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  1. #16
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    I, too, have wondered how the hell Dugard was able to teach her daughters any math or science (assuming the girls are both up to grade level in all subjects). Trigonometry, calculus, or geometry? How? She only had a 5th grade education and math is not one of those subjects you simply "get" without rigorous instruction, whether by teacher or book. I believe the last thing Garrido wanted was for Dugard to be educated, to help ensure her enslavement (Even if you want to believe otherwise, the man is a dim bulb and wouldn't know what books to get her). So, how could she know what to teach? Maybe she put her foot down when it came to her daughters' education and he allowed her web access to basic educational sources? I'm guessing we won't find out for a while, if ever.

    Either way, I sure hope that they get a lot of (hopefully, free) help with their education.


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  3. #17
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    @smgthephilus: First, I must say it's outrageously absurd and inflammatory to claim Garrido has any kind of "love," let alone a "special kind," for Dugard. Notice, uh, he refused let her go and he had her living in absolute filth with her own daughters! So, I'm going to pretend you misspoke on that, which is easier to believe since your sentence doesn't make much sense grammatically. Seriously, the only love Garrido has is for torturing and enslaving women and girls.

    Now, if that were true, that Garrido provided educational resources, it wouldn't make him any less of a monster, just someone trying to ensure as much control as possible. He could have easily killed Dugard after raping her as a young girl. Obviously, we know he didn't spare her life out of mercy, but to *extend her misery,* to allow him to play "God." The same underlying desperation to keep Dugard in check would be at work with the girls' education as well.


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  5. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephens View Post
    I, too, have wondered how the hell Dugard was able to teach her daughters any math or science (assuming the girls are both up to grade level in all subjects). Trigonometry, calculus, or geometry? How? She only had a 5th grade education and math is not one of those subjects you simply "get" without rigorous instruction, whether by teacher or book. I believe the last thing Garrido wanted was for Dugard to be educated, to help ensure her enslavement (Even if you want to believe otherwise, the man is a dim bulb and wouldn't know what books to get her). So, how could she know what to teach? Maybe she put her foot down when it came to her daughters' education and he allowed her web access to basic educational sources? I'm guessing we won't find out for a while, if ever.

    Either way, I sure hope that they get a lot of (hopefully, free) help with their education.
    I believe there are posts somewhere that state there were no books purchased under that School name
    he filed for. AND there was not one text book in that hovel.

    HER AUNT said: Jaycee did her best to educate the girls herself despite their extraordinary circumstances. she said: "They are educated and bright. It's clear they've been on the internet... and that Jaycee did a great job with the limited resources she had."
    I do not hear her saying she was able to get them educational books.

    And I do not think they have a web site that teaches these things without books.
    OR at the very least a signed up course that one pays for.

    NOP I do not believe any of this...No way. I do believe she taught them to read and write and very basic math.
    common guys JC does not even know how to use money. She could not have possibly gotten those girls up to speed. But let everyone believe whatever they want.
    Last edited by songline; 10-20-2009 at 11:36 AM.
    Women are Angels.
    And when someone breaks our wings,
    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

    We're flexible like that.


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  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephens View Post
    I, too, have wondered how the hell Dugard was able to teach her daughters any math or science (assuming the girls are both up to grade level in all subjects). Trigonometry, calculus, or geometry? How?
    JC's 15 year old daughter would be essentially in 10 grade now, where many students learn basic HS math (non-algebra). College prep students would be in an Algebra or Geometry class. Science curriculum would be something along the lines of Earth Science, with some advanced students in Biology or Chemistry - and many HS students only take the basics in either.

    Home schooling curriculum is available up to high school. Some even provide advanced training for college-prep (students would have to take skills exams for college qualification). It is not known how much online access they were provided, but given that JC was able to use the computer in the business, it is likely that she had relatively free access to get any info she wanted. Study guides for these courses are also freely available (in fact, they're available even for advanced upper division math and science topics)

    As for textbooks, there are several pictures with boxes of books, including the one with the 'Gardening Made Easy" books scattered about. In the office area are a number of boxes. But textbooks wouldn't be required - only notebooks (and there are several examples of those, too).

    There is also a telling sheet in the picture with the furbees on the game controller. There is a printed sheet partially in the picture. The text is mostly obscured but the tital can be partially read:

    Att...
    College...
    Studi...
    A powerful gift has by...
    name's one that the...
    higher learning believes...

    It looks like something printed from the internet, though I haven't been able to find it in Google - perhaps it is text provided as part of a curriculum of study.

    I think it qualifies as solid evidence that JC was looking into college studies, either for herself or for her daughters.

