5 Q. As you lived in Boulder and your family sent or
6 picked up the kids to and from school, did you develop a
7 social network in Boulder?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Who became your friends?
10 MR. CRAVER: At what time? 1991?
11 MR. HILL: 1991 through today.
12 A. Well --
13 MR. CRAVER: I've got to object. It's
14 over-broad. But you can answer it, John, to the extent
15 you're able.
16 Q. I'm looking for, you know, as best you can, a
17 comprehensive list of your friend and associates.
18 A. Friends -- they typically revolved around
19 children. John and Barbara Fernie, Fleet and Priscilla
20 White, Larry and Pinky Barber. I think those are probably
21 our three --
22 Q. The top of the list?
23 A. Yeah.
24 Q. How about any others that you would consider to
25 have been social acquaintances on a friendly basis?
Page 39
1 A. There were lots of people that would fall in
2 that category by the end of five years.
3 Q. I know it's daunting, but as best you can, if we
4 can get a list of as many of those as you recall today, it
5 would be very helpful, please.
6 MR. CRAVER: Social acquaintances on a friendly
7 basis?
8 MR. HILL: Right.
9 MR. CRAVER: People that you knew through the
10 church, activities through the church, things of that
11 nature, through work?
12 Q. Who would be invited to your house for dinner,
13 for example?
14 A. Well, our neighbors across the street, Betty and
15 Joe Barnhill. We had Betsy -- I can't think of their last
16 names. Roxy and Stewart Walker. We knew lots of people,
17 but then that's kind of the people we socialized with.
18 Q. Is that pretty much the complete list of people
19 that you would want to spend time with?
20 A. I don't know if it's a complete list. It's all
21 that comes to mind. Penny and Dr. Buff.
22 Q. If more names do come to mind between now and
23 when you review the transcript, if you don't mind just
24 inking that in so we have the best, most complete list we
25 can get, I would appreciate that.
Page 40
1 And the court reporter might leave a couple
2 blank lines to accommodate or remind you that we'd like to
3 do that, if you don't --
4 A. Yeah.
5 ( )
6 MR. GRAY: Is this the list of people that have
7 been to dinner at his house, a list of close friends, or a
8 list of -- I just want to make sure we understand what
9 you're asking him to make a list of, please?
10 MR. HILL: People Mr. Ramsey considers to be
11 social friends, including especially close friends and
12 people that the Ramseys invited to dine in their home.
13 THE WITNESS: We had, for example, a church
14 dinner at our house. There were 80 people there and I
15 didn't know --
16 Q. I'm not too worried about that. If there were
17 members of that group that came again, for example,
18 individually, I would be interested in having those
19 indicated. Does that help?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. I understand a lot of people came to your house.
22 For example, from what I've read, you maintained open
23 houses from time to time?
24 A. We did an open house to benefit the historical
25 society one year.
Page 41
1 Q. Did you maintain a guest book at the house?
2 A. We didn't. I don't know --
3 Q. If the historical society did?
4 A. Yeah, if they did. And they sold tickets to go
5 through several houses at Christmas time.
6 Q. Actually, you occasionally also entertained at
7 your home, if I remember correctly?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Prior to the unfortunate tragedy, you
10 entertained at your home; is that correct?
11 A. Uh-huh.
12 MR. CRAVER: What do you mean by "prior"? You
13 mean during the years prior?
14 MR. HILL: During the month prior.
15 MR. CRAVER: Okay.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. I have information that you hosed a party on
18 December 23; is that correct?
19 A. That's correct.
20 Q. Who did you invite to that party?
21 A. They were a group of friends and their children.
22 Certainly some of the people I've mentioned were there.
23 Priscilla White's parents were there. Some guests they
24 had, who we didn't know, were there. There might have
25 been others. That's all I can remember.
Page 42
1 Q. Did you send out invitations?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Or --
4 A. I don't think so. They were probably -- I don't
5 know for a fact, but I believe Patsy called and invited
6 people.
7 Q. So she would know who was invited?
8 A. Perhaps.
9 Q. I don't know, for example, if there was
10 designated seating?
11 A. It wasn't a dinner. It was just a
12 family/children's get-together.
