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Thread: All About Chloroform#2

  1. #1126
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eunice Burns View Post
    Leave it to me to cause confusion where there was no confusion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleBitty35 View Post
    Not to break up the lovefest or anything...but I personally think it might be significant that any of the names KC came up with in her interviews with LE...she came up with on her own. ie...wasn't fed them by some fictious nanny and her equally fictious sister or other SODDI types. That is all I meant by posting what I did.

    I do find it somewhat interesting that her bull.... boss happened to be named Tom Manley (her words not mine...) a name that just happens to be linked to the discovery of chloroform. Oh well.

    Hope KC enjoys her pop tarts. It is quite apparent from all I have seen of her recent appearances that she has.
    i think the name association is totally important. i would love to see the connections.

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    Pages 391-398 of this book are results of a series of experiments where chloroform was injected and inhaled by dogs and monkeys.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=plA...roform&f=false

    With chloroform overdose, death is almost always due to the affect on the respiratory system (with the exception of asphyxiation simultaneously or being injected directly into the chest cavity piercing the heart.) . As the organ dies, the heart can still continue to beat after the blood pressure has fallen and respiratory ceases. If Caylee were still breathing shallow, or her heart continued to beat, this could explain the duct tape and why prosecution allege Caylee was chemically restrained before being taped.

    Of course, it is always more concentrated when injected rather than inhaled. If I recall correctly, the lab report said it was a rather high concentration of chloroform, it was also noted they weren't sure how a 2-3 yr old child could ingest such a quantity.

    "She's safe. She's in God's loving arms. In a lot of ways, I'm content by the fact that she will never have to have her heart broken, or see the constant negativity that our society breeds -nor will she ever be abused or taken advantage of." -Casey Anthony
    "They just want Caylee back, that's all they're worried about right now,"- Casey Anthony

    "I'm so angry and disappointed in our country's legal system, it makes me sick." -Casey Anthony
    "I guess you could say I am living for free off the kindness of strangers." -Casey Anthony
    "(Both of my parents are) not working, still, and yet, have the means to travel all over the country and don't feel that they have to explain where or why. Odd, right? -Casey Anthony

    I am so sorry Caylee.

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  6. #1129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eidetic View Post
    Pages 391-398 of this book are results of a series of experiments where chloroform was injected and inhaled by dogs and monkeys.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=plA...roform&f=false

    With chloroform overdose, death is almost always due to the affect on the respiratory system (with the exception of asphyxiation simultaneously or being injected directly into the chest cavity piercing the heart.) . As the organ dies, the heart can still continue to beat after the blood pressure has fallen and respiratory ceases. If Caylee were still breathing shallow, or her heart continued to beat, this could explain the duct tape and why prosecution allege Caylee was chemically restrained before being taped.

    Of course, it is always more concentrated when injected rather than inhaled. If I recall correctly, the lab report said it was a rather high concentration of chloroform, it was also noted they weren't sure how a 2-3 yr old child could ingest such a quantity.
    -----------------
    In my mind I keep going back to the words I found at the BodyFarm,pertaining to chloroform and the fact there was an unusually high amount in the trunk.They stated it was higher than the body produces in decomp..I am going to take my computer to work tomorrow and have my Boss show me how to copy and paste such an article.I know I read it. As much of a clean freak CA. is,maybe she pilfered a bottle a long time ago and kept it for spot dry cleaning. I worked for a dry cleaner years back and it was commonly used.
    Lord~please give me a break~Love, Noreen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ynotdivein View Post
    This seems a reasonable moment for us all to take a trip down memory lane to revisit this (now locked) thread:

    Stain in Trunk May Show Outline of Child in the fetal position. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    ...for which link I tip my hat most respectfully to JBean (see her post on first page of this thread). Early posts in the older thread discussing fact of no DNA/decomp evident in trunk liner carpet samples. Are these images depression-related only? How could we end up with such obvious stains on back of liner and wheel-well cover without decomp spill in trunk? Halp!

    I am certain we have been over this and I prolly just need a refresher, but why is it impossible that this stain and the chloroform were a result of pool chemicals? I know that the Anthony's pool cleaner did not contain chlorine, that much I remember-But how does the chemical that they did use breakdown? How would it appear under "black light"?
    The ladder stories, the extreme matting of the hair, the cadaver dog hits by the pool...there are a couple of other things that could still point back to the pool, though tying in the placement of three pieces of duct tape over the breathing orafices shortly before or after drowning Caylee is a little tricky.

