FL - Jennifer Kesse, 24, Orlando, 24 Jan 2006 - #3

Myserty64 said:

Should we make the car the the crime scene and try and build a scenario from there?

Click to expand...

It has to be between the time she closed her apartment door and walked to the car or while in the car. She had her purse including the 2 cell phones, keys to her car, and her ipod. (If someone attacked her in the apartment, he would not have stopped to grab her phone by the bed she was going to use to talk to bf the next morning or keep there for her own safety.)

There is no crime scene inside her apartment they could determine, at least.

SeriouslySearching said:

It has to be between the time she closed her apartment door and walked to the car or while in the car. She had her purse including the 2 cell phones, keys to her car, and her ipod. (If someone attacked her in the apartment, he would not have stopped to grab her phone by the bed she was going to use to talk to bf the next morning or keep there for her own safety.)

There is no crime scene inside her apartment they could determine, at least.

Click to expand...

I tend to agree. Why else would the stuff she goes around with (purse, car keys, cell phone, package with other cell phone that needed to be mailed, ipod) go missing as well? No way this person would just grab all that stuff located around her apartment right? And SeriouslySearching you're not a ghost, we notice you hahaha! Lots of activity though, sometimes if one doesn't keep up, they might skim over some posts and go to the most recent.

Also what UK Sleuth just wrote, that's what I've narrowed it all down to, just about. At least for now.

Did anybody read the apartment reviews on the link I listed? Sad to say, but after reading them, it's not really surprising JK was abducted. Seems to be very shady people living in, around, or associated with Mosaic and that area.

Enrique Sparta said:

you're not a ghost, we notice you hahaha! Lots of activity though, sometimes if one doesn't keep up, they might skim over some posts and go to the most recent.

Did anybody read the apartment reviews on the link I listed? Sad to say, but after reading them, it's not really surprising JK was abducted. Seems to be very shady people living in, around, or associated with Mosaic and that area.

Click to expand...

Thanks Enrique! I appreciate it!

I sure did and OMG! I found SO many things! Check this out:

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/FL-Orlando-Tradition-279062.html

4- Crime, we moved in about a month before the whole shooting incident. THEN, TWO of the apartments in our building were robbed by the guys that had keys (mentioned in another comment). One apartment was DIRECTLY across from ours. My girlfriend and I spoke to management about leaving because she ended up on Xanax because of the anxiety of sleeping and being worried about getting robbed.. or worse, and they were willing to do... you guessed it NOTHING for us.

EVEN MORE TELLING AND A POSSIBLE CLUE:

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/FL-Orlando-Tradition-326011.html

I called the police only to learn that they were already there...Upstairs at another apartment that had been robbed with keys!! Management had the nerve to try and blame us saying that we should have had our alarm on but they quickly changed their tune when we reminded them that we had put in a maintanance request to have the alarm fixed because the phone man had to unhook it because it was wired incorrectly and continually went off! The apartments did an investigation and told us that the construction company was supposed to change all of the locks as soon as the apartment was built and ready to be rented but there were several units that were not done and someone had a master key!

Oh, there is soo much more in those posts, Enrique! I realize some of these were from before the current condos were built/redone...You can put a pretty face on any building...but can you change the crime in the area? I wonder if Jennifer's parents know ANY of this past history of the place?!

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/FL-Orlando-Tradition-277911.html

Hello someone was shooting towards my apartment... so I moved out the next day with all my money back and deposits later I called the police to find out if the guy was cuaght and they said no.. I did a police report on the partment complex and surrounding areas and when they where building those apartments they found a dead body in the woods... beat they didn't tell you that when you moved in and that area has the highest crime rate in central florida!!!!

The police should be talking to every past and current resident of this complex! In particular...the people posting here! Wow! If any of what they say is true...Mosaic has a few skeletons in the closet!

Good work SS and ES.
I also remember reading that there were a lot of registered sex offenders in the area too.

Another worrying aspect was the condo keys. I understand the locks to her apartment were never changed. This was IMO a major slip up by people who were security conscious.
On top of that there was the illusion that Mosaic was a gated community. This was a best partly true because there was easy access from the rear.

SS has uncovered some very disturbing information about robberies carried out with the aid of keys.
It does make you wonder.

