NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

Had a thought come over me while having my morning cuppa, over here if you want a new start you can change your name by deed poll, not sure about the USA, is it different in each state? found this link, if she did change her name legally there should be a register..


http://www.nycourts.gov/courthelp/namechangeinfo.html

Saracen said:

Had a thought come over me while having my morning cuppa, over here if you want a new start you can change your name by deed poll, not sure about the USA, is it different in each state? found this link, if she did change her name legally there should be a register..


http://www.nycourts.gov/courthelp/namechangeinfo.html

Click to expand...

Way back in the "olden days", you didn't even have to go to court to change your name (my grandfather just changed his last name to an English variation), and there was no record at all. If Sylvia did this, there should be a record, a trail to follow, if LE wanted to. I have no logical reason for thinking so, but I don't think she did this. I suppose she could have run off, pregnant, leaving a disapproving family behind, but without more insight into her family, I have a hard time believing that she left all of her immediate family behind forever, without a trace. She might have been angry and upset, but I don't think she would have gone to the trouble of hiding all sign of herself from them. I think the only way you can change your name and assume a new ID these days without there being some sort of public record is in the Witness Protection-and I am not even sure about that! (didn't the feds relocate Sammy the Bull, but everyone still found out where he was?)

Just read the link that Saracen posted-if your safety is at risk, your name change application is sealed...I onder if it is sealed against LE?

Does anyone else think that if somebody left their family behind willingly, they might actually Google themselves to see what is out there about themselves? If she is out there somewhere, then she knows her family was looking for her. I don't know, but I do think she isn't out there, living her life.

Jmoose said:

Does anyone else think that if somebody left their family behind willingly, they might actually Google themselves to see what is out there about themselves? If she is out there somewhere, then she knows her family was looking for her. I don't know, but I do think she isn't out there, living her life.

Click to expand...

I don't think she ran away either
Based on nothing but MO

One would think that by now there would be a few words in the official documentation about what her fiance stated the argument was about. That must have been told to LE, and to Sylvia's parents.

Wonder why that has been left out for so many decades. Interesting.

That makes me lean towards a possible pregnancy, but wonder why that would be withheld if something more sinister than she left on her own accord occurred.

I cannot discount that at this time without more info.

gajonka said:

The HUNT Continues.
After Sylvia Lwowoski's mom finished her desperate search for her daugfhter - on the night she disappered, she reached out to Sylvia Lwowski's good friend, and the two decided to take a trip up to Wagner college (mobile phone thought enters my mind) to see if she went up there - obvi, no luck.

Click to expand...

Okay, I misread this as meaning in Manhattan bc at the time, that's where I thought it was. Sorry for the confusion.

epiphany said:

I had always associated Wagner College as located in Staten Island during that 1970s time period. Perhaps, campuses later in Manhattan.

Click to expand...

Much appreciated, epiphany. I went back to see why I thought it was in Manhattan. Under the About tab on Wagner.edu, it says it's located in "New York City." I did not realize that Staten Island is considered part of NYC. I don't think Wagner is in Manhattan at all, and that blows my theory about SL's possible comfort with Manhattan. (It doesn't mean she didn't know the city, just that I no longer see her enrollment in Wagner as a factual basis for the assumption. On side note, going into Manhattan was a rite of passage for those of us who lived close enough to do it on our own. I was doing it at age 16.)

epiphany said:

Cannot travel by subway from Staten Island to Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc.

There are no subways in the borough of Staten Island.

Click to expand...

I was thinking there were above-ground or even elevated trains into Manhattan, but I was wrong. Wagner mentions the "free Staten Island Ferry" as the 25-minute option for going into Manhattan from its campus, so I am guessing that's the fastest way in. Acc. to Wikipedia, trains provide service within the island only. To get a train or subway into Manhattan, you'd have to drive or take a bus across the Verrazano to Brooklyn. However, there are also buses that go all the way to Manhattan. Surprisingly, the commute into Manhattan , assuming she went by ferry, would have been almost as long for SL as it was for me from Metuchen (10-minute difference). If she took the bus, the commutes would probably be equally long.

Saracen said:

This is the bit that bugs me, I am just trying to picture them at the point she left the car, she had a handbag (on the floor between her feet?), they have this row, she throws her glasses on the dashboard?, takes her purse out of her handbag and leaves? why not take the handbag?? and moreso, what happened to the handbag? did the b/f get rid of it?...

Click to expand...

Re the part BBM, in my world, a purse and a handbag are the same thing. Are you reading "purse" as "wallet?" I am not sure we made that distinction even back then. I was thinking the only (verified) thing she left behind was the glasses.

