FL FL - Michelle Parker, 33, Orlando, 17 Nov 2011 - #22

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Pias said:
Perhaps you can imagine Dale's truck as it is seen parked in his garage, very near the date Michelle goes missing, perhaps look up the specs on a truck just like his, then compare the specs of the Hummer, if that Might better help you reach any conclusions as to how or whether it might fit. A Hummer will fit in a standard size garage. Dale's truck fits in his garage. Now, go do the math. It's kinda like one of those puzzles where you don't quite have all the information, but you can still solve it by deduction. Or, of course, just go read what has already been written. Either way. It probably took me longer to type this, than it would take for you to gather this info and reach an educated conclusion :)
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Sure it makes sense that if the van fits so does the Hummer, assuming a similar size ... but I'm not sure about size here, besides the issue here is not just whether the Hummer fits or not, it probably does (it's a 2-car garage after all), but the relationship of the Hummer with the garage space, example ... can you open the trunk of the Hummer if that garage door is closed? How deep is the garage? What about the inside door? Can you open it with the Hummer inside, and if you can how far can you open it if not all the way? Enough for Ds to carry MP's body through it? And I could go on ... that is why exact measurements are crucial here.
 
Thor said:
Sure it makes sense that if the van fits so does the Hummer, assuming a similar size ... but I'm not sure about size here, besides the issue here is not just whether the Hummer fits or not, it probably does (it's a 2-car garage after all), but the relationship of the Hummer with the garage space, example ... can you open the trunk of the Hummer if that garage door is closed? How deep is the garage? What about the inside door? Can you open it with the Hummer inside, and if you can how far can you open it if not all the way? Enough for Ds to carry MP's body through it? And I could go on ... that is why exact measurements are crucial here.
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Brilliant! And I'm glad you asked and I will answer you with a question. Which would be easier to open in a closed garage?
A. The cover to the bed of the truck
B. The rear door to the Hummer
C. The rear door to the van
D. Why worry about a rear door that is inaccessible, when you have side doors?

I will answer both A and D.
 
Since you did not specify which doors exactly that it was that you were referring to, lets cover them all.

Again, lets apply some logic. Garage entry doors open INTO the house, not out of it (also as shown in the floor plan), and you can see by design, there is no way to impede the area unless you simply quit using the upstairs of your house AND quit doing laundry there. Rather unlikely. Golly, a little logic can go a long way. So now, it is a long standing tradition to carry a bride over the threshold, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here, based on all of these logical deductions as based upon limited information and say that it was possible that a person capable of doing so, could have carried a person through that doorway on that very day. And as for the side door of the vehicles, there seemed to be plenty of room available on at least one side by looking at the photo of Dale standing in the garage by his truck. One door is all you need, if you even need that. Dale does have a covered bed. And lastly, why worry about doors that might be harder to use, when you have a choice of so many?
 
Pias said:
Brilliant! And I'm glad you asked and I will answer you with a question. Which would be easier to open in a closed garage?
A. The cover to the bed of the truck
B. The rear door to the Hummer
C. The rear door to the van
D. Why worry about a rear door that is inaccessible, when you have side doors?


I will answer both A and D.
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Yes agreed, A & D with D being the easiest by far ... but wait ... that assumes D can clear the supporting beams, right? And therefore doesn't it all bring us to the initial question of what is the relationship of the Hummer to the garage? And therefore we need the exact measurements so that that we can really answer your question "which would be easier to open in a closed garage?" Which I would slightly change to "which would be easier to open in THIS garage?". Your turn ...
 
There are many ways to carry a person in your arms, including over your shoulder, under your arm, or across them, dragging, and probably numerous other ways I have failed to mention. I'm thinking, under the circumstances, one really wouldn't care HOW they carried you or got you in there, just that they did.
 
Why are we so fixated on the Hummer as being the vehicle of transport? Why are we not fixated on ALL the possibilities? Anyway, I think I have addressed your questions to most peoples satisfaction, based on what we see in the photos and plain and simple logic. Sorry if it is not to yours.
 
I have a request. When speaking about some particular item, such as "the photo of Dale standing in the garage by his truck" which Pias referenced in post 375, can posters include the photo or a link to it? I don't know what picture this is and it's difficult to follow or make sense of the conversation without it.

TIA.
 
The van may have a sliding side door which would require no room extra room for example. The rear bed cover of the truck opens UP, again, no clearance issues there. That possibly leaves the side doors of only one vehicle in question, the Hummer. When we see Dale standing next to his truck, there appears to be no obstruction to the passenger side of the vehicle. I have a 2 car garage and there is no center beam between the 2 stalls. When I look at the floor plan of the C unit, I see no beam dividing the stalls implied. Before you go putting an obstruction there, I would find out if there is one. In fact, someone went here, or several, have been to that complex and I bet they could tell us if there are any obstructing beams in the 2 car garages. But an email or call will also get you that answer. Just say you are interested in a an available C unit and have some questions. They will be happy to answer!
 