I've seen various comments concerning Mosaic and HOTG about paths, woods, shortcuts, a few blocks, and everything in the world that makes it sound like these places are close together and there's a connection between them other than a mile of Conroy which changes name along the way to Americana.

Based on the map I looked at, that includes a major sized highway between them which would have to have an overpass over it.

Am I missing something here?

rd

Thank you for providing the links.

These are a couple of links that caught my attention while checking out the link posted above.

This was written and posted five days after Jennifer was kidnapped/abducted.

Bolded by me.

The crime log for this complex should documented by le. Was it checked?


http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/FL-Orlando-Tradition.html



http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/FL-Orlando-Tradition-405861.html

Date posted: 1/29/2006

<snip>

“I have lived at Mosaic at Millenia (formerly Tradition) for a little over a year now. I have seen a lot of crime in here, the most recent being the mysterious disappearance of Jennifer Kesse. After reading all of these posts about so many different robberies, I cant help but wonder if police have thought of the possibility that maybe someone that works here (maintenance, grounds, etc) had been watching her and was able to get to her.” >

Clearly the mosaic is a hell of a place to live and an attractive blonde living alone was a sitting duck however hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I think this adds more and more weight to the arguement that it is somone local.

Lets face it the CCTV in terms of identifying the person is crap, the original picture and the new footage, there is no facial shot and a hat/beret makes a tremendous difference to a persons appearance.

If the suspect walked past me today without the hat on I don't think I would find anything familiar about them at all.

I hope to god someone recognises the person in the next few days/weeks if they don't I fear the investigation will be cold forever unless the perp
reoffends and they have sufficient physical evidence.

Sadly whatever the outcome I fear it is all too late for jennifer now 16 months on, I hope I am wrong of course.

I keep thinking about the abduction. It seems to me that the only way that someone would actually abduct Jennifer would have to be if she were already at her car. Unless she actually knew the person, I can't think of another reason why they would risk taking her from her condo, to her car and then somewhere else.

Could it be that she left her condo while it was still dark and it was a crime of opportunity (still could be a worker at the complex).

I guess that I am just perplexed as to why someone (if it were a worker) would actually risk abducting her, raping/murdering her, then bringing her car back to the scene later on in the day--unless the car was left at his place of residence and he needed to move it to avoid detection? If this is the case, he would naturally park it close by. So, he could quickly return to work. Could the perp be a temporary (day laborer) type of worker? If so, it is possible that he gave false credentials.

To get her to go, I would think that the person would have to have a gun. Otherwise, I would think that she would have to know the person.

Color me very confused. :waitasec:

If someone had a master key and Jennifer heard someone trying to enter her apartment with a key in the months before she vanished - it makes sense to me that that same person came back and was more successful this time. In light of that, it's very possible she was taken from her apartment and it also means the suspect would have been able to go back to her apartment and tidy up any signs of a struggle after he had taken her wherever he had taken her. I agree that it's a very odd co-incidence that her parents report her missing and then her car is sumped soon after. I really want to know how closely the police looked at people who worked at the Mosiac!

nanandjim said:

I keep thinking about the abduction. It seems to me that the only way that someone would actually abduct Jennifer would have to be if she were already at her car. Unless she actually knew the person, I can't think of another reason why they would risk taking her from her condo, to her car and then somewhere else.

Could it be that she left her condo while it was still dark and it was a crime of opportunity (still could be a worker at the complex).

I guess that I am just perplexed as to why someone (if it were a worker) would actually risk abducting her, raping/murdering her, then bringing her car back to the scene later on in the day--unless the car was left at his place of residence and he needed to move it to avoid detection? If this is the case, he would naturally park it close by. So, he could quickly return to work. Could the perp be a temporary (day laborer) type of worker? If so, it is possible that he gave false credentials.

To get her to go, I would think that the person would have to have a gun. Otherwise, I would think that she would have to know the person.

Color me very confused. :waitasec:

Click to expand...

Nan and Jim

There are so many theories no wonder you are confused so am I!!!!

Were probablytalking about sexual predators here so dont waste your time trying to understand them.

Jennifer had raised concerns about workmen she didnt feel comfortable with.

Jennifer only lived there for 2 months!