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    resp. snipped Just Jayla:
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Jayla View Post
    I am certain we have been over this and I prolly just need a refresher, but why is it impossible that this stain and the chloroform were a result of pool chemicals? I know that the Anthony's pool cleaner did not contain chlorine, that much I remember-But how does the chemical that they did use breakdown? How would it appear under "black light"?
    I thought I'd read that the A's choice of pool chemical, Baqu(a)cil, contained copper. Not only does it not contain copper, but is incompatible with copper and iron (known to cause luminol reaction), and some must use a chelation product to remove the minerals from their pool water. It'd be interesting to know how dissolved copper reacts with Baqu(a)cil-treated water if the chelating treatment isn't used.
    Last edited by BondJamesBond; 03-29-2010 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Fixed quote command

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    ...adding re: Baquacil...

    "The Baquacil System is working for the same purpose but this system does not contain any chlorine at all."

    http://wetheadmedia.com/baquacil-vs-chlorine/

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    So...anyone know if Casey watched General Hospital at 3pm on WFTV after George went off to work??

    "Chloraform" searches were March 17 and March 21, 2008.


    GH Wednesday February 27, 2008

    Realizing that he was the Text Message Killer, Elizabeth tried to flee. Diego caught her before she got too far and dragged her into the apartment where he used chloroform and then hand cuffed her in the backseat of his car.
    GH Tuesday March 4, 2008:

    As soon as Nik disappeared out of sight, Diego stepped out from the shadows. He quickly subdued Nadine by drugging her with chloroform and then tied her to the bottom of an elevator shaft.
    GH Wednesday March 5, 2008:

    Spinelli tried out his new detective skills, but he was pretty useless after taking a deep whiff of a chloroform-soaked cloth.
    GH Thursday March 6, 2008:

    Nadine heard him making noise since she was laying on the bottom of the elevator shaft with rope tied around her and duct tape around her mouth.
    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/whoswho/nadine.php

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/recaps/2008/080303.php

    ETA--sometime in February 2008:

    Sam manages to get free of the duct tape that binds her to the chair and tries to escape through the ducts but Diego set it up so it would lead her right back to him. Diego returns to the warehouse, uses duct tape to tape her mouth shut and bind her hands, and takes her to his car at gunpoint where he puts her in the trunk of his car.
    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar[/ame]
    Last edited by AZlawyer; 03-31-2010 at 07:04 PM.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94


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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    So...anyone know if Casey watched General Hospital at 3pm on WFTV after George went off to work??

    "Chloraform" searches were March 17 and March 21, 2008.


    GH Wednesday February 27, 2008



    GH Tuesday March 4, 2008:



    GH Wednesday March 5, 2008:



    GH Thursday March 6, 2008:



    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/whoswho/nadine.php

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/recaps/2008/080303.php

    ETA--sometime in February 2008:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar
    Oh good grief, I remember that storyline ........ that would be something if KC pried herself away from her computer and phone to actually watch the show. Would be interesting to know if she did follow GH. Good catch AZ ......Anyone?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    So...anyone know if Casey watched General Hospital at 3pm on WFTV after George went off to work??

    "Chloraform" searches were March 17 and March 21, 2008.

    GH Wednesday February 27, 2008

    GH Tuesday March 4, 2008:

    GH Wednesday March 5, 2008:

    GH Thursday March 6, 2008:

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/whoswho/nadine.php

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/recaps/2008/080303.php

    ETA--sometime in February 2008:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar
    *snipped for space*

    I took a quick look @ her cell activity during the 3-4PM timeframe just to see if she was in the habit of NOT having extended phone conversations during the show's timeslot.

    In relative terms she wasn't on the phone too much during this period for the 6/1-7/15 dates. Longest conversation she had that was started during that time was 17minutes. I did NOT look @ calls that started before 3PM and ran into the 3-4PM hour.

    Perhaps Amy would be the one to know if Casey was a GH fan. No questioning in that direction so far.

    Interesting new angle, AZ.

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  19. #1136
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    The timing of the cholorform shows fit, wow - good find AZlawyer.

    General Hospital also airs on SOAPnet at 10:00PM ET five days a week (as well as other times such as five shows in a row on a given afternoon, for instance, Sunday I could watch the show beginning at 2PM CT (Monday's show), through 6PM (Friday's show).

    I'm not sure if this is the same schedule that was in place in 2008.
    Last edited by Woe.be.gone; 04-03-2010 at 06:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    The timing of the cholorform shows fit, wow - good find AZlawyer.

    General Hospital also airs on SOAPnet at 10:00PM ET five days a week (as well as other times such as five shows in a row on a given afternoon, for instance, Sunday I could watch the show beginning at 2PM CT (Monday's show), through 6PM (Friday's show).