13 Q. Were gifts exchanged?
14 A. Patsy had little gifts for each of the children
15 and at least some of the adults, just token gifts.
16 Q. So somewhere we could expect that there is a
17 record of, for example, how many people attended the party
18 and who was there?
19 A. There wouldn't be a record.
20 Q. Someone would remember? Who is the best person
21 that would remember?
22 A. I think we've gone through that, hadn't we -- I
23 don't know -- for the police, but --
24 Q. I don't know anything -- I haven't been a part
25 of that or privy to it, so that's why I'm asking you.
Page 43
1 A. I mean, the best way we would have to remember
2 is to just sit down and try to remember. I think we've
3 done that, but I don't remember what we came up with.
4 Q. There may be --
5 A. The Barnhills were there, I remember that.
6 Q. As best you can insert then a complete list of
7 people who were at the party in the deposition transcript
8 as you review it, I would ask you to do that.
9 A. All right.
10 Q. Did your circle of friends include any public
11 officials in Boulder, County or Boulder City government?
12 A. No.
13 Q. Did your circle of friends include any
14 journalists?
15 A. I don't believe so, no.
16 Q. The time period that I'm inquiring about are,
17 let's say, from '94 to 1996, just to narrow it down a
18 little bit. Did your circle of friends include any law
19 enforcement officers?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Any lawyers?
22 A. Not our close circle of friends, no, that I can
23 recall. I don't think any lawyers.
24 Q. What's the first tier where a lawyer turns up?
25 A. Well, we knew people -- Noel Phillips was a
Page 44
1 lawyer, became a lawyer. That's the only one I can think
2 of that I knew.
3 Q. Were your friends the same as your wife's
4 friends?
5 A. Yeah, basically.
6 Q. Completely?
7 A. Well, within the people that we socialized with,
8 yeah. Pretty much, it was couples and family activity.
9 Q. Did either of you enjoy any degree of separate
10 social environment or milieu?
11 A. I mean, I had business entertaining that we
12 would do from time to time, which Patsy -- I never drug
13 her along, not particularly, that I can remember.
14 Q. Some couples, you know, share every friend in
15 common and others will have, you know, separate friends
16 interested in different things. I wouldn't expect you to
17 be a member of a sewing circle, for example. I don't know
18 if your wife was either.
19 What I'm asking is if -- I realize you don't
20 know who she would consider -- well, I'm asking you, do
21 you know whom she would consider to be in her close circle
22 of friends?
23 A. I think it would be the people we socialized
24 with as couples, Pinky Barber, Barbara Fernie, Priscilla
25 White, Roxy Walker.
Page 45
1 Q. Judith Phillips, would you consider her to be a
2 close friend?
3 A. No.
4 Q. I'm not asking currently, but previously.
5 A. No.
16 A. Not -- we did for a while, only because we lived
17 with some people.
18 Q. Who were those people?
19 A. Susan and Glenn Stine.
20 Q. Should I add them to your list of close friends?
21 A. They were not close friends, believe it or not.
22 They were friends, but we didn't socialize a lot with
23 them.
24 Q. Can you help me complete a list of people who
25 would be on the same level of relationship as the Stines
Page 51
1 were to your family?
2 MR. CRAVER: At what time, Lee?
3 MR. LEE: Beginning in 1994 to date.
4 A. I can't think of the names.
10 Q. Thank you. When did you live with the Stines?
11 A. Early 1997, probably until June, July I think.
12 Q. Where do they live?
13 A. They lived at the time on 10th I think, 10th
14 Street.
15 Q. Where do they live now?
16 A. They live in Atlanta.
17 Q. Do you continue a relationship with them?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What do they do?
20 A. What do they do?
21 Q. Yes, sir.
22 MR. CRAVER: Mr. or Mrs.?
23 MR. HILL: Both.
24 A. Glenn Stine now works with me. He joined our
25 company in August of this year, and Susan takes care of
Page 52
1 her son.
2 Q. How old is their son?
3 A. He's Burke's age. He's 11.
4 Q. When did you first meet the Stines?
5 A. Gosh, I don't know. It would have been when we
6 lived in Boulder. I don't remember when we first met
7 them.
8 Q. Were they also at your Christmas party in 1996?
9 A. Gosh, I don't remember. Possibly, but I don't
1