Are the Ramseys involved or not?

I don't recall ever reading that Patsy denied that the pineapple in the bowl on the table was fresh pineapple. But she certainly did deny that she is the one who put the bowl on the table.

JonBenet wasn't tall enough to have reached the bowl inside the fridge. Besides Patsy's, Burke's fingerprints were the only others found on the bowl. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that Burke took the pineapple out of the fridge that night for JonBenet.

imo

Edited to add... Had the Rs known that Burke gave JonBenet pineapple that night, they wouldn't have locked themselves into the story that JonBenet was asleep when they returned home from the Whites' and was carried to her bed.

imo

True, Patsy & Burke's prints were on the bowl (interesting that the transcripts don't mention Burke).

Now, if the "intruder" thought enough about wiping the prints of the flashlight battery -- why not the bowl?

Just answered my own question - it didn't have anything to do with the crime (unbeknownst at that time).

TLynn, I agree. When John and Patsy devised their "JonBenet was asleep" story, they didn't realize that Burke had given her pineapple that night. John or Patsy wiped the flashlight down (even the batteries), but darn! neither of them noticed the bowl of pineapple on the table.

imo

WHY WOULD AN INTRUDER FEEL THE NEED TO WIPE PRINTS FROM THE RAMSEY's FLASHLIGHT BATTERIES???

JOHN TOLD LE THAT JONBENET WOULD SCREAM BLOODY MURDER IF AN INTRUDER TRIED TO FEED HER PINEAPPLE...IF SHE OPENED HER MOUTH SHE WOULD SCREAM!

Good question, Toltec. The thing is, the intruder's prints wouldn't be on the batteries in the first place unless he had put new batteries into the flashlight...and if he did, how did he know where to find new batteries in the Rs' house?

If he did change the batteries, it sure would have been a lot simpler for him to have just taken the flashlight with him when he left than for him to wipe it and the batteries down.

imo

That's why the intruder theory doesn't make sense.

When you try to develop a theory, the details are like a square peg shoved in to a round hole.

And - the devil is in the details.

Smit, the leader of the intruder theory, has too many holes he can't plug.

Ramsey(s) would have motive to wipe down the batteries and overlook the pineapple - especially if JonBenet innocently ate the pineapple before the onset of the crime took place.

It makes more sense that the pineapple was eaten before leaving for the Whites,IMO.
The pineapple was not in her stomach, which is where I would expect it to be if she ate it within a few hours of being murdered. I have always wondered how this fit into the "ramseys dunnit" scenario. What reason would they have to lie? If they fed her pineapple,put her to bed, and she was murdered by them or anyone else just what would they gain by denying the pineapple? Is the suggestion this...she was fed pineapple and a Ramsey tortured her for three to five hours before killing her?
It,again JMO, seems reasonable that she reached in the fridge before leaving for the Whites and grabbed a slice off of that ham (cooked in the Barnhill's oven) from the party the night of the first 911 call. Isn't it a coincidence that a child was murdered in a home that had a mistaken 911 call just a few days earlier!

sissi said:

What reason would they have to lie?

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Mmmmmm, let's see now......Oh ya! One is guilty of murder and the other guilty of obstruction of justice!

sissi said:

Isn't it a coincidence that a child was murdered in a home that had a mistaken 911 call just a few days earlier!

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No, that's a red flag not a coincidence. Patsy likely made that call as an aborted cry for help.

Don't want to get into this debate again --

BUT, it is scientifically impossible that JonBenet ate the pineapple before leaving for the Whites. The food from the White's was further along in the digestive tract.

Also, Patsy claims not to know about the pineapple - or JonBenet eating it from that bowl with the spoon that is too big.

TLynn said:

Don't want to get into this debate again --

BUT, it is scientifically impossible that JonBenet ate the pineapple before leaving for the Whites. The food from the White's was further along in the digestive tract.

Also, Patsy claims not to know about the pineapple - or JonBenet eating it from that bowl with the spoon that is too big.

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I've been told that food digestion rates differ and that slower digested food can be "overtaken" by faster digested food. I'm not a biologist and I don't claim to understand this or necessarily even believe it but I'm not qualified to dispute it!

