Should baby K be allowed to see TH? ***POLL***

Should baby K be allowed to see TH?

  • No, baby K is not safe around TH

    Votes: 81 31.3%

  • Yes, baby K needs her mother

    Votes: 11 4.2%

  • Yes, there is not proof that TH committed any crime

    Votes: 40 15.4%

  • Yes, but only under supervision

    Votes: 85 32.8%

  • Not sure

    Votes: 18 6.9%

  • No. She will try to kidnap baby K and it will end badly.

    Votes: 7 2.7%

  • No, she will manipulate baby K during these visits

    Votes: 4 1.5%

  • No, there is reason to believe TH committed a crime

    Votes: 13 5.0%

  • Yes, maybe it will trigger something and get her to finally talk.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    259

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Even supervised visits are not always the answer. I'd be afraid until it is determined if Terri is involved with Kyron's disappearance, that any visitation even supervised should not be allowed for safety reasons for K. We already have one missing child.

Anyone remember the Clark Rockefeller case? He claimed to be from the aristocratic family and was not, is suspected of murdering two people, fled to the US and took on a new Alias, and on a supervised visit he knocked down the man supervising the visit and took off on the run with his daughter. Just like in this case people described him as being a little different, cool, aloof but they were so surprised that he had done this.

http://www.boston.com/news/specials/rockefeller_abduction/
 
She probably doesn't miss Terri, because 4 months is much to long for her to even remember Terri, at her age.
 
She disappeared Kyron, possibly to get at Kaine! Well Terri, how does it feel, to be without your child? KARMA!!
 
ClueMeIn said:
She probably doesn't miss Terri, because 4 months is much to long for her to even remember Terri, at her age.
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There is much research and evidence that contradicts that, actually. The memory may be somewhat vague, but it is absolutely embedded. In fact, 50 years from now, under hypnosis, she would be able to recall great detail about her experiences so far with her mother. Trust me please; I am also a certified hypnotherapist and have experience with this.
 
I answered NOT SURE. I am torn between that and with very strict supervision at all times in a nuetral place that is impossible to exit with a child unauthorized.

But despite the fact that there is a very uncomfortable fencerail up my Butt and has been for months, I think above all - Baby K's safety must ourweight her need for her mother and vice versa.
 
I think LE knows if this is wise or not-If Terri can be cleared,then yes but IF she is a strong suspect-she has totally lost that right IMO.Something has to give in this case-Why is a mother being kept from her child unless there is good reason to do so?I would be a mad woman by now-if I were innocent and people were keeping me from my child.None of this makes sense to me.
 
grandmaj said:
Even supervised visits are not always the answer. I'd be afraid until it is determined if Terri is involved with Kyron's disappearance, that any visitation even supervised should not be allowed for safety reasons for K. We already have one missing child.

Anyone remember the Clark Rockefeller case? He claimed to be from the aristocratic family and was not, is suspected of murdering two people, fled to the US and took on a new Alias, and on a supervised visit he knocked down the man supervising the visit and took off on the run with his daughter. Just like in this case people described him as being a little different, cool, aloof but they were so surprised that he had done this.

http://www.boston.com/news/specials/rockefeller_abduction/
Click to expand...

I agree with this, based on my experience serving as the supervisor for court-appointed visitation. And not because I'd be afraid terri might try to 'disappear' K. I would be more concerned at this point that Terri just might be more mentally ill than anyone ever realized and this could be very disturbing to K.
 
I don't know. As far as babyK is concerned, the situation concerns so much more than current visitation. For instance, when she (babyK) is older she will probably wonder why her mother didn't fight like H E double hockey sticks from day one to be a part of her every day life, why her mother didn't plead for the return of her beloved brother, why her mother retained a top of the line defense attorney, why her mother was "in contact" with a former classmate of her father for anything more than finding her older brother, etc.
I think the long term affect this will have on babyK is so complicated it's amazing.
I hope that made sense?
 