Whoever has worked there in that period of time there will be records kept either by the mosaic or whatever contractors they used.

These contractors will know who was employed, where and for how long.
Who was dispatched on what jobs?
They have to pay them don't they!

Even if it was a self employed worker someone had to call them in to do the work.

The first thing I would do is identify every single male that worked or lived on the complex in the two months in which Jennifer lived there.

It can't be that many people!

These all need to be compared to the suspect, height and build wise.

Establish where they all were on the day, check, recheck and check again their alibi.

Obviously check their criminal record to.

If you don't find anyone that fits the bill then check everyone within a 3 mile radius who has a record.

I am convinced LE have come across the perp.

Being as JKs purse, phone and ipod were taken yet the apartment looks unlike a crime scene I believe JK was abducted coming out of her apartment/walking to her car.

I believe she was either taken at gun point in her car to another location or she was bundled into an unused condo and held captive.

Leftcoast makes a very good point that once the alarm was raised it wasnt long before Jennifers car was dumped.

Coincidence? Possibly or was someone aware the alarm had been raised?

There are more questions than answers here however to me everything points to someone incredibly local to the crime and just because nobody has identified the suspect that does not put me off.

My brother is 5ft 5 in and with those clothes and hat could be the suspect in those photos and I wouldnt realise it was my brother.

Some very good points

But, I am going to have to argue with eliminating the possibility of JK being abducted in her condo because of the phones, purse, etc.

Here's why.

first of all, You always start an investigation with the last place someone was known to be alive.

Let's assume JK was abducted in her condo, moved next door, or close by.

If the perp. wanted to move her car, the first thing you do is find a woman's keys, which are usually in her purse. Plus, why not steal her wallet and id for money or souvenoirs.

Who is to say her ipod wasn't in her purse, in her car, or simply sitting next to her purse?

Take me, I always put my briefcase, and anything I need to take to work next to the front door before I go to bed. I don't know JK's habits.

Also, who is to say she would sleep with the cell phone next to her. Maybe, she was already up for the day, and had placed the phone next to her purse, or in her purse.

If someone wantst to stage a scene, move a car, and make it look like the crime occurred on the way to work, you must take a woman's purse. Doesnt' that make sense.

Plus, with all the reports of someone trying to get into Jk's apartment, the crime reports of someone having a master key, etc.

In my mind, a possible scenario is someone had a master key, and just maybe thought JK was not at home, and was going to rob the place. I agree it is remote, but possible. If jk recognizes a maintanace guy, well, ya know what.

I agree the most likely scenario is after she locked that door, and was in her car. But, let's not rule out other scenario's unless we have proof, such as CCTV, a witness, or if LE has other evidence they aren't releasing.

I don't think it is a coincidence the dog led back to Mosaic, nor do I think the crime rate at Mosaic is a coincidence, nor someone trying to get into Jk's apartment.

Who's to say the other break-ins weren't sexually related, but the women were not home?

Who's to say that Jk's wasn't a robbery gone bad, and the perp. cleaned up the scene?

I don't think we should assume anything, or eliminate anything.

Sure, Jk being snatched either at or on the way to her car is the MOST likely, I totally agree, but, let's not eliminate anything, or anyone.

Seasoned crooks, like I believe this guy is, are very good at what they do. If they weren't, they would be in jail. They know how to plan, how to sometimes leave false clues, and how not to leave evidence behind.

funny thing that JK's cellphone was turned off so fast. Do we really think a young kid, or an inexperienced criminal could think so quickly, and not leave a trace.

Sure, he was caught parking the car, so it probably means he is more familar with Mosaic and only knows the location of HOTG. But, in my opinion, the pOI is a member of that community. HE lives, works, or spends a lot of his past time in that area. He fits in, doesn't stick out, and knows shortcuts through the complex.

left

leftcoast said:

...Sure, he was caught parking the car, so it probably means he is more familar with Mosaic and only knows the location of HOTG. But, in my opinion, the pOI is a member of that community. HE lives, works, or spends a lot of his past time in that area. He fits in, doesn't stick out, and knows shortcuts through the complex.

left

Click to expand...

I agree with you that this was not a first-time criminal. It takes nerve and planning to kidnap someone. You never know how the victim will react.