There doesn't actually seem to be any official confirmation that she did eat at the Whites either. Certainly Priscilla put out the plate of crab for her, but did anyone actually see her eating it?

I'm inclined to think that if she DIDN'T eat anything at the Whites and if she DID eat the pineapple before going to the Whites, then she must have died VERY soon after arriving home that night.

It is the only thing that makes any sense. You would not cover up that crime to protect a spouse, but you would do anything to protect your remaining child esp. if it was an accident. Anyone have any evidence that they would like to prove me wrong with? Let me have it lol!!!:woohoo: :croc:

PS It could have been burke that got the pineapple for JBR. JBR may have taken her flashlight to Bruke room as she had done alot and instead of going to bed maybe she was hungry and her and brother went downstairs to get some food. Maybe they were goofy off and burke hit her in the head with the flashlight that they brought with them. Got scared and pan. went from there.

Jayelles said:

I've been told that food digestion rates differ and that slower digested food can be "overtaken" by faster digested food. I'm not a biologist and I don't claim to understand this or necessarily even believe it but I'm not qualified to dispute it!

There doesn't actually seem to be any official confirmation that she did eat at the Whites either. Certainly Priscilla put out the plate of crab for her, but did anyone actually see her eating it?

I'm inclined to think that if she DIDN'T eat anything at the Whites and if she DID eat the pineapple before going to the Whites, then she must have died VERY soon after arriving home that night.

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JonBenet's intestines were likely about 15 feet in length and consisted of around 10 feet of small intestine (beginning at the stomach) and 5 feet of large intestine (ending at the rectum).

The pineapple was at the beginning of the small intestine. It would have taken about 1 1/2 to 2 hours for the digestive system to have advanced the pineapple from the stomach to that point in the small intestine. There was nothing in the stomach. Therefore, the pineapple was absolutely the last thing that JonBenet ate.

Both JonBenet and Burke loved seafood, so it's unreasonable to think that she didn't eat cracked crab at the White's. What was likely the cracked crab dinner was in the large intestine and would have taken about 5 or 6 hours for the digestive system to advance it to that point. JonBenet ate the cracked crab at about 7 P.M. at the White's.

Thus, it appears JonBenet ate the pineapple around 11:30 P.M. on the 25th and probably died about 1:00 or 1:30 A.M. on the 26th. This timeline is supported by the full rigor the body was in when found at 1:05 P.M. on the 26th. (Bodies are in full rigor about 12 hours after death.)

JMO

BlueCrab said:

JonBenet's intestines were likely about 15 feet in length and consisted of around 10 feet of small intestine (beginning at the stomach) and 5 feet of large intestine (ending at the rectum).

The pineapple was at the beginning of the small intestine. It would have taken about 1 1/2 to 2 hours for the digestive system to have advanced the pineapple from the stomach to that point in the small intestine. There was nothing in the stomach. Therefore, the pineapple was absolutely the last thing that JonBenet ate.

Both JonBenet and Burke loved seafood, so it's unreasonable to think that she didn't eat cracked crab at the White's. What was likely the cracked crab dinner was in the large intestine and would have taken about 5 or 6 hours for the digestive system to advance it to that point. JonBenet ate the cracked crab at about 7 P.M. at the White's.

Thus, it appears JonBenet ate the pineapple around 11:30 P.M. on the 25th and probably died about 1:00 or 1:30 A.M. on the 26th. This timeline is supported by the full rigor the body was in when found at 1:05 P.M. on the 26th. (Bodies are in full rigor about 12 hours after death.)

JMO

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Wrong again BC.

You can't make the conclusion that JB ate crab.

"As I pointed out in the description of proper food combining, food needs to remain in the stomach approximately three hours. There is one exception: fruit. Fruit is the only food on earth that requires no digestion in the stomach. It contains it's own digestive enzymes, and, when ripe, is vertually predigested, requiring only about twenty to thirty minutes in the stomach before passing on to the intestines.

That's from Fit For Life by Harvey and Marilyn Diamond, a book about proper food combining. It goes on to say;

"If fruit is forced to remain in the stomach with other longer-digesting foods, it quickly ferments and interferes with the digestion of the other foods in the stomach."