Jmoose said:

Way back in the "olden days", you didn't even have to go to court to change your name (my grandfather just changed his last name to an English variation), and there was no record at all. If Sylvia did this, there should be a record, a trail to follow, if LE wanted to.
....
I think the only way you can change your name and assume a new ID these days without there being some sort of public record is in the Witness Protection-and I am not even sure about that! (didn't the feds relocate Sammy the Bull, but everyone still found out where he was?)

Click to expand...

Yes, without any opinion one way or the other (as to "missing" vs. "foul play"), I was thinking it would have been easier back then to change a name too. If she did not have an SSN yet, the first one she got could have been with a new name. Also, there were no ciminal history or missing persons databases, no cheap and fast ways to even circulate photos of the "wanted" or the "missing." So she could have easily lied on job applications; her "good girl" appearance would likely have raised no red flags.

Odyssey said:

A lot of Staten Island people went to college in Manhattan. The only college I can think of on Staten Island is the College of Staten Island but I'm not sure that college existed then. IIRC it is on the grounds where the Willowbrook State School (For the Criminally Insane) sat in 1974.

Click to expand...

Odyssey, given your deeper familiarity with the area, maybe you can help me with this. I remember class differences running pretty deep on SI, as distinguished by the neighborhood you lived in. If indeed SL and her BF/F went to different high schools, would Tottenville High School and Port Richmind represent different social classes at that time? It would be interesting to see a map of the different neighborhoods. I vaguely remember a more blue collar neighborhood being closer to the NJ side, on the inland portion of the island.

Re the part BBM (and a little OT), your recollection of this and epiphany's thoughts about the Geraldo expose of Willowbrook brought all of that back to me as well. The conditions at Willowbrook were dreadful.

GoingByMyGut said:

Re the part BBM, in my world, a purse and a handbag are the same thing. Are you reading "purse" as "wallet?" I am not sure we made that distinction even back then. I was thinking the only (verified) thing she left behind was the glasses.

Click to expand...

That is where my confusion is coming from, here a purse goes inside a handbag, a purse just carries cash and cards ( which were n/a in 75 i think)

epiphany said:

Yes, the buildings on the hundreds of acres of the infamous warehouse known as Willowbrook State School (for individuals with intellectual disabilities, back then labelled mentally retarded) eventually became part of the College of SI (about early 90s).

O/T

I had the shock of my life walking around the floors of Willowbrook State School a short time prior to Geraldo Rivera's famous and shocking 1972 expose of Willowbrook, which helped push massive reforms in NYS in the way such individuals are to be treated in a humane society.

I will never, ever forget what I saw...even if I wanted to, it simply could never be erased from my memory.

(I have never lived on SI.)

Click to expand...

I don't think you can read anything about Willowbrook School without becoming familiar with Andre Rand, so I'm guessing you've heard of him.

For those who aren't familiar with him, Andre Rand was a drifter but worked at Willowbrook School at some point, and later lived in makeshift campsites on the school grounds.

He was convicted in the cases of Jennifer Schweiger (found deceased), a girl with down syndrome, and Holly Hughes (still missing), a young girl.

He is suspected in virtually every disappearance on Staten Island, and I'm sure he would have been a suspect in Sylvia's case if it had been treated as an abduction.

His 'presumed' victims include adults, such as Ethel Atwell (missing) and Shin Lee (found deceased). I'll have to poke around and see if I can figure out where Rand was in 1975, although I've always had doubts as to whether he was responsible for the adult cases. I don't think they were easy enough targets for him.

I guess it's still worth a look, though...

Dushi said:

[/b]

I don't think she ran away either
Based on nothing but MO

Click to expand...

One significant obstacle that SI presents in finding out what happened to SL, if the worst case scenario of murder is true, is the existence of the Fresh Kills landfill. Like NJ, SI had a reputation as "NYC's garbage can" bc Fresh Kills took trash from Manhattan. As others before me have said, trash was big business for the mafia. Fresh kills had the same level of infamy Tony Soprano "fictionally" brought to the NJ Meadlowlands. Bodies dumped there were likely never found (in those days, it was thought of as a dead end to a search). The dump is closed and has been cleaned up, and there were plans to build a park on the site, though I don't know if the park has been created. It would have been the most logical place for a body dump. Of course, other scenarios are also possible (and killers aren't always logical). Just a thought.

Saracen said:

That is where my confusion is coming from, here a purse goes inside a handbag, a purse just carries cash and cards ( which were n/a in 75 i think)

Click to expand...

I thought that may be where your confusion came from:cheers:

I call that a wallet

GoingByMyGut said:

Odyssey, given your deeper familiarity with the area, maybe you can help me with this. I remember class differences running pretty deep on SI, as distinguished by the neighborhood you lived in. If indeed SL and her BF/F went to different high schools, would Tottenville High School and Port Richmind represent different social classes at that time? It would be interesting to see a map of the different neighborhoods. I vaguely remember a more blue collar neighborhood being closer to the NJ side, on the inland portion of the island.

