Deceased/Not Found Canada - Lyle, 78, & Marie McCann, 77, Alberta, 5 July 2010 #2 *T. Vader guilty*

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Anyone know if the towbar for the suv required some type of unlocking mechanism, or can anyone just walk up to one of those things and unhook them without encountering some type of security feature? Carbuff, where are you?
 
Hazel said:
... The SUV was found east of where the RV was found. How did the perp(s) leave the area after hiding the SUV? I sure hope the area where the SUV was found holds the answer, and that the SUV itself contains all the evidence needed that will point towards the perp(s).
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<snip>

Good question Hazel. It's one thing to ditch the SUV down by Carrot Creek and walk out of that grove of trees to the road, but he ended up in Mackay somehow, and I doubt he/they walked that distance.

If TV is in fact involved ...

When TV was spotted in Peers, do we know whether he was driving the SUV? If he WAS, then he was in Peers prior to the SUV being found July 16. In which case, i would hazard a guess that somebody like a Kerchief Kenny from Peers picked him up down near Carrot Creek around July 16 and that's how TV ended up further east at Bulmer's place in Mackay by July 18/19.

BTW, that Getson dude from Niton Junction that said he "hadn't kept in touch with Vader but instantly recognized him in a photo released by police Friday" ... well now, Getson was one of TV's most recent additions to his FB friends list. So I say he WAS in touch with TV recently in some respect while TV was still accessing his FB account in order for TV to accept Getson as a FB friend ... OR maybe it was Getson who accepted TV as a friend. Once you're a FB friend, you can chit chat away behind peoples' backs :)

Do we know if the McCanns had a laptop in their RV?

bbm and MOO
 
I've mapped out the timeline using the following chronology (unfortunately I do not know how to post a map):

1. July 3 - McCanns gassed up in St. Albert
2. July 5 - SUV seen with the RV at Minnow Lake campground, Site #8
3. July 5 - RV burned near Minnow Lake Campground 1 hr s/e of Edson
4. July 8 - SUV sighted in PG with 2 peeps (reported by Bjorklands July 12)
5. July 10 - McCanns reported missing
6. July 12?? - TV sighted in Peers a week prior to his arrest *
7. July 16 - SUV found at RR 144 near Carrot Creek about 45 mins from Minnow Lake Campground
8. July 18 - possible sighting of TV in white van, Strathcona Blvd, Calgary
9. July 19 - TV apprehended at Don Bulmer's house in MacKay

* Do we know if the Peers sightings were in the SUV or not? That would establish a timeframe for the Peers sightings.

Dates that may or may not factor in to the above timeline:
July 4 - TV supposedly in Edmonton with Esther/Bobbi-Jo
July 9 - TV supposedly left Edmonton?
July 11 - TV supposedly left Edmonton?

In the above chronology, the Prince George sightings are very plausible. If those sightings were untrue, then we have from July 5 to approx. July 12 between Minnow Lake and Peers that is unaccounted for. IF the Calgary sighting was a genuine independent report (as opposed to misinformation from LE), then we would have to consider which of TV's friends or relatives owns a white van or if a white van was reported stolen **

** ETA: Unlikely the white van was stolen, because it would have to have been reported stolen around the Carrot Creek area further north.
 
..i was camping in that area last weekend. i did see numerous posters all over. in addition to the dense bush , the highway along the mountains has the mountain on one side, and nothing but a guard rail on the other side. just a sheer long long way down on the other.if i was a criminal i would throw something / somebody down over there.
..the elevation in the edson/jasper area is 3000-4000 ft. depending where you are.

..we stopped at the nojack campground for a lunch break coming home, saw the orange tape on the trees, at the time i didn't know it was from LE marking the areas that had been searched a few days earlier.

..drove through edson, niton junction-----tiny little towns, all around all you see is bush. between that and the mountain drop offs i wouldn't have a clue where to look if i were LE.

..what do we think this guy's motive may have been? robbery? $$$'s for meth? since we've seen the video of mr. mcC paying for gas with a credit/debit card, i doubt they had much cash on them, who does these days.

..i think he ( whoever he is ) did something to them,( at a rest stop ?) and then "he" drove the motor home to the dead end at minnow lake---mr.mc.C would never have purposely parked it there like that on his own. ( experienced campers----as they were---go to great lengths to get it situated "just so" ).

...it's such a sad case, this wonderful couple off on a holiday and they never arrived.
 
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)

They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)

Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?

Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
 
LayzeeDayzee said:
I'd have to search for it but I do believe that RCMP had stated in one of the media articles that the investigation of the burned out RV did not show signs of human remains. Does anyone else remember reading this?
Click to expand...

I do remember reading this, however, I also remember reading since that LE are going back over the scene again because at the time they found the RV it wasn't known to be part of a missing persons case?! Anyone else remember that?
 
nickle couch said:
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)

They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)

Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?

Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for this interesting post. I'm not noticing any rocking around in the RV in the video. The RV is definitely backing up about 4 feet. Is it possible that the RV has standard transmission? I do not know anything about RV's at all and would need your expert opinion on this. Mr. McCann was an expert driver and he would likely NOT back up his RV with a vehicle hitched on it. If the RV was standard, wouldn't it roll back a bit, and especially roll back more if an inexperienced driver tried to drive it? Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/user/CTVnewsEdmonton#p/u/3/XuuGkD7kXqU

The more I look at the video, I don't think he is backing up, he is letting it roll, if it's a standard, that's the only way that makes sense, and then it snaps into gear. It's either/or, it's a standard and it rolls back and snaps into gear, or he backs up 4 feet for no reason whatsoever, but the transition from backward to forward is more of a snap, if he was backing up, he would have to back up/stop/put into forward, and that doesn't happen. Also, whoever is driving pulls right out and carves it right. Someone driving a big rig would not cut that much of an angle, I don't think, especially while towing another vehicle. JMO
 
lauriej said:
..i was camping in that area last weekend. i did see numerous posters all over. in addition to the dense bush , the highway along the mountains has the mountain on one side, and nothing but a guard rail on the other side. just a sheer long long way down on the other.if i was a criminal i would throw something / somebody down over there.
..the elevation in the edson/jasper area is 3000-4000 ft. depending where you are.

..we stopped at the nojack campground for a lunch break coming home, saw the orange tape on the trees, at the time i didn't know it was from LE marking the areas that had been searched a few days earlier.

..drove through edson, niton junction-----tiny little towns, all around all you see is bush. between that and the mountain drop offs i wouldn't have a clue where to look if i were LE.

..what do we think this guy's motive may have been? robbery? $$$'s for meth? since we've seen the video of mr. mcC paying for gas with a credit/debit card, i doubt they had much cash on them, who does these days.

..i think he ( whoever he is ) did something to them,( at a rest stop ?) and then "he" drove the motor home to the dead end at minnow lake---mr.mc.C would never have purposely parked it there like that on his own. ( experienced campers----as they were---go to great lengths to get it situated "just so" ).

...it's such a sad case, this wonderful couple off on a holiday and they never arrived.
Click to expand...

Someone said in an interview that TV's family had returned to the area from Texas in the mid-1980s. He would have been quite familiar with the woods in those parts. He'd also worked in the sawmill/logging industry and oilpatch, so chances are he'd be familiar with old logging roads, new oilpatch roads, cutlines, etc. Chances are the folks around there have quads to get them through any areas that are unreachable by car. In other words, prospects of finding the McCanns, if foul play and TV are involved, are slim. Sometimes the courts urge an accused to disclose the location of victims for consideration at sentencing, but no one has been charged. Proving foul play without a body requires considerable circumstantial evidence from LE.

As far as motive, what did the McCanns have in their possession that would have interested a meth addict on the run? The most valuable possessions I'm aware of were their vehicles. There's also a possibility that money wasn't involved, but that other nefarious matters took precedence.
 
nickle couch said:
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)

They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)

Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?

Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
Click to expand...

Your input with information like this is very valuable. I know that the McCanns' disappearance is being followed on forums in the RV community. Some believe an experienced RVer like Mr. McCann would have gone to a busy RV park nearer the Yellowhead, rather than an isolated one like the spot the RV was found.

If I'm following you, this line of thinking could lead back to what was deleted from one website...that someone other than the McCanns could have been in that RV from the moment they set out from St. Albert. IIRC, the phone directory shows the Vader surname in the north end of Edmonton not far from St. Albert. Someone could have been eyeing the McCanns from closer than that before they left.

I'm thinking of the couple from Calgary who vanished this spring, and were found in the woods north of the city. Were they carjacked from their own home? I can't stop thinking there's some kind of common thread.

