IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

Walker said:

We don't know the personal background of ZO, and the frat is known to make exceptions.

JW-ZO-AB-HT-BB-others vs. JR-CR-MB-DR-LS-others?

A strong split with friction between the two groups might imply that members of JW's group are less likely to be culpable in LS's disappearance; since given the Smallwood altercation, they could not count on support or protection from JR or MB. Therefore, if JR or MB misrepresented the facts, they were only protecting themselves and/or CR.

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ZO, AB, and BB are all from Indianapolis. They went to high school together. BB apparently worked for ZO's dad's company this summer.

My daughter went to IU and told me that it is highly unlikely that the ZO/AB group would hang out with the CR/MB/LS/DR group.

The only connection I can come up with is that ZO might be a candy salesman.

As far as JW goes, it looks as if he might have been on the edge of the JR/CR/etc. group. If he was spending most of his time with LS earlier in the school year, that would explain how he was on the edge of a group.

The original report about a "friend of the boyfriend" punching CR was from a "witness." I think that "witness" was a friend of ZO's (AB? HT?) and the statement was made to mask the true reason for the fight. (anger at CR for letting LS talking loudly at the bar about what she had been taking that evening).

Well, going by what folks on here have told me the past few days ZO/AB are besties, AB and JR are friends, and JR and CR are friends too so that would be one possible connection between the two groups.


I do have to say I think there is more to the story than someone waiting for and then beating up CR because LS said something at a bar.

Carmen101 said:

ZO, AB, and BB are all from Indianapolis. They went to high school together. BB apparently worked for ZO's dad's company this summer.

My daughter went to IU and told me that it is highly unlikely that the ZO/AB group would hang out with the CR/MB/LS/DR group.

The only connection I can come up with is that ZO might be a candy salesman.

As far as JW goes, it looks as if he might have been on the edge of the JR/CR/etc. group. If he was spending most of his time with LS earlier in the school year, that would explain how he was on the edge of a group.

The original report about a "friend of the boyfriend" punching CR was from a "witness." I think that "witness" was a friend of ZO's (AB? HT?) and the statement was made to mask the true reason for the fight. (anger at CR for letting LS talking loudly at the bar about what she had been taking that evening).

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Would JR and MB go to any great lengths to protect ZO, though? Disposing of a body of their friend, possibly fabricating a cover story?

Gabby66 said:

IMO Lauren is located in an area at least fairly familiar (if not very familiar) to one or more of the POIs. This could be as close as a nearby woods or lake, or as far away as MI (or somewhere along the way). Because I don't feel that this was premeditated, I think there was likely a LOT of fear involved. Therefore, I just don't think these boys would add to that fear by accepting more risk of possibly being seen. I think they'd wrap her up and get the heck outa there.

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that's been my thinking for a while now, panic set in and retreat to familiarity was the blanket warm solution to a very cold feeling.

PlainJaneDoe said:

We are allegedly dealing with Xanax, not just alcohol. This is very different from alcohol alone, even when Xanax is taken alone. I, and I think Elmomom, have posted a bunch about it. I will dig them up for you if you like.

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In an earlier thread, there was brief discussion of the possibility that LS and perhaps even CR were experiencing a new substance that night. I profferred the dissociative anesthetic ketamine (v popular on the jam band scene) as a potential culprit that could explain CR's memory loss/crashing into bed (a "k-hole" perhaps) as well as LS's observed inability to walk or function without someone helping her along.

Darcyline said:

I would really like to ask JR about her feet. In fact, if I had one question to ask him it may even be that (well, ok, are you telling the truth may be first, but I am imagining he would say yes to that no matter what).

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Very interesting, perhaps even the thin edge of the wedge to getting JR to open up a bit. Just ask him to answer that one simple question, re: the state of LS's feet/footwear while she was in his presence. "was she wearing shoes?" most people will immediately notice if someone coming in from the outside that time of night isn't and take note of it, i would think.

If JR had provided her with footwear, it seems as though that would have been included in the "missing" info...or at least as items to be looked out for, by searchers. And if he truly watched her walk away, he should have noticed she was barefoot, IMO...

I think with a group of people this age, familiararity would play a big role as to where they might put her, if she died in the company; either someplace close to their home, or more likely someplace local that they know well. Maybe that is why there was a tip about that one specific lake early on.

luna80 said:

If indeed CS's use of the word "friend" was pointed at one of the POI's; maybe just maybe it's MB they're trying to crack. MB was quoted early on as saying "She was our friend too"

I suspect MB knows quite a bit regarding what happened that night. He too, in addition to JW, had his wits about him that night.

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Agreed, MB, for whatever reason, more recently has struck me as a potentially more significant POI than what much of the discussion seemed to assume early on (at least I dismissed him as less significant than CR/JR at first).