Re the part BBM (and a little OT), your recollection of this and epiphany's thoughts about the Geraldo expose of Willowbrook brought all of that back to me as well. The conditions at Willowbrook were dreadful.

Click to expand...

Willowbrook School: Hundreds of acres of land...drove in with another and wandered around property both inside and out, without ever being asked what we were doing there, or to even identify ourselves...that is, by the very few staffers and workers we could see.

Not convinced IF foul play involved would necessarily "need" to leave 1975 Staten Island.

Dushi said:

I thought that may be where your confusion came from:cheers:

I call that a wallet

Click to expand...

LOL here Men carry wallets, Ladies carry purses..

So if my words sound sometimes strange please make allowenceslease:

Saracen said:

That is where my confusion is coming from, here a purse goes inside a handbag, a purse just carries cash and cards ( which were n/a in 75 i think)

Click to expand...

Sorry about that, Saracen. Yes, I meant to say handbag (It took a while for me to stop referring to handbags as pocketbooks)!

So, she is said to have been carrying her handbag when she ran out of the car (according to fiance), but it is unknown whether or not she had money with her (PR-Mother).

Suppose it depends upon what her habits were. It may not have been her habit to carry money when she was with fiancee, as may not have been needed to pay any expenses when with him. Handbag may have simply contained brush, makeup, etc.

epiphany said:

I thought she looked very different in each of the 3 photos available.

3 different hair colors...not unusual, but am curious about the span of time between each of the photos.

Click to expand...

Classmates.com has two entries for SL @ Wagner College:
* The first one has two photos attached to it, both of which we have on p. 1 of this thread, but one that we have in b/w is in color on the website and shows her hair more strawberry blonde like another of the ones we have. The link I created won't be useful to you unless you are a member, so I'll try to post in here, but I don't know if I can post a photo from my desktop.

BTW, this listing shows her enrollment dates as 1971-75, which suggests she didn't graduate.

I've included the photo as an attachment? Please give feedback as to whether you can open it.

* The second entry has no photos and list the dates as 1970-74, which suggests she did graduate.

We could use some help differntiating info like this. Can we assume the one with the photos is the "official" one? And since Classmates.com (and ahem, the Internet) didn't exist in 1974, who posted these?

Agree, Gut...I have not been convinced that she completed/received her college degree.

Another question I had was whether or not she had taken a term off from college, and if so, when was that?

We need date of engagement, too. At publication of announcement, she is identified as a Senior Biology Major.

Also interesting in light of personal opinions and beliefs she may have held concerning pregnancy and termination (more than once) of.

I can open, Gut.

So lovely in that photo!

Some further observations after reading the excellent input from everyone, here. The fleshing out of this era and location are taking shape. Even though it doesn’t seem like this woman could still be alive, she well might be.

• Viet Nam American exit 1973-1975. -

• Drinking age- 18 in 1974, disco era in full swing but big clubs like Studio 54, Mudd Club, etc. opened in the late 70’s. -Dancing was big time fun back then.

• Roe vs Wade – 1973. Abortion is a still a hot bed of controversy, today but back then it was total heartbreak, compounded with shame decision. Could Sylvia’s first abortion compel her to become engaged to quell the “shame” of her family, and society’s shame? She was pregnant at the time of her disappearance? (Sorry if I am dense). This was a very confusing time for women, men, and especially traditional families. Things like living out of wedlock and abortion tore some families apart.

IMO -I feel a more filled out portrait of Sylvia’s family and friends will give some clues. (all imo)

• -Her father. Perhaps a really complex relationship here, drinking, inappropriate behavior at party is contrasted with disciplined, contained military training. Father is a military man. -Traditional family? -Strong feelings about counter culture? This divide was so great, some kids were excommunicated from their families if they didn’t ‘straighten up and fly right’.

• -Her mother. What was her relationship like with her mother? Could she talk to her mom about her troubles? Or was she passive in deference to her father? (My mother was my rock and as wild as I was back then I know I could never have broken her heart and run away, forever.)

• -Her brother, younger? Were they close? Dushi, how would one even go about inviting him to a WS discussion? I wouldn’t even know what to say?

• -Her friends. Could they help give a sense of Sylvia’s assertiveness or timidity? Would they protect her? In my short-term rebellious “run-aways”--afternoons, overnights, etc., my friends would never divulge my whereabouts!

• -Her fiancé. I was struck by the quoted language of his description of what happened that night to LE. Did he really talk like that? (“wuz, cuz”) It seems incongruous as he was a Music Ed. Major at NYU?

Sylvia was a beautiful woman in an era of free thinkers, new directions, philosophy and religion. Romance is everywhere. How did her fiancé handle the advances of other men?

I am pretty amazed at how many of us are in Sylvia’s age group. I remember those times as completely tumultuous and creatively brilliant. Those were the days….