FORDANIEL said:
I think LE knows if this is wise or not-If Terri can be cleared,then yes but IF she is a strong suspect-she has totally lost that right IMO.Something has to give in this case-Why is a mother being kept from her child unless there is good reason to do so?I would be a mad woman by now-if I were innocent and people were keeping me from my child.None of this makes sense to me.
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Who says she is being kept? She has not been fighting her loss of custody these last few months now, has she? She has no one but herself to blame for lack of visits or custody of the baby. She has not cooperated with LE about what she knows; if she were innocent, she'd be fighting tooth and nail to not only help find Kyron, but to see her daughter again and be a part of her life. Instead she is cowering in mommy and daddy's basement, working out - probly in hopes of entering the next body building competition.
 
I believe that there is a good reason that she has legally been kept from her child.And seems to be somewhat "detained".Hope this never ends up to be one of those slip through the cracks screw ups-we see far too many of those!
 
FORDANIEL said:
I believe that there is a good reason that she has legally been kept from her child.And seems to be somewhat "detained".Hope this never ends up to be one of those slip through the cracks screw ups-we see far too many of those!
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Yeah, her trying to get the baby from the gym while he was working out could be a good indicator - you know, that asking when Kaine usually comes to work out and could someone please call and let her know when he's there and who knows what else she tried to schnoozle out of them?
 
The baby girl would probably like to see her brothers and grandparents, too. I think it needs to be determined whether or not there was any mistreatment or abuse going on in the home before anyone is allowed to see the baby. I don't understand why Kaine would have any mixed feelings about the issue if he feels that Kyron was harmed by Terri. Kids taken away by child protective services due to being harmed aren't allowed to see their parents for good reason. I'm wondering if Kaine is going to fight visitation no matter how long or what it takes after making that statement. Of course the baby misses her mom, but things didn't turn out too well for Kyron, and visits right now would only upset the baby more IMO.
 
It doesn't sound as though anyone ever had even the slightest worry about Terri being with Kyron and the baby almost 24 hours a day for most of their lives.

Unless she has experienced a complete psychotic break, I don't see why she would be a danger to the baby if she can only see her with supervision. She clearly dotes on the child and may see too much of herself in the baby to ever dream of hurting her. The baby is the image of her mother, in my opinion.

Assuming Oregon child services is competent, I don't think Terri would be able to flee with the baby.
 
The way I see it is that the issue of stability is really the important one at this time in this innocent child's life. I think it's safe to assume that Baby K is used to not being around Terri, and has been used to that for some time now.

This doesn't mean that if she were around her mother again, that all kinds of memories and feelings would not be rekindled.

But would this be a good thing? What kind of new conflicts would this bring up in the child, to suddenly be with her mother again...but now it would be in visits (probably supervised)...with the distinct possibility that her mother might "disappear" again...this time for good (into prison)?

Plus, think of the added tension in her home with whatever feelings Kaine would surely go if he had to take his daughter to see her mother, or to a court appointed supervisor..whatever the arrangements would be.

This child has also had to get used to her big brother, who I bet she adored, suddenly being out of her life.

I think she needs stability now...and not more changes.

If her mother is someday freed of the suspicion that now surrounds her, and can provide a predictable routine of visits (or even shared custody) that wouldn't be subject to being abruptly stopped, then that would be a different story. Until then....Terri should stay out of her life. I think that would be the most unselfish thing for her to do.

My opinion.
 
