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Thread: 25 March 2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection?

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    25 March 2010: Susan Cox Powell - Steve Koecher - Josh Powell - Connection?


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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    I don't personally think there is a connection, but if there were, I know which of those two men I would pick!!!!

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    I have been trying to get anyone who thinks there is a connection to give their theory, but unfortunately haven't received a response that gives a reasoned theory, or a link to any theory previously proposed which I have overlooked.

    I'm not particularly interested in Steven's case, but I am following Susan's case because friends of mine are closely involved. If there were a link between Steven's and Susan's disappearance, it would certainly help in clearing both cases up, but trying to establish a link based on an encounter between Josh and Steven in the desert is just too random for me.

    I searched on this site for a while in the Steven Koechner threads to see if I couild find any of these theories, and came upon this link:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Sudd...-investigators

    In short, neither the WVC nor the St George Police departments think there is any link beyond a similarity in ages and living in Utah, but are happy to exchange information.

    That's where I got to in my last post. There is no tenable link.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    I have been trying to get anyone who thinks there is a connection to give their theory, but unfortunately haven't received a response that gives a reasoned theory, or a link to any theory previously proposed which I have overlooked.

    I'm not particularly interested in Steven's case, but I am following Susan's case because friends of mine are closely involved. If there were a link between Steven's and Susan's disappearance, it would certainly help in clearing both cases up, but trying to establish a link based on an encounter between Josh and Steven in the desert is just too random for me.

    I searched on this site for a while in the Steven Koechner threads to see if I couild find any of these theories, and came upon this link:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Sudd...-investigators

    In short, neither the WVC nor the St George Police departments think there is any link beyond a similarity in ages and living in Utah, but are happy to exchange information.

    That's where I got to in my last post. There is no tenable link.
    The only possible link I can think of would be if Josh and Steven became friends online. I feel if they ever did meet up with one another, it would have been prearranged, not just a coincidental meeting. On the day Steve was recorded by security cameras walking away from his car, it seems he was going to meet someone who then picked him up in a vehicle. If he was going to a residence or store, he would have parked in front of it or within close proximity. It would be very surprising to learn the two disappearances are related.
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-26-2010 at 01:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    The only possible link I can think of would be if Josh and Steven became friends online. I feel if they ever did meet up with one another, it would have been prearranged, not just a coincidental meeting. On the day Steve was recorded by security cameras walking away from his car, it seems he was going to meet someone who then picked him up in a vehicle. If he was going to a residence or store, he would have parked in front of it or within close proximity. It would be very surprising to learn the two disappearances are related.
    (bbm)
    That Steven and Josh would become friends AT ALL is extremely unlikely considering Steven's devotion to the LDS Church and Josh's obvious disdain for same.

    "It would be very surprising to learn the two disappearances are related" is a monumental understatement. IMO, it would be profoundly shocking!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    I have been trying to get anyone who thinks there is a connection to give their theory, but unfortunately haven't received a response that gives a reasoned theory, or a link to any theory previously proposed which I have overlooked.

    I'm not particularly interested in Steven's case, but I am following Susan's case because friends of mine are closely involved. If there were a link between Steven's and Susan's disappearance, it would certainly help in clearing both cases up, but trying to establish a link based on an encounter between Josh and Steven in the desert is just too random for me.

    I searched on this site for a while in the Steven Koechner threads to see if I couild find any of these theories, and came upon this link:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Suddenly-Famous-Examiner~y2010m2d27-Susan-Powell-Steven-Koecher-link-considered-by-Utah-missing-person-investigators

    In short, neither the WVC nor the St George Police departments think there is any link beyond a similarity in ages and living in Utah, but are happy to exchange information.

    That's where I got to in my last post. There is no tenable link.
    (bbm)

    I totally agree, Bartleby. The timelines plus distances between locations are virtually impossible.

    West Valley City is a bedroom community of Salt Lake City. WVC's population is over 123,447. Salt Lake City's population is over
    1,115, 692.


    Because Susan, Josh and Steven at one time in their lives lived in WVC is no reason to believe they knew each other. I've seen not a speck of teeny tiny proof that they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    I have been trying to get anyone who thinks there is a connection to give their theory, but unfortunately haven't received a response that gives a reasoned theory, or a link to any theory previously proposed which I have overlooked.

    I'm not particularly interested in Steven's case, but I am following Susan's case because friends of mine are closely involved. If there were a link between Steven's and Susan's disappearance, it would certainly help in clearing both cases up, but trying to establish a link based on an encounter between Josh and Steven in the desert is just too random for me.
    I'm open to ANY theory that's fact-based, because a solution to these cases is what's needed. Despite what others may believe, I've studied to determine if I'm off-base.


    Here's the problem with the "met in the desert" theory: THE MAP

    Steven Koecher drove along I-80, not through the west desert.

    Josh Powell claims he was in the "Pony Express" area.

    You may have to move the map around, to see both A (Simpson Springs Campground) and I-80 -- but when you do, you see that there's no way to get from Simpson Springs Campground in Utah to Ruby Valley Nevada.