What led me there was the statement/claim/observation made by someone (MB or HT?) that LS, before departing for JR's, asked MB if he wanted to party with her.
Given that LS had multiple options at that point, what was it about MB that (allegedly/ostensibly) made her first ask him to party before resorting to JR or even her bf JW or someone back at Smallwood.

I theorized that MB might've been the actual supplier of all this party fun. But there's absolutely nothing to indicate that in any known statements/facts.

The observation that it's always the quiets ones you need to look out for might apply in MB's case.

AnalyticalExaminer said:

I am not a "fan" of anyone other than the S family.

I'm not sure it need be pointed out that there is all sorts of activity on the internet from which the active party has nothing to "gain." Your post above is consistent with such activity in my opinion. It contains nothing to substantiate the supposed sighting, which you are welcome to supply at any time.

I should add that my suspicions of HT's knowledge have grown slightly with some recent posts on this site. But I think the best lead on these matters is the S family. And I read their recent statements to point at JR first, and HT perhaps not at all.

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Do you have any specific locations or areas that you think JR might have hidden the body that you would care to help me search this weekend? (other than the landfill)

phantomthought said:

The only reason I say that is it seams very strange that CR and JR lived right next door to each other and were friends yet during the whole school year HT,LS never met him.Then they meet at the races and all of a sudden LS and CR are both at JR's at the same time which apparently has not happen during the whole school year.

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This kinda dovetails with my egregiously unsupported theory that MB/CR were the providers/connection to obtain whatever "party" substances this group enjoyed.

It makes some sense in that regard that JR would not out his supplier to any and everyone he hung out with--even (especially?) when his supplier was his neighbor.

e.g.,
JR got his gear from MB/CR and shared it with LS/HT et al (perhaps sometimes sold it to them at cost) but never told them about CR/MB being his source. CR (and maybe MB?) meet LS and the others at the Indy weekend and LS quickly sorts that this/these is/are the guys JR is getting his gear from.
Hence when they get back to Bloomington, LS is eager to party with CR and/or MB.

AnalyticalExaminer said:

I am not a "fan" of anyone other than the S family.

I'm not sure it need be pointed out that there is all sorts of activity on the internet from which the active party has nothing to "gain." Your post above is consistent with such activity in my opinion. It contains nothing to substantiate the supposed sighting, which you are welcome to supply at any time.

I should add that my suspicions of HT's knowledge have grown slightly with some recent posts on this site. But I think the best lead on these matters is the S family. And I read their recent statements to point at JR first, and HT perhaps not at all.

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Do you have any specific locations or areas that you think JR might have hidden the body that you would care to help me search this weekend? (other than the landfill)

Carmen101 said:

...<snipped>The original report about a "friend of the boyfriend" punching CR was from a "witness." I think that "witness" was a friend of ZO's (AB? HT?) and the statement was made to mask the true reason for the fight. (anger at CR for letting LS talking loudly at the bar about what she had been taking that evening).

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But JW's friends were the first to insist the fight happened, after it was first reported - then denied - in the media. And the rumors that the altercation had to do with protecting Lauren from CR also came from people who identified themselves as JW's friends.

There may be more to the story, but what they said seems plausible to me: Concerned/protective/ angry/ drunk (or all of the above) friends of JW see Lauren out with another guy, messed up and possibly being taken advantage of. They confront them at Lauren's, trying to prevent them from going home together.

Vs. the ZO/ drug theory:

- Why would ZO be angry with CR for "letting Lauren talk" about drugs?
- And if that was behind the fight, why would JW's friends jump in and cover for ZO?

Something that maybe LE is already aware of and acting on and perhaps LS's family might soon find prudent is 'radio silence' from LE and the LS family (for a brief period) regarding this case.

One way to proceed would be to do the mass-flyering on the first day of classes in Bloomington--to inject the topic into the collective mind of the university community, like a catalyst injected into a petri dish to cause/accelerate a reaction.

And then...nothing. Nothing from LE, nothing from the family, for at least a few weeks, more likely a month or more. You want 2 things:

1) LS on everyone's mind (which blanketing the campus with flyers next week should achieve);

2) Various POI to relax and drop their guard. (which going silent for a few weeks could achieve, esp since the family's been relatively active/vocal up til now).

disclaimer: the above assumes that at this point LE and the family presume this is no longer a missing person's case but in fact a murder/wrongful death investigation.

And then, like a duck floating on a pond, you work relentlessly beneath the surface, on 2 fronts:

1) Unless they have information clearing JR, LE/LS's family should pursue JR as their primary POI and attempt to either clear or implicate him. That means investigators (likely private investigators hired by LS's family) working the JR angle in Michigan.

2) Watch/observe the social dynamics of the returning-to-Bloomingont POI's and their friends. To some extent, this can be done via social media/the internet. But, even better, it seems likely/possible that LS's family could recruit individuals loyal to LS to be their eyes/ears on campus and around Bloomington over the next few months. Not even explicitly "deputize" them (so to speak), as that might alter their behavior and tip off those they are trying to observe. But rather cultivate relationships with them with the understanding they are keeping their eyes/ears open for anything LS related and reporting it back to the family.