Wasn't going to say this, but anyways, I can't stop thinking of this, too:

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/....html?id=d902dfe5-f7dd-49cf-8f07-f5552cabd261

Shearing/Ennis revealed many years after the murders that he hadn't told the whole story, and that sexual assault was involved. What else did he forget to mention? This story reminded me of Deliverance.

The Yellowhead highway is a drug corridor. Following another case on WS led me to this story about another drug corridor:

http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=d181cf7d-047d-472a-9d9d-9528a05e755a&sponsor=

Today marks the start of the busiest camping weekend of the year. People will be everywhere. Let's hope someone finds something amiss and reports it.
 
nickle couch said:
From an experienced RVer here-- I read on one of the news articles comments sections about the video tape at the gas station... (I am on a slow connection so cannot watch videos here)

They stated that while Mr McCann was inside paying, there seemed to be some movement within the motorhome and some shaking around of the whole rig. Then... the motorhome *BACKS UP* slowly for a distance and then takes off. Any motorhome driving person with tow bar and car experience knows you should NOT EVER back up! It can destroy the toy bar apparatus, void the warranty and wreaks havoc on your tow car's front end alignment. Only an amateur who is uneducated about tow bars would do that. (I know there are some motorhome folks who do attempt it, but later find out their bars are jammed, bent, or faulty- and don't make the connection that they caused the trouble by backingup with it)

Could TV have entered the rig's door at the station and surprised Mrs. McCann in the rig while he was paying, and subdued her, while waiting for Mr. McCann to come back into the rig? Knocked him out too when he got in or held a gun on him? Or on her? Then TV getting behind the wheel and driving it away himself?

Like I said, I can not view the video myself unless I drive to a wifi access point to download it. But can someone look a bit closer and tell me how far they backed up?
Click to expand...


Yes, I have thought from the beginning that someone may have entered the motorhome at the gas station. Maybe even before at the home.
I can imagine a few things looking at that window while Mr. McCann is gasing up, but i think that it is the mister's and the gas hose shadow.

I'ts a little hard to judge the distance of the mh backing up, but i counted to 10 giving approx. a foot for every count, and came up with 6-9 feet.

I was so hoping and praying that this couple of 58 years of marriage would be found by now. Very sad.
 
matou said:
Thank you so much for this interesting post. I'm not noticing any rocking around in the RV in the video. The RV is definitely backing up about 4 feet.
Click to expand...


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CANADA Canada - Lyle McCann, 78, and Marie McCann, 77; Burned RV found July 5,2010


At about the :27 mark and 1:37 there are two almost imperceptible shakes of the RV. They are so slight that the only way i could see them was to position the point of my cursor on the tip of the black line on the RV, take my hand off the cursor and watch. I didn't post about them at the time because I thought possibly Mrs. McCann being in the RV might have caused the motion. Now I realize that with an RV of that size and weight, it is unlikely that normal movement within the RV would cause any noticeable shake at all, and it is possibly caused by an irregular movement within the RV.
 
matou said:
Is it possible that the RV has standard transmission? I do not know anything about RV's at all and would need your expert opinion on this. Mr. McCann was an expert driver and he would likely NOT back up his RV with a vehicle hitched on it. If the RV was standard, wouldn't it roll back a bit, and especially roll back more if an inexperienced driver tried to drive it?

...
Also, whoever is driving pulls right out and carves it right. Someone driving a big rig would not cut that much of an angle, I don't think, especially while towing another vehicle. JMO
Click to expand...

I used to drive standard transmission but as I got older, found it really bothered my back, because there are points where you basically have both feet off the floor. JMO, but even though Mr. McCann had been a long haul trucker, you would think that in his retirement years he would opt for the luxury of an automatic transmission in an RV.

I agree that the turn is exceptionally tight ... and faster than i would expect for someone just setting out on a leisurely tour.
 
If there was someone parked in front of them wouldn't they have to back up a bit and pull a hard right to get out? Too bad there isn't a better video view of this gas station. I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
 
I wonder whether the Mccann's would have had any medications with them that would have interested an addict, I am thinking benzos or opiates?

The old couple worry me so much, I so hoped for a happy ending
 
Thanks RubyRed. Is it the Petro-Can gas station? It seems different in the video.
 
Thyme said:
I think the movement is either the wind blowing onto the window screen or the poor quality video itself. Also the camera itself might not be that secure.
Click to expand...

I think you are right Thyme. I went back and placed the cursor on the pump instead of on the RV, and it is the video that moves, not just the RV. Am thinking that the door of the gas station opening or closing could shake the camera somewhat.
 
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