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  1. #1
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    Thoughts and Logic

    I am of the belief that RDI. However, as I sit here right now I am trying to be openminded and just think about LOGIC... while all of these far fetched ideas roll around, and perhaps one of them is right, I tend to lean a bit more to the logical side of things. Unless a RDI, the only logical thing I can come up with is some sicko meant to kidnap her after silencing her. He then got a bit excited, brought her downstairs. Began sexually abusing her, torturing her through the garotee. Sometime, whether it was when he was bringing her downstairs or when he was down there he banged her head hard. Perhaps he dropped her on the cement. Perhaps he banged her head on a doorway. Its hard for me to believe though that such a bad injury would be caused by an accidental bang.
    Also there are just so many other things that I just can't fit into the IDi theory.

  2. #2
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    Me too armywife. I think the crack in her skull was way too big to have simply been 'knocked' against something. That would mean the intruder was careless and rushing - hardly fits in to not waking anyone up and Lord knows with the length of the RN we know the perp was in no hurry.
    Above is my opinion only

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by armywife210
    I am of the belief that RDI. However, as I sit here right now I am trying to be openminded and just think about LOGIC... while all of these far fetched ideas roll around, and perhaps one of them is right, I tend to lean a bit more to the logical side of things. Unless a RDI, the only logical thing I can come up with is some sicko meant to kidnap her after silencing her. He then got a bit excited, brought her downstairs. Began sexually abusing her, torturing her through the garotee. Sometime, whether it was when he was bringing her downstairs or when he was down there he banged her head hard. Perhaps he dropped her on the cement. Perhaps he banged her head on a doorway. Its hard for me to believe though that such a bad injury would be caused by an accidental bang.
    Also there are just so many other things that I just can't fit into the IDi theory.
    Added to that, the "kidnapper" washed her, redressed her, drew a heart in her palm and wrapped her up in a blanket.

  4. #4
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    And was considerate enough to give her a little late night snack.

  5. #5
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    What a nice guy that wackjob intruder must have been! People with that kind of consideration for others, well I just can't say enough good things about them!
    What do you think is the deal with the heart? To me it looks nothing like a heart in the autopsy photos. Even if you take into account that it could have been rubbed off a bit over time, it still doesn't look like a "perfectly formed heart".

  6. #6
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    Hi Armywife,
    I don't think it looks like a heart either and don't how Patsy thought it was a "perfectly formed heart". I guess it could have rubbed off partially mkaing it look more like a U....

  7. #7
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    Okay, it wasn't some sicko

    pervert---but loving parents who had absolutely no history of violence, perversion, or mistreating their children. Where's the logic in that? God only knows how many senseless crimes are perpetrated against innocent people, because they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or happened to come to the attention of the sicko. Who would have thought some l6 year old goth kid would kill a well-known defense attorney's wife?

    Besides no history whatsoever of the Ramseys having a criminal mind, if you think they're involved then you have to believe one of them would use a garrotte to strangle their daughter to death, while she was clawing at the cord. And they could look into her face while doing it. Then, they knew all the movie lines, and had seen all the movies referenced in the note, and they had a stun gun to add to the torture.

    And then one of them just for kicks clobbered poor JBR in the head with a blunt object with a lot of force.

    After all that, then they were able to site down and write the note, with the lights off in the house---no panic or terror, running around in the dark to cover everything up....and THEN...calmly went back to bed.

    The logic, when you look at the crime scene-the acts against JBR, and the note, is that this was done by someone that wasn't a stranger to violence; to breaking and entering; and possibly an attraction to little girls. They had a stun gun, possibly a bat and rope---a toolkit for a kidnapping--one they had no idea as to how to pull it off.

    As far as the heart on the hand, an article about JR was found that was marked up like a scene from "Ricochet." X's on the other entreprenaur's winners (in red), and a red heart around John Ramsey's face. Ricochet was all about revenge----the two heart's could be connected---another movie theme.

  8. #8
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    The crime scene

    did not show loving care. JBR was simply dragged into the cellar room (arms were outstretched).....and the blanket thrown over her---her face and feet were sticking out. She was left with the garotte around her neck, and a crushed skull, and was stungunned in the face and back. The perp made an attempt to wipe her, leaving navy blue fibers on her. He wasn't that good--he left his DNA and footprint and handwriting on the note.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    did not show loving care. JBR was simply dragged into the cellar room (arms were outstretched).....and the blanket thrown over her---her face and feet were sticking out. She was left with the garotte around her neck, and a crushed skull, and was stungunned in the face and back. The perp made an attempt to wipe her, leaving navy blue fibers on her. He wasn't that good--he left his DNA and footprint and handwriting on the note.
    Mostly all of this is blatent misinformation.
    The blanket was wrapped around her "papoose style", it wasn't just "thrown over her" at all.
    There is absolutely no evidence to support Lou Smit's stun gun theory. The only way that theory could have been proven to have been correct is if JonBenet's body was exhumed.
    We all know it wasn't.
    The DNA was useless, it cannot be relied upon to point to the killer. It was degraded and could not be dated. " This is not a DNA case".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    pervert---but loving parents who had absolutely no history of violence, perversion, or mistreating their children. Where's the logic in that? God only knows how many senseless crimes are perpetrated against innocent people, because they just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or happened to come to the attention of the sicko. Who would have thought some l6 year old goth kid would kill a well-known defense attorney's wife?

    Besides no history whatsoever of the Ramseys having a criminal mind, if you think they're involved then you have to believe one of them would use a garrotte to strangle their daughter to death, while she was clawing at the cord. And they could look into her face while doing it. Then, they knew all the movie lines, and had seen all the movies referenced in the note, and they had a stun gun to add to the torture.
    JBR was the furthest thing from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. How can being in your bed at night be classed as 'wrong place / wrong time?'
    Also, there was an RN - addressed to Mr. Ramsey.
    Wrong place / time suggests chance - the only people taking a chance, IMO were the Ramseys. It worked!