I think if they did the above, they'd obtain enough information to either exclude or support this or that theory of the case; and then at that point, the investigation kicks into high gear with a defined target with regard to which everyone's confident is the correct target.

Jupiter812 said:

Regarding HT and AB as FB friends. If HT has her privacy settings adjusted so that "Everyone" cannot search her, this would prevent her photo from displaying in AB's friends list, would it not?

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No, you can be hidden in the search function but still be visible on friends lists.

Carmen101 said:

Tr., I think what you saw at the state fair Saturday night could be important information for LE to have. I urge you to contact LE. And thanks again for your post.

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You're welcome. Here's the details of the sighting that I found most interesting.

They walked in on the last five minutes of the 9:00pm performance of a comedy circus act that the fair has sponsored for the last few years.
When they came in the side entrance of the tent they were standing about 12 feet from me. Most people were seated and the bleachers were full but I was standing for the show with others.
They quickly scanned the crowd looking right past me and they caught me staring at them. Ht looked away and I looked away and then she turned and stared in my direction for a moment while I watched the performers.
I was wondering if she recognized me from the early searchers that met at SmallWood or the later searchers at the search center. I had seen her (but not talked to her) at SmallWood but not the center.

She became excited kinda child like during the closing act of the show and wanted to get closer to the stage. She tugged on AB to try and get him to come with her but he refused and just kind of smiled shyly and stood his ground. She left him there and darted for the stage taking up a kneeling position in the front row with some little kids. As she made this maneuver AB reacted with surprise and shouted her name twice "H**** !!, H****!! and motioned for her to come back.
I don't think he realized just how loudly his voice carried but he could actually be heard over the performers to anyone on that side of the tent. Well this didn't sit well with HT at all and here's what she did.

When he shouted her name the second time she turned and looked at me square in the eyes. Then she stood straight up turned and looked at AB with a look that read "you're about to be bitten" and took two steps toward him. He immediately turned his back to her and stepped toward the exit when HT said "Hey !, *advertiser censored**** B****!" (called him by full name) then began "hissing" at him something to the effect of "why the *advertiser censored** did you...".

He looked stunned for a moment as she continued to talk to him. She turned her face away from me and nodded her head in my direction as she spoke. Then AB turned and looked directly at me and she grabbed his arm and led him from the tent.

I think she recognized me from a search party or maybe was just noticing my stares but whatever it was she was severely po'd that he said her name out loud.
In that instance she seemed very unlike the HT we saw interviewing for the cameras.

Carmen101 said:

Tr., I think what you saw at the state fair Saturday night could be important information for LE to have. I urge you to contact LE. And thanks again for your post.

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...as they walked away from the tent he put his arm around her waist and she immediately moved away and walked beside him at arms length..thought that was peculiar.

Does anybody else find Tr.'s account extremely interesting? Based on what she told us, my guess is HT didn't recognize Tr. but rather noticed that Tr. recognized her. And then when AB yelled her name, it was cemented that she had been "outed".

I'm not pointing fingers or suggesting anything at all, but I find it peculiar that someone as comfortable in front of the camera as HT would be so upset about being spotted and recognized. Its sort of inconsistent.

wisco23 said:

Does anybody else find Tr.'s account extremely interesting? Based on what she told us, my guess is HT didn't recognize Tr. but rather noticed that Tr. recognized her. And then when AB yelled her name, it was cemented that she had been "outed".

I'm not pointing fingers or suggesting anything at all, but I find it peculiar that someone as comfortable in front of the camera as HT would be so upset about being spotted and recognized. Its sort of inconsistent.

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I always thought she seemed kind of awkward in front of the camera, but that's not the point.

There is no inconsistency and I highly doubt she is upset about being spotted and recognized in and of itself.

Since we last heard from HT, her accounts have been questioned and she has been accused of knowing more than she lets on. My guess is she bit off more than she could chew (the comment about Lauren taking it "too far this time", for example) and wants to keep a low profile.

Furthermore, the fact that she was recognized in the company of AB is probably what she was most upset about. I wouldn't be surprised if they both know a great deal about what happened to Lauren - perhaps not specifically where she is, but I wouldn't put it past either of them to have a pretty good idea of what happened - and have found comfort in each other being that there are few other people with whom either of them can speak freely regarding the events of June 3rd.

Clearly being spotted together is an indication of companionship that has been largely undocumented. Keeping this friendship under wraps is a pretty good explanation for their lack of Facebook friendship.

I'm not surprised one bit.

luna80 said:

The quotes around "party" was an allusion the the alleged drug use at JR's. Nonetheless my assumption could easily be wrong.

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Yes, I'm aware, and believe your assumption is wrong

SUNchips said:

The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all. JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.

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As far as I am concerned, I have yet to see any (more) reliable report about who confronted CR and who punched him. Can you supply one?