Patsy could have gotten JB up 'round 'bout midnight fed her pineapple, done her in at 1 and the fruit could have been in the small intestine. Btw, five feet for large intestines in adults not children.

BrotherMoon said:

Patsy could have gotten JB up 'round 'bout midnight fed her pineapple, done her in at 1 and the fruit could have been in the small intestine. Btw, five feet for large intestines in adults not children.

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Patsy would'nt have used a big ol spoon in a bowl that she bought for Sausa and Dips, as written in "Police Files". In that reasoning , Patsy didn't feed JB any Pineapple. Now there was only 2 other humans in the house unless, someone that JB knew or someone who had been stalking her walked in thru the Butlers Pantry door which was found open by BPD.

It appears alot of folks knew JB, pageant kiddies and parents,riding in parades as all sorts of people watched. John the wealthy businessman . Patsy the wonder Mom and social butterfly. Burkes friends from school and sports, such as baseball(indeed a baseball bat was found out side the home with blonde hair on it...)PMPT Basketball PMPT(of course a basketball wouldn't make a 8 inch crack and hole in her skull).

In the Republic of Boulder all makes and kinds of folks live and Jog, smoke pot,and read in the park, you have the big campus of Colorada just a few blocks away. Indeed you could hear the band playing from John and Patsy's bedroom as stated in PMPT.

John Andrew had buddies in and out one even slept in JB's room.

The 911 call the night of the Christmas Party is most curious and could figure in the murder.

The weird happenings in Charlevoix could also add to the punch --like the person who slept in the house with the small bag and cowboy boots. Her riding her bike all fancied up in the parade. Any pervert could have figured if he could get in the Charlevoix house and spend the night surely he could travel to Boulder and walk right in -- No climbing thru the window.

Although, this is all speculation, the fact remains in my personal opinion Patsy wrote the RN. Maybe she found JB and just didn't know how to explain the death and, wrote the note then went to bed and let John and the Fleetster find JB hours later after she was already stiff and decaying with the smell of death.

There is just to many combinations to figure one theory... YaKnow?

Tressa

TressaRing28 said:

There is just to many combinations to figure one theory... YaKnow?

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Fortunately the number of combinations can be reduced by connecting the two main pieces of evidence; the condition of the body and the note, with the strange content of DOI and Patsy's behavior after the body was brought up; pleas for resurrection and chanting Psalms with her sister with arms raised.

The ransom note is a well formed work of fantasy literature. That theme connects Patsy to the note and to the condition of the body. Much of The Bible is about personal revelation and dialogues with a super natural being, i.e. dream imagery and psychosis. DOI is the same way, ditto Patsy's behavior, ditto the condition of the body.

BrotherMoon said:

Fortunately the number of combinations can be reduced by connecting the two main pieces of evidence; the condition of the body and the note, with the strange content of DOI and Patsy's behavior after the body was brought up; pleas for resurrection and chanting Psalms with her sister with arms raised.

The ransom note is a well formed work of fantasy literature. That theme connects Patsy to the note and to the condition of the body. Much of The Bible is about personal revelation and dialogues with a super natural being, i.e. dream imagery and psychosis. DOI is the same way, ditto Patsy's behavior, ditto the condition of the body.

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Brother- that is the only thing you have said that has made any sense!

twizzler333 said:

Brother- that is the only thing you have said that has made any sense!

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Really, you should qualify that with a "to me" at the end of the sentence. Unless you presume to speak for everyone.

Since I posted the comment, I assumed it was understood to be my opinion. :waitasec:

The rest of the evidence came from within the house, no sign of break in, no evidence of an intruder (meaningless DNA doesn't count)...I get tired just thinking about it all. So, I'm goin' to bed.

I was in high school when this case came out so I will admitt that I DO NOT know all of the facts in this case, or even 1/2 of them, but I did watch on Court Tv Lou Smitt showing why he felt the Ramsey's were not involved in her murder. To me it appears that there was an intruder who either came in or left from the basement window.

Did she not also have stun gun marks on her body?

It appeared from the guest bedroom that someone may have come out from underneath bed?