    EDIT: I'm finding evidence online that this page is connected with UNESCO's Open Training Platform, though I haven't found the exact page yet.

    http://opentraining.unesco-ci.org/cgi-bin/page.cgi?d=1
    Last edited by smgtheophilus; 10-20-2009 at 11:53 AM.


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  9. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smgtheophilus View Post
    JC's 15 year old daughter would be essentially in 10 grade now, where many students learn basic HS math (non-algebra). College prep students would be in an Algebra or Geometry class. Science curriculum would be something along the lines of Earth Science, with some advanced students in Biology or Chemistry - and many HS students only take the basics in either.

    Home schooling curriculum is available up to high school. Some even provide advanced training for college-prep (students would have to take skills exams for college qualification). It is not known how much online access they were provided, but given that JC was able to use the computer in the business, it is likely that she had relatively free access to get any info she wanted. Study guides for these courses are also freely available (in fact, they're available even for advanced upper division math and science topics)

    As for textbooks, there are several pictures with boxes of books, including the one with the 'Gardening Made Easy" books scattered about. In the office area are a number of boxes. But textbooks wouldn't be required - only notebooks (and there are several examples of those, too).

    There is also a telling sheet in the picture with the furbees on the game controller. There is a printed sheet partially in the picture. The text is mostly obscured but the tital can be partially read:

    Att...
    College...
    Studi...
    A powerful gift has by...
    name's one that the...
    higher learning believes...

    It looks like something printed from the internet, though I haven't been able to find it in Google - perhaps it is text provided as part of a curriculum of study.

    I think it qualifies as solid evidence that JC was looking into college studies, either for herself or for her daughters.

    EDIT: I'm finding evidence online that this page is connected with UNESCO's Open Training Platform, though I haven't found the exact page yet.

    http://opentraining.unesco-ci.org/cgi-bin/page.cgi?d=1
    Fantastic post!!! I really feel that it is very closed minded to assume that Jaycee could NOT provide the basics of education to her daughters. In 5th grade she knew all the math basics, which are the fundamentals for learning higher math.

    Even if her daughters skills reached basic math, multiplication and division, or close to pre algebra level that is a lot for her to be commended for. There is a natural curiosity in intelligent or even average intelligence people. Jaycee may have been eager to teach herself math skills to help in the running of the printing business and was then able to pass them on to her daughters. There were orders to be processed, materials to purchase, billing to be done. I can not imagine that pg would stoop to doing such lowly and time consuming tasks. I think he would have shown Jaycee what to do and expected her to then do the work herself.

    I am not saying it is wise to have on rose colored glasses, but lets not be in a hurry to judge or condemn either.


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  11. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    Fantastic post!!! I really feel that it is very closed minded to assume that Jaycee could NOT provide the basics of education to her daughters. In 5th grade she knew all the math basics, which are the fundamentals for learning higher math.

    Even if her daughters skills reached basic math, multiplication and division, or close to pre algebra level that is a lot for her to be commended for. There is a natural curiosity in intelligent or even average intelligence people. Jaycee may have been eager to teach herself math skills to help in the running of the printing business and was then able to pass them on to her daughters. There were orders to be processed, materials to purchase, billing to be done. I can not imagine that pg would stoop to doing such lowly and time consuming tasks. I think he would have shown Jaycee what to do and expected her to then do the work herself.

    I am not saying it is wise to have on rose colored glasses, but lets not be in a hurry to judge or condemn either.
    All the work done in printing is artistic talent, and billing is none other then basic math.
    I do not believe she was able to teach past 5th grade...especially when her own Aunt said she did a great job under those circumstances, I see no books on pictures, or any inference to any books.

    There is a boy in my building who is home schooled....He went to Paris for a year with family (not to school, and he does have very strange parents, Mom is a JW and Dad is catholic; they fight like cats and dogs, and are nasty in public - how good their religion did for them )
    BUT...Because the boy is home schooled he just skipped the year that he was away, WHY I m not sure...
    I am sure his Mom said to me...8th grade is no big deal we are just going to proceed with 9th grade.

    I was on the bus with the kid yesterday and he told me his Mothers brother took the tests for him so that he will be able to proceed. YAP with home schooling it is a very different ball game.

    NOP I am not closed minded at all...but I too have taught, and there are just some fibs I will not
    were my rose glasses for.

    It is however always OK with me for everyone to believe whatever they like.
    Last edited by songline; 10-20-2009 at 08:44 PM.
    Women are Angels.
    And when someone breaks our wings,
    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

    We're flexible like that.


