"Independent reporter Lauren Conlin shared on X that she spoke with Rickman's grandmother, who confirmed that he has been in rehab since March 22 and will remain in the facility for six months."

 

[concernedmother]

I believe JP was on the phone with her husband or was recording to the cloud. Family was asked not to give interviews. They didn't want searchers and people out hanging posters. That tells me they had a lot of info from the get go. They needed time to collect evidence, process the car etc. And they didn't want people out getting hurt or worse by these people. jmo.

 

[concernedmother]

He's going to need more than rehab. Therapy too to deal with what his mother did. jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I believe JP was on the phone with her husband or was recording to the cloud. Family was asked not to give interviews. They didn't want searchers and people out hanging posters. That tells me they had a lot of info from the get go. They needed time to collect evidence, process the car etc. And they didn't want people out getting hurt or worse by these people. jmo.

This was seemingly incredibly focused from the beginning, as we saw none of the usual signs we see when law enforcement is lost.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was something like a call or a text or some sort of tracking software (find my or something similar).

 

[CuriousCricket]

I can come up with various ways the perps may have justified killing VB among themselves, but none whatsoever for JK.

Killing JK was to protect themselves. There was no way they would leave a witness who could possibly ID them (can you imagine anyone else with TC's beard?) I believe the plan was always to make VB and JK "vanish".

 

[Marie A]

So very sad but grateful that these ladies have likely been found.
Actually it’s a big relief to hear about bodies being recovered after
all the talk about hog farms, cattle incinerators and such.
Y’all were exactly right that someone was going to squawk!
I suppose one of the four traded location of the bodies for immunity
from the death penalty or something along those lines?
All IMHO

 

[Cedars]

I've gone back and forth on it but my current theory is that the plan was only to abduct/kill VB, but something went wrong at the point that their car was intercepted. Either one of the women had a weapon, or called 911, or a shaky hand slipped on the trigger...something happened that both women were shot and killed then and there.

I can come up with various ways the perps may have justified killing VB among themselves, but none whatsoever for JK.

However, they are charged with kidnapping, so that means LE believe the women were taken alive, at some point.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Killing JK was to protect themselves. There was no way they would leave a witness who could possibly ID them (can you imagine anyone else with TC's beard?) I believe the plan was always to make VB and JK "vanish".

Yup. They knew the time they’d be coming and precisely who would be coming. They also knew where they’d be traveling to.

Both of them had to go, but I’m still perplexed as to exactly how this was carried out. That’s probably the biggest question for me.

Hopefully we get some answers tomorrow.

 

[shefner]

Looking at a fairly recent post on CT’s FB, I’m guessing he has a “ride or die” mentality.

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jmo

Ahhh...one of those over zealous, "I'll Die For A Perceived Cause," types.
Well then.
May Justice wield the sword that grants him his wish.

 

[Chimera]

I do wonder what they will plead...each of them.
Or maybe one of them already has a deal if the person talked.
If there's a trial, do they each get one or are they tried together?
I guess it's premature to consider any of this.

I think it's fine to think about it, while we wait for an update.

IMO : The perps -- if found guilty -- need to be sentenced as harshly as the law allows !

Curious if LE were able to follow clues (I.,e., If the perp's phones and vehicle gps were scrutinized) and thus made the arrests when LE had what they needed, or if someone broke and 'talked' ?
My .02 is that someone did talk regarding the location of the remains.
Unfathomable.
Omo.

 

[KooshBall]

I don't think Grandma participated in the actual murders, like some are guessing. Having the children and waiting at 4 corners to meet up with the women would give her what she probably thought was a perfect alibi.