Pias said:
There are many ways to carry a person in your arms, including over your shoulder, under your arm, or across them, dragging, and probably numerous other ways I have failed to mention. I'm thinking, under the circumstances, one really wouldn't care HOW they carried you or got you in there, just that they did.
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Even assuming no greater mass at play while carrying, dragging and son on and all the difficulties inherent in manipulating a body trough an opening within a confined space, both of which are serious factor here IMO, isn't "having gotten it in there" the conclusion not the hypothesis? In other words, could have Dale transported the body to the garage and have enough room to maneuver it inside the Hummer assuming the garage door was closed? To answer that, unless I'm familiar with the garage, I need the measurements of all the actors interacting with one another within the space of the garage in order to determine what is possible or not or what fits and what doesn't.
 
southern_comfort said:
I have a request. When speaking about some particular item, such as "the photo of Dale standing in the garage by his truck" which Pias referenced in post 375, can posters include the photo or a link to it? I don't know what picture this is and it's difficult to follow or make sense of the conversation without it.

TIA.
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http://i39.tinypic.com/2r7n2m9.png
While this photo is somewhat off to the side, it looks as though he is spaciously parked within the confines of his 2 car garage, allowing ample room for his trucks doors. There is also a news broadcast that allows you a glance. I believe it is in a post I shared a page or 2 back, but I may be mistaken as I didn't go watch it again.
 
Pias said:
The van may have a sliding side door which would require no room extra room for example. The rear bed cover of the truck opens UP, again, no clearance issues there. That possibly leaves the side doors of only one vehicle in question, the Hummer. When we see Dale standing next to his truck, there appears to be no obstruction to the passenger side of the vehicle. I have a 2 car garage and there is no center beam between the 2 stalls. When I look at the floor plan of the C unit, I see no beam dividing the stalls implied. Before you go putting an obstruction there, I would find out if there is one. In fact, someone went here, or several, have been to that complex and I bet they could tell us if there are any obstructing beams in the 2 car garages. But an email or call will also get you that answer. Just say you are interested in a an available C unit and have some questions. They will be happy to answer!
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Pias, I only was wondering about the measurements I did not even get into the why until you expressed interest and expressed opinions of your own. :)
 
Also, as to the van and Hummer rear doors. If you backed in, opened the door into the house, it is likely that it would allow you enough room to operate a rear door. Try it in your own garage (I did) or have someone with a similar vehicle do it for you.
 
Pias said:
Also, as to the van and Hummer rear doors. If you backed in, opened the door into the house, it is likely that it would allow you enough room to operate a rear door. Try it in your own garage (I did) or have someone with a similar vehicle do it for you.
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I own several houses and one condo each garage is different, in some I could fit the Hummer in others I couldn't, in some if I put the hummer or similar vehicle in there I could scarcely open the doors in others I can open them then some ..., in any case, that was only something I was wondering ...., I'll look into it whenever. Gotta run ... later.
 
Are decals usually applied on the inside or outside of windows? Anyone know?
 
Thor said:
I was at some point intending to see if I could find info on the measurements of DS's garage and particularly about its relationship to the size of the hummer and the position of the inside door leading to the condo's dwelling but then I got sidetracked by other considerations, I'll see if I can revisit that issue when I can devote some real time to it since it involves a lot of new thinking and research.
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Do you think Dale buried Michelle or left her somewhere in the elements? TIA
 
Thor said:
I own several houses and one condo each garage is different, in some I could fit the Hummer in others I couldn't, in some if I put the hummer or similar vehicle in there I could scarcely open the doors in others I can open them then some ..., in any case, that was only something I was wondering ...., I'll look into it whenever. Gotta run ... later.
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Did you ever own a H3? TIA
 
Thor said:
"But wouldn't you at least admit you discount all of the circumstantial evidence released thus far?"

What circumstantial evidence directly related to this case has been released and by whom? I know only of one which is DS is the last known person to have seen MP alive and that by itself is very little IMO.

"The reason he is the suspect is he lied over and over again IMO and his story doesn't hold water ..."

What lies? What story doesn't hold water? We have no idea what DS has told the investigators, do we? LE has made no statements about DS lying about anything. My guess is DS is saying nothing at this point, and we know that he initially cooperated with LE by answering questions, so may be he made statements that the police think are not true or contradictory and may be not, we don't know one way or the other, do we?

"I know you like healthy debates but I still haven't seen any good theories on someone other than Dale ...""

Either DS did it or someone else did it, that seems pretty much clear IMO. Just because we don't know that someone else did it doesn't mean DS did it, I have to believe you know that as well, it seems a pretty straightforward assumption to me. However as someone else said here before, theories are fine and theorizing is necessary if you're trying to make sense of things, however conclusion may differ and isn't that what a debate is all about? Do you want to hear something different then what you think or not? I do, or I would find the whole thing besides the point from a debate point of view.

"... nor have I seen ANY supporting evidence to clear Dale ..."

I need to assume DS innocent not the other way around, which is different from envisioning several scenarios where DS is the perp for the purpose of testing this or that theory, and ultimately I must have evidence to support a particular conclusion. In other words there is a basic difference for me between theories and conclusions. The standard for the first is whatever you think for the latter is whatever you can prove with evidence.
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I still think Dale did it no matter how many ways we try to dance around the issue. If you do enough research you will find an abundant amount of circumstantial evidence...not sure if there's physical evidence ;) IMO There were plenty of screen captures that don't look so hot for Dale and Papa bear. We shall see won't we. I will buy you a beer at the Tiki Hut if I turn out to be wrong....
 
PJFL said:
Are decals usually applied on the inside or outside of windows? Anyone know?
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Everything that I've researched on this type of full window decal indicates that they are applied to the outside of the window.

HTH
 
I'm a little confused on the garage discussion. Are we trying to determine if someone who parked in the garage would have access to the interior door? Or if they would be able to open the doors of their vehicle inside the garage? :waitasec:
 
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