Dale Hinman, a former FBI profiler who has a show on CTV, says that criminals commit crimes in areas where they feel most comfortable. I also believe that the perp either lives or works in the area or spends a lot of time around there. I also believe that they might find JK in another area that he frequents (feels comfortable going).

Lastly, remember what Hannibal Lector said in the movie, "Silence of the Lambs." He said something like, "...What do people covet? They covet what they see every day..."

Who is to say this guy isn't someone who installs security systems, telephones, etc.

Like Rader, he would be an expert, and would also have detailed knowledge of who lives in what apartment.

Who knows, maybe he installed her phone, and liked her, and starting watching her.

Who is going to suspect some guy in a phone truck? Nobody. that's who.

And with the phone truck, you can't use your own truck, due to GPS, people will recall the truck, et.c

Not a conclusion, but something to think about.

Maybe the security systems were shut off on purpose, to facilitate the crimes.

Ya know, Le won't comment on the land line. IS there something there? Was it cut? or is LE just calling a bluff?

left

HMM

What if??

On POI's head, is a "construction helmet".

Remember, some of us thought, hat, I had thought bicycle helmet. But, what about a construction helmet, moves car on lunch break, and back to the construction site next to Mosaic.

It could explain a lot.

Hmm

left

I visited the findjenniferkesse website. The POI's photo has been replaced with still from the video. I can't enlarge the photo to view it. Does anyone know where I can view a copy of the POI where I can enlarge it to study it?

nanandjim said:

I agree with you that this was not a first-time criminal. It takes nerve and planning to kidnap someone. You never know how the victim will react.

Dale Hinman, a former FBI profiler who has a show on CTV, says that criminals commit crimes in areas where they feel most comfortable. I also believe that the perp either lives or works in the area or spends a lot of time around there. I also believe that they might find JK in another area that he frequents (feels comfortable going).

Click to expand...

While I agree with both those statements, I find them at odds with each other given what we know of this crime.

If the criminal is experienced and in an area he's familiar with, you'd think there would be some other similar crimes both prior to and after JK in the vicinity.

And if he's a first timer that just got really lucky so far, you wonder why it hasn't happened again.

I thought about this after reading those posts...what if the perp USED to work for one of the construction crews long before Jennifer even moved in and just kept his master key knowing he could do break-ins later? It would give him access to a number of empty condos and garages. Maybe he did take her out of the shower and whisk her off quickly to an empty condo nearby. Once he had her under control, he could have moved the car easily and there would be no signs of a struggle.

I hate to say this, but with all the illegal immigrants we have around here at least...majority of those get paid cash under the table...so they aren't ON the payroll and are mostly in either drywall, paint, or cement construction. To work for an alarm or phone company, workers are more regulated due to bonding issues etc. The reason I mentioned the Mall earlier was because it was close enough for the person to work there instead of being still at Mosaic. It would have been another place Jennifer frequented on a regular basis. They do all sorts of commercial constuction work at malls, too.

If they track down the burglary suspects from the initial crimes...they will probably find their suspect in Jennifer's disappearance. I hope they have fingerprints or clues from those events to compare to. It doesn't sound to me like Mosaic or the LE did much to stop the problem.

Has anyone been able to find anything about a body they found in the woods back in 04? I know LE doesn't like to connect dots unless they have proof of that connection, but sometimes if they walk like a duck, talk like a duck, well..you know. It wouldn't be a stretch.

nanandjim said:

I visited the findjenniferkesse website. The POI's photo has been replaced with still from the video. I can't enlarge the photo to view it. Does anyone know where I can view a copy of the POI where I can enlarge it to study it?

Click to expand...

Can't you still go to the "jenniferkesse.com" website, go to the left column, scroll down a bit, and hit the "poi" link.

It will take you to the pictures of the POI, which can be enlarged.

I hope that is what you are asking about.

left

Does anyone know a local reporter in the area? I think someone needs to go door to door and question the residents of Mosaic for further information on crimes before and during Jennifer's stay there. Since LE seems to have dropped the ball in that area, obviously the residents have plenty to say about it and someone should be investigating. There is no telling what could come up during such an investigation. Residents may have serious clues connected to Jennifer and have not put 2 and 2 together.