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  13. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    Jaycee may have been eager to teach herself math skills to help in the running of the printing business and was then able to pass them on to her daughters.
    I think this is key to understanding JC's 'escape' (not from captivity, but her ability to convince her captors to give her more liberty in her adult years). PG certainly was too scatter-brained to effectively manage a business with long-term clientele (not to mention his very poor spelling for a printing business), and NG had no business skills, either. His mom could have initially helped due to her real-estate background, but as she got older and more infirm she couldn't keep up.

    So I speculate that JC saw an opportunity, to get computing, graphic and business skills from online classes, to help the business. It's quite possible that she basically gave herself the equivalent of an AA degree online, given the comments many of their customers gave on the quality of the work she produced. In fact, I would say that she would have been HIGHLY motivated to do this.

    If she could do that for herself, then it would have been quite easy for her to do the same for her kids.
    Last edited by smgtheophilus; 10-20-2009 at 12:36 PM.


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  15. #23
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    I hate using solely personal experience, but this one may shed some light.

    I attended kindergarten, first grade, and second grade in a traditional public school. My mom then put me in a small private school that was more concerned with the basics of Scientology than in math or reading. I attended home school for fourth and fifth. This consisted of my mother parking me in front of the TV, leaving a couple of textbooks out and telling me to read something. No formal or traditional education for 3rd, 4th or 5th. I reentered public school in 6th grade, and tested at and above grade level. I was once again removed from the education system completely at the beginning of 7th grade. I tested at grade level when I reentered school in 10th grade but dropped out after one semester, due to being unable to function in the environment. At 20, I went back to get my GED, I passed with 100% in 2 areas, social sciences and science. I barely scraped through the math portion and everything else was about average.
    There were no textbooks available to me above a 6th grade level.
    Is it possible that her kids are at grade level? Yes.
    Is it probable? No.
    Is anything in this case probable? No.
    Make of it what you will.
    Last edited by not_my_kids; 10-20-2009 at 12:38 PM.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.


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  17. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by smgtheophilus View Post
    JC's 15 year old daughter would be essentially in 10 grade now, where many students learn basic HS math (non-algebra). College prep students would be in an Algebra or Geometry class. Science curriculum would be something along the lines of Earth Science, with some advanced students in Biology or Chemistry - and many HS students only take the basics in either.

    Home schooling curriculum is available up to high school. Some even provide advanced training for college-prep (students would have to take skills exams for college qualification). It is not known how much online access they were provided, but given that JC was able to use the computer in the business, it is likely that she had relatively free access to get any info she wanted. Study guides for these courses are also freely available (in fact, they're available even for advanced upper division math and science topics)

    As for textbooks, there are several pictures with boxes of books, including the one with the 'Gardening Made Easy" books scattered about. In the office area are a number of boxes. But textbooks wouldn't be required - only notebooks (and there are several examples of those, too).

    There is also a telling sheet in the picture with the furbees on the game controller. There is a printed sheet partially in the picture. The text is mostly obscured but the tital can be partially read:

    Att...
    College...
    Studi...
    A powerful gift has by...
    name's one that the...
    higher learning believes...

    It looks like something printed from the internet, though I haven't been able to find it in Google - perhaps it is text provided as part of a curriculum of study.

    I think it qualifies as solid evidence that JC was looking into college studies, either for herself or for her daughters.

    EDIT: I'm finding evidence online that this page is connected with UNESCO's Open Training Platform, though I haven't found the exact page yet.

    http://opentraining.unesco-ci.org/cgi-bin/page.cgi?d=1
    And to get a home schooling curriculum you have to register the kid.
    the school he tried to get registered, did not buy any books according to what has been researched.
    Gardening is not a text book I have those kind of books too. and I have cooking books as well.
    Very different from text...

    This is not to say that with time they won't catch up...It is very possible to do that..
    Last edited by songline; 10-20-2009 at 12:43 PM.
    Women are Angels.
    And when someone breaks our wings,
    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

    We're flexible like that.


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  19. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    I hate using solely personal experience, but this one may shed some light.

    I attended kindergarten, first grade, and second grade in a traditional public school. My mom then put me in a small private school that was more concerned with the basics of Scientology than in math or reading. I attended home school for fourth and fifth. This consisted of my mother parking me in front of the TV, leaving a couple of textbooks out and telling me to read something. No formal or traditional education for 3rd, 4th or 5th. I reentered public school in 6th grade, and tested at and above grade level. I was once again removed from the education system completely at the beginning of 7th grade. I tested at grade level when I reentered school in 10th grade but dropped out after one semester, due to being unable to function in the environment. At 20, I went back to get my GED, I passed with 100% in 2 areas, social sciences and science. I barely scraped through the math portion and everything else was about average.
    There were no textbooks available to me above a 6th grade level.
    Is it possible that her kids are at grade level? Yes.
    Is it probable? No.
    Is anything in this case probable? No.
    Make of it what you will.
    GREAT POST

    Yes it is very possible to catch up especially when someone is bright. YOU are very bright.
    Last edited by songline; 10-20-2009 at 12:44 PM.
    Women are Angels.
    And when someone breaks our wings,
    we simply continue to fly... on a broomstick.