    I'm not sure if this is the same schedule that was in place in 2008.
    It seems like the kind of show KC would like...DRAMMMMA as she said in one of her FB messages lol. Reading a couple of the "chloroform" scripts online, it struck me that she even talks like a soap opera character.

    BTW during the same time period in the show, someone's son goes missing and, of course, they try to find him themselves instead of calling the police. He was much older though--seemed like late teens from the storyline.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

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  23. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    It seems like the kind of show KC would like...DRAMMMMA as she said in one of her FB messages lol. Reading a couple of the "chloroform" scripts online, it struck me that she even talks like a soap opera character.

    BTW during the same time period in the show, someone's son goes missing and, of course, they try to find him themselves instead of calling the police. He was much older though--seemed like late teens from the storyline.
    Evidence page 2695

    Melich's narrative...

    "Casey Anthony said she'd seen "movies and reports" of missing people getting hurt if the police got involved."

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    So...anyone know if Casey watched General Hospital at 3pm on WFTV after George went off to work??

    "Chloraform" searches were March 17 and March 21, 2008.


    GH Wednesday February 27, 2008



    GH Tuesday March 4, 2008:



    GH Wednesday March 5, 2008:



    GH Thursday March 6, 2008:



    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/whoswho/nadine.php

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/recaps/2008/080303.php

    ETA--sometime in February 2008:



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar
    WTF?? How did you come up with that??

    To the first order, she was free during those times (based on the thin, available Photobucket data).

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    Here's another chloroform reference on a show we think she watched, based on her Google searches: LOST.

    LOST, Thurs., May 1, 2008: Bernard knocks out Jack with chloroform to take out his appendix.

    http://www.tv.com/lost/something-nic...e_header;recap

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

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    How about this one--on CSI, which was supposedly one of KC's favorite shows according to her "Cupid" profile:

    CSI, May 15, 2008: Warrick is found next to Gedda, who is dead. Warrick cannot remember what happened. "A CSI reports they found chloroform in Gedda's blood. Grissom orders Warrick's blood tested because chloroform can cause short term memory loss. But it's too late, it disappears in the blood too quickly."

    http://www.tv.com/csi/for-gedda-1/ep...episode_header
    Last edited by AZlawyer; 04-04-2010 at 10:13 PM.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

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    Supernatural, May 8, 2008:

    http://www.tv.com/supernatural/time-...episode_header

    A jogger is out by a lake when a figure chloroforms him unconscious.

    Dean stabs Benton with a knife and reveals that it's covered with chloroform.

    Dean chloroforms Benton then locks him securely in a refrigerator and the brothers bury him… together.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

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    CSI Miami, March 31, 2008:

    Tripp and Delko scour the rest stop and find evidence in the bathroom of an abduction--the smell of chloroform emanates from the paper towel holder, and Delko discovers blood behind the damaged holder.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

    April 1, 2008:

    When Ryan and Natalia find traces of chloroform on the car, they wonder if there is a connection between Calleigh's kidnapping and Kathleen Newberry's abduction and murder.

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us
    Last edited by AZlawyer; 04-04-2010 at 09:58 PM.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94

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  35. #1144
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    So...anyone know if Casey watched General Hospital at 3pm on WFTV after George went off to work??

    "Chloraform" searches were March 17 and March 21, 2008.


    GH Wednesday February 27, 2008


    Quote:
    Realizing that he was the Text Message Killer, Elizabeth tried to flee. Diego caught her before she got too far and dragged her into the apartment where he used chloroform and then hand cuffed her in the backseat of his car.

    GH Tuesday March 4, 2008:


    Quote:
    As soon as Nik disappeared out of sight, Diego stepped out from the shadows. He quickly subdued Nadine by drugging her with chloroform and then tied her to the bottom of an elevator shaft.

    GH Wednesday March 5, 2008:


    Quote:
    Spinelli tried out his new detective skills, but he was pretty useless after taking a deep whiff of a chloroform-soaked cloth.

    GH Thursday March 6, 2008:


    Quote:
    Nadine heard him making noise since she was laying on the bottom of the elevator shaft with rope tied around her and duct tape around her mouth.

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/whoswho/nadine.php

    http://sun10397.dn.net/gh/recaps/2008/080303.php

    ETA--sometime in February 2008:


    Quote:
    Sam manages to get free of the duct tape that binds her to the chair and tries to escape through the ducts but Diego set it up so it would lead her right back to him. Diego returns to the warehouse, uses duct tape to tape her mouth shut and bind her hands, and takes her to his car at gunpoint where he puts her in the trunk of his car.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diego_Alcazar
    Diego_Alcazar
    Quoting myself--bad form I know.

    p. 13633 of Casey's letters released today: "I wonder what I've missed on General Hospital?"

    p. 13659 of letters: "One of the good things about being the Day PC [?], I get to watch General Hospital (yes, I'm hooked!)"
    Last edited by AZlawyer; 04-06-2010 at 04:31 PM.