    Also, people snap all the time. It's not all that rare.
    Above is my opinion only


  11. #11
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    No misinformation

    Quote Originally Posted by narlacat
    Mostly all of this is blatent misinformation.
    The blanket was wrapped around her "papoose style", it wasn't just "thrown over her" at all.
    There is absolutely no evidence to support Lou Smit's stun gun theory. The only way that theory could have been proven to have been correct is if JonBenet's body was exhumed.
    We all know it wasn't.
    The DNA was useless, it cannot be relied upon to point to the killer. It was degraded and could not be dated. " This is not a DNA case".
    Doberson did the scientific research of stun gun articles worldwide---he replicated the marks on pigs, and he's gone on record saying he thinks they'e stun gun marks with a high degree of certainty. Doberson should know--he missed stungun marks in the Bogg's case, and when the police found a stun gun in a suspect's trunk, they exhumed the body and did the tests and matched the stun gun marks. It was the only piece of evidence the police had to tie the suspect to the crime and he was convicted.

    The DNA is not useless. It was only last year they found another blood spot that was never tested, and it had most of the markers--it was a good sample, and matched the others, including DNA under JBR's fingernails. You can't discount the DNA---and JBR got a piece of the perp.

  12. #12
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    Wrong place/wrong time..

    Quote Originally Posted by Brefie
    JBR was the furthest thing from being in the wrong place at the wrong time. How can being in your bed at night be classed as 'wrong place / wrong time?'
    Also, there was an RN - addressed to Mr. Ramsey.
    Wrong place / time suggests chance - the only people taking a chance, IMO were the Ramseys. It worked!

    Also, people snap all the time. It's not all that rare.
    I also said someone can happen to come to the attention of the wrong person, which is what happened in the Ramsey case. It could have been the pageants...could have been the Access Article 5 days earlier which was the trigger. Wealthy father and beauty queen daughter are the perfect combination if someone was looking for a kidnap victim....someone that was inspired by "Ransom" and other movies.

    People can snap, but there's usually some history there, or other factors such as alcohol, drugs, financial problems, or history of mental instability.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai
    I also said someone can happen to come to the attention of the wrong person, which is what happened in the Ramsey case. It could have been the pageants...could have been the Access Article 5 days earlier which was the trigger. Wealthy father and beauty queen daughter are the perfect combination if someone was looking for a kidnap victim....someone that was inspired by "Ransom" and other movies.

    People can snap, but there's usually some history there, or other factors such as alcohol, drugs, financial problems, or history of mental instability.
    You're right. Serious problems don't just pop up. Whoever killed JBR is seriously disturbed and IMO can't hide it very well.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=armywife210]..... Its hard for me to believe though that such a bad injury would be caused by an accidental bang.....QUOTE]

    As you imply, we get into problems by explaining the head injury either way. The biggest thud heard in these parts in a long time was awhile back when I suggested the injury could have been caused by the garage door accidentally coming down on JonBenet's head...either by the door "reversing" or someone closing it carelessly after a plan to drive JonBenet somewhere was aborted after seeing a snow dusting on the driveway that would show tire tracks if they drove.

    The significant factor of a garage door fracture would be that it doesn't give an impact injury but one of compression, in which pressure builts over a brief time frame and could pop a child's skull with little apparent external injury. This suggests a scheme that went wrong and what remained are elements of the original plan and a panicked and emotional coverup after the accident.

    "Thoughts and Logic" suggests to me a scientific approach, which is a process of seeking answers with the least "explaining away", i.e., those needing the fewest (or no) excuses as to why any elements of the observations don't fit that answer's theory. This is the basis of Ockham's Razor, which is more of a way of thinking and approach than a final determinant. It is very useful in comparing merits of theories, however.

    For example, consider a theory that the ransom note was an integral part of a family scheme or plan (that went awry) to cover up sex abuse, an accidental or intentional sexual injury by friend or brother, or other problems, including even a scheme by one parent to create an excuse to get out of Boulder. Many possibilities exist that create an explanation and use for the note, and no explaining away is required, since hypothetical family involvement mandates need for the note. Indeed, if the family did it, that in and of itself fully explains the bizarre note...a need to implicate someone else, since an intruder shifts blame to family by NOT leaving a note.

    In contrast to that, a hypothetical intruder creates many conflicts regarding the note. One has to explain away first why the intruder would want to write such a bizarre note, then how he could have known the family info contained, explain the time required since family pen and notepad were used, explain why he would write at length but ignore the "plan" just written when the victim is successfully abducted from her room, explain why he leaves the body thereby thwarting his ransom effort, why he would leave the note with possible evidence while not taking the victim, and, as seen above, make and leave a contrary to interest arrow pointing toward himself. And if "he" really hated the Ramseys as a motive some suggest, he just had to take away the note and let them try to explain their dead daughter. Each justification or explanation of these is explaining away issues about the note in a way to fit a theory and diminishes the theory's validity.

    I realize that the threads of this forum abound with explanatory reasons why some think an intruder did this or that unusual act with respect to the note. But each of these makes that theory less and less likely. A theory that a family scheme involving a note already written (but which also allows for an after the "accident" note) is internally consistent with virtually every element known...and I also think Blue Crab's theory could be consistent with the overall concept or some variation of it.

  15. #15
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    The things that go on in families can be hidden for years and years. Most would think it not appropriate to discuss this with themselves and certainly not outsiders. Please venture over to Crimes in the News from time to time to see how dysfunction plays out in our country everyday. It is not always a class situation i.e. abused wives and/or children, it happens across the board.

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