The second there is some evidence that Terri is the predator my mind will change. Until then - yes I believe she should see her baby girl. Eighteen months is a critical time to yank a baby away from her mommy - separation anxiety will be peak and can last a lifetime. I can't believe anybody really believes that a 18mo wouldn't miss her beloved mother, and let's not forget there are two brothers she's not seeing. moo

It's been said that Terri was a wonderful mom - Kaine, Desiree, friends, and Terri's son have said nothing but nice things about Terri's care taking abilities. Until some evidence shows up that Terri is a harmful predator, I can't agree with most. I think baby has everything to gain from being with a safe, loving mommy. moo mho
 
eyes4crime said:
The second there is some evidence that Terri is the predator my mind will change. Until then - yes I believe she should see her baby girl. Eighteen months is a critical time to yank a baby away from her mommy - separation anxiety will be peak and can last a lifetime. I can't believe anybody really believes that a 18mo wouldn't miss her beloved mother, and let's not forget there are two brothers she's not seeing. moo

It's been said that Terri was a wonderful mom - Kaine, Desiree, friends, and Terri's son have said nothing but nice things about Terri's care taking abilities. Until some evidence shows up that Terri is a harmful predator, I can't agree with most. I think baby has everything to gain from being with a safe, loving mommy. moo mho
Click to expand...

Murder for hire plots don't count?
 
AlexisFresca said:
Murder for hire plots don't count?
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Sure it counts - if it actually happened. No arrest, no charges - I'm not for taking away mommy visits based on innuendo. I've seen nothing in Terri's life that she hurts her children or any child for that matter.

I have no doubt her baby girl would remember her smell, her touch, her breathing, her skin, her caresses and smiles. supervised of course. all just my opinions and that stuff
 
eyes4crime said:
The second there is some evidence that Terri is the predator my mind will change. Until then - yes I believe she should see her baby girl. Eighteen months is a critical time to yank a baby away from her mommy - separation anxiety will be peak and can last a lifetime. I can't believe anybody really believes that a 18mo wouldn't miss her beloved mother, and let's not forget there are two brothers she's not seeing. moo

It's been said that Terri was a wonderful mom - Kaine, Desiree, friends, and Terri's son have said nothing but nice things about Terri's care taking abilities. Until some evidence shows up that Terri is a harmful predator, I can't agree with most. I think baby has everything to gain from being with a safe, loving mommy. moo mho
Click to expand...

Thank you, this is exactly how i feel regarding this issue. I currently see everyone in this family as a victim. If allowing baby K to see her mom can alleviate some of that victimization then i feel visitation should be provided. Baby K is an innocent child if there is no evidence that TH is responsible I can't see why she should have to lose her mother.

Having said that however there is the other side to this that is just as strong(no visitation due to the abusive situation Kyron may have been subjected too and the MFH on her father) making this an almost impossible situation regarding K. If we state "if the evidence is there it should be presented". What happens then? TH is arrested and charged but truly until a trial i'm not sure how that could be resolved being charged and arrested doesn't make you guilty. If it did we would not need a trial. The time that would pass until trial could be years. If we say visitation should be allowed and she is guilty then what? Should baby K at that point have visitation taken away and traumatize her once again at losing her mom.

Tough call, I'm thinking supervised visitation that will stay in place regardless of Th's guilt. With gradual steps to unsupervised visitation if she is innocent. This is my assessment based on what I feel to be right for K..assuming baby k loves her mom and needs her and that her mother truly loves her. My personal issue being what i FEEL and what i THINK or see as being responsible do not always reconcile.
Hope that makes some sense :)
 
eyes4crime said:
Sure it counts - if it actually happened. No arrest, no charges - I'm not for taking away mommy visits based on innuendo. I've seen nothing in Terri's life that she hurts her children or any child for that matter.

I have no doubt her baby girl would remember her smell, her touch, her breathing, her skin, her caresses and smiles. supervised of course. all just my opinions and that stuff
Click to expand...

The child is number one. The child is who's interests need protecting, first and foremost, not the mom. The child's welfare always, always must come first.

If there was any indication that the MFH was bunk, then Kaine would not have gotten the RO against Terri, nor would he have left the premises with the baby.

And if you think she's done nothing wrong, ie hurting any children she's been around, her own included, why do you say 'supervised of course'?
 
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