    "It would seem to me that June 16, 2008 was the last time that the victim was viewed by her grandparents. It became quite evident that from the OS of the Defense that the 16th was a date of great importance and that a so called time line of activities dealing with CA, LA, GA and ICA on the 16th and what, if any, activities took place on the 15th, 16th and 17th of June on 24 hour cycles would have been, at least, of a minimal requirement of review. I take it at some point you had a computer expert look at that data?" HHJP, 6/21/11
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...139910&page=94


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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    Quoting myself--bad form I know.

    p. 13633 of Casey's letters released today: "I wonder what I've missed on General Hospital?"

    p. 13659 of letters: "One of the good things about being the Day PC [?], I get to watch General Hospital (yes, I'm hooked!)"
    eek is right! This is proof that KC likes watching soaps.
    Since I wrote it down, let me elaborate -

    KC mentions in her letter to Robyn that she hasn't watched TV for a week and then writes -

    p.13633 -"I wonder what I've missed on General Hospital? I can't believe I'm so hooked on stupid day time soaps. During the summers, if I wasn't doing AAU or training camps, I would lay out after breakfast, shower, and hunkerdown in bed for the Young and the Restless and Days of our Lives. It was far more entertaining as a young teen than it is now; but what else is there to watch on our limited station choices in the middle of the day?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    eek is right! This is proof that KC likes watching soaps.
    Since I wrote it down, let me elaborate -

    KC mentions in her letter to Robyn that she hasn't watched TV for a week and then writes -

    p.13633 -"I wonder what I've missed on General Hospital? I can't believe I'm so hooked on stupid day time soaps. During the summers, if I wasn't doing AAU or training camps, I would lay out after breakfast, shower, and hunkerdown in bed for the Young and the Restless and Days of our Lives. It was far more entertaining as a young teen than it is now; but what else is there to watch on our limited station choices in the middle of the day?"
    Someone needs to send this to Dective Yuri.

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  40. #1147
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    Quoting myself--bad form I know.

    p. 13633 of Casey's letters released today: "I wonder what I've missed on General Hospital?"

    p. 13659 of letters: "One of the good things about being the Day PC [?], I get to watch General Hospital (yes, I'm hooked!)"
    As soon as I read that in the KC letters I jumped in to do a search for the word "general" with your hat as the author, just to send some kudos on great sleuthing.

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  42. #1148
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    AZlawyer

    Quote Originally Posted by AZlawyer View Post
    Quoting myself--bad form I know.

    p. 13633 of Casey's letters released today: "I wonder what I've missed on General Hospital?"

    p. 13659 of letters: "One of the good things about being the Day PC [?], I get to watch General Hospital (yes, I'm hooked!)"
    I'm sure you probably will send this info to detectives, but just writing to encourage you to do so (pretty please).
    You are so very diligent, instead of Lawyer you may have missed your calling as a detective!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woe.be.gone View Post
    The timing of the cholorform shows fit, wow - good find AZlawyer.

    General Hospital also airs on SOAPnet at 10:00PM ET five days a week (as well as other times such as five shows in a row on a given afternoon, for instance, Sunday I could watch the show beginning at 2PM CT (Monday's show), through 6PM (Friday's show).

    I'm not sure if this is the same schedule that was in place in 2008.

    The soaps are available online, too. Check out the network websites for ABC, NBC, and CBS. Full episodes. One could have a private soap opera marathon 24/7. No longer do we have to set aside a specific hour to watch our favorite shows as they air. KC could have watched them anytime via computer.

    AZlawyer, that's some good sleuthin'. May I hire you to represent me, just in case? What's your going retainer rate? Eh? You seem to know about getting down to the teeny tiny details, more than some Florida-based, only Hispanic defense attorney who's going to be world-famous because he files frivolous motions and wastes lots and lots of court time and tax payer dollars.
    Last edited by Zoe Bogart; 04-07-2010 at 10:46 PM.
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    OCSO Supplemental Report

    One time while at Casey's house after Casey was released from jail in Aug, Annie asked Casey about what the chloroform in the trunk was all about. Casey said she had cleaning solutions back there.

    I recently read this in the docs. Interesting.

    ...js...
    Blessings to the children of the world~May peace be yours.

    Regardless of warnings the future doesn't scare me at all. Nothings like before. ~Utada Hikaru



    If you lose one you greatly love, take comfort...

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