    We're flexible like that.


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  21. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by songline View Post
    All the work done in printing is artistic talent, and billing is none other then basic math.
    I do not believe she was able to teach past 5th grade...especially when her own Aunt said she did a great job under those circumstances, I see no books on pictures, or any inference to any books.

    There is a boy in my buildidng who is home schooed....He went to Paris for a year with family (not to school, and he does have very strang parents, Mom is a JW and Dad is catholic; they fight like cats and dogs, and are nasty in public - how good their religion did for them )
    BUT...Because the boy is home schooled he just skipped the year that he was away, WHY I m not sure...
    I am sure his Mom said to me...8th grade is no big deal we are just going to proceed with 9th grade.

    I was on the bus with the kid yesterday and he told me his Mothers brother took the tests for him so that he will be able to proceed. YAP with home schooling it is a very different ball game.

    NOP I am not closed minded at all...but I too have taught, and there are just some fibs I will not
    were my rose glasses for.

    It is however always OK with me for everyone to believe whatever they like.

    I am in no way disagreeing with you either. I also taught in my past. I sold real estate and then became an RN. I HATED math in high school. I felt like I could not understand it or make any sense of it whatsoever. In college I took math classes that allowed me to work at my own pace with an environment set up with tutors to help you learn. Things made a lot more sense and I made it through. There are a LOT of educational materials available online. Maybe math was something she gave the girls the basics in, but its possible that she schooled herself and her daughters at the same time. Probable? Maybe not. Possible? Just look at what else she did with what she had available!


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  23. #27
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    I think you really have to look at the logistics of her situation. I mean, what else was Jaycee able to do all day besides running the business and reading books? There aren't many other options when you're locked in the backyard every single day of your life. She didn't have the opportunities to slack off and find leisure activities like other American teenagers. All she really had for 18 years were her books, her chores, and her thoughts.

    In a situation like that I think it would be pretty easy to fall back on learning and reading about things as your "safety zone." Especially when you're a pretty bright kid to start with. I mean, what else was she going to do? Just sit there and stare at the wall of the tent all day?

    While I think it's a stretch to say that she and her kids are ready for advanced college calculus right off the bat, it's almost guaranteed that they spent more time reading and learning about things than your average American kids. Reading books in the backyard would have been pretty much their life.

    In any case, I hardly think this is the most far fetched hypothesis we've heard about this story.


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  25. #28
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    One of the ways that I taught myself was through regular novels.
    For example, I would read a Stephen King book for the plot (Back when Stephen King wrote plots into his books) and then I would read it a second time, for the descriptions of the people to learn steroetypes and cultural differences, or I'd go back and study the way the he talked about the weather and season changes, to learn about science.
    This may be the same type of thing that Jaycee was doing. Using whatever was available to learn. She then would have been able to teach the girls with that.
    Math is the only thing that is really hard to pick up that way, but I learned fractions from cookbooks, so it is doable. But not higher math. I never would have been able to teach myself from regular books how to do algebra or trig.

    ETA: Sorry about the appearing and disappearing posts, it's double posting and auto posting on me before I hit submit. Bear with me.
    Last edited by not_my_kids; 10-20-2009 at 01:11 PM.
    JMO. Unless there's a link, I can't prove it.


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  27. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by not_my_kids View Post
    One of the ways that I taught myself was through regular novels.
    For example, I would read a Stephen King book for the plot (Back when Stephen King wrote plots into his books) and then I would read it a second time, for the descriptions of the people to learn steroetypes and cultural differences, or I'd go back and study the way the he talked about the weather and season changes, to learn about science.
    This may be the same type of thing that Jaycee was doing. Using whatever was available to learn. She then would have been able to teach the girls with that.
    Math is the only thing that is really hard to pick up that way, but I learned fractions from cookbooks, so it is doable. But not higher math. I never would have been able to teach myself from regular books how to do algebra or trig.

    ETA: Sorry about the appearing and disappearing posts, it's double posting and auto posting on me before I hit submit. Bear with me.
    i swear i could post something about how nice the weather here is today (60, sunny) and i'd get 30 negative posts about how its nearly wintertime.

    can we just agree that jaycee taught her girls the best she could and did a fantastic job at it?


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  29. #30
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    Yeah I was getting the double post issue as well.


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