    The paved roads don't even connect. Steven drove only along the freeways, based on the bank records and receipts. He didn't have time to slog (for no apparent reason) through hundreds of miles of muddy dirt roads -- some of which pass through no-access military areas.

    That big light-blue area is Dugway Proving Grounds. You do not drive there there.
    What's missing on that map, is the Utah Test and Training Range - which runs between Dugway Proving Grounds and I-80 AND THEN extends further north almost to the Idaho border. It's the Air Force's largest bombing range.

    IF Steven had wanted to take a shorter route, he'd have driven up US-93 to Ruby Valley. Hollyblue knows that she and I hashed this out for almost two days, over in the Koecher thread. I'm not even the one who decided that Steven didn't go "off-route"; it was another WSer who pointed out it was near-impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    I searched on this site for a while in the Steven Koechner threads to see if I couild find any of these theories, and came upon this link:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Sudd...-investigators

    In short, neither the WVC nor the St George Police departments think there is any link beyond a similarity in ages and living in Utah, but are happy to exchange information.

    That's where I got to in my last post. There is no tenable link.
    But many peopl have read that examiner.com article's headline, and not the full story. I categorize that non-journalistic story as "sensationalism".

    Bottom line: Can anyone here show facts that link these cases ... without discarding known information?

    Details ARE important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    The only possible link I can think of would be if Josh and Steven became friends online.
    Same here. Or, if Susan and Steven became online friends. BUT ... the facts don't support it.

    1 - Steven didn't have internet access in his apartment. There wasn't even a working landline in the home he rented in. He occasionally used the computers at the public library.

    2 - Steven's phone records have been studied by LE. Nothing there but known friends, relatives and church members.

    3 - Steven's computer was subpoenaed and forensically examined, with the same results: NOTHING on it gave a clue to his disappearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    I feel if they ever did meet up with one another, it would have been prearranged, not just a coincidental meeting. On the day Steve was recorded by security cameras walking away from his car, it seems he was going to meet someone who then picked him up in a vehicle. If he was going to a residence or store, he would have parked in front of it or within close proximity. It would be very surprising to learn the two disappearances are related.
    Frankly, I'd be THRILLED to find out that they were connected. Why? Because it would lead to a solution. There'd be things to check. We'd know, by now, what happened!
    Last edited by imamaze; 03-27-2010 at 06:50 PM. Reason: rude and sarcastic

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    At one point it was thought that JP might have headed in some direction other than towards the west desert. Is there any known evidence supporting that or ruling it out, other than the behavior of the investigators?

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    Quote Originally Posted by laytonian View Post
    I'm open to ANY theory that's fact-based, because a solution to these cases is what's needed. Despite what others may believe, I've studied to determine if I'm off-base.


    Here's the problem with the "met in the desert" theory: THE MAP

    Steven Koecher drove along I-80, not through the west desert.

    Josh Powell claims he was in the "Pony Express" area.

    You may have to move the map around, to see both A (Simpson Springs Campground) and I-80 -- but when you do, you see that there's no way to get from Simpson Springs Campground in Utah to Ruby Valley Nevada.

    The paved roads don't even connect. Steven drove only along the freeways, based on the bank records and receipts. He didn't have time to slog (for no apparent reason) through hundreds of miles of muddy dirt roads -- some of which pass through no-access military areas.

    That big light-blue area is Dugway Proving Grounds. You do not drive there there.
    What's missing on that map, is the Utah Test and Training Range - which runs between Dugway Proving Grounds and I-80 AND THEN extends further north almost to the Idaho border. It's the Air Force's largest bombing range.

    IF Steven had wanted to take a shorter route, he'd have driven up US-93 to Ruby Valley. Hollyblue knows that she and I hashed this out for almost two days, over in the Koecher thread. I'm not even the one who decided that Steven didn't go "off-route"; it was another WSer who pointed out it was near-impossible.



    But many peopl have read that examiner.com article's headline, and not the full story. I categorize that non-journalistic story as "sensationalism".

    Bottom line: Can anyone here show facts that link these cases ... without discarding known information?

    Details ARE important.
    The problem I have, and I'm not saying the cases are connecting, is we do not know where Josh drove between 12:30 AM and 5:30 PM on December 7, 2009.

    Do we really believe Josh Powell tells the truth about much of anything?

    As far as we have been able to determine, by contacting three colleges, he does NOT have a degree in business administration.

    When looking at his bankruptcy papers, he lied about the value of 99% of his possessions.

    When Josh Powell claims he left Susan sleeping in her bed on December 7, 2009, we have every reason to believe this is a lie.

    Josh Powell claims he has 12 years experience in the real estate industry and that is also a lie!

    I do not think Josh and Steve just happened to run into each other out in the desert.

    I do not think Susan and Steve have run off together.

    The only possible connection would be that Josh, Michael and/or Steve Powell conspired together with Steve Koecher. This, however, is highly unlikely, in my opinion.

    However, the fact he just parked and then walked away from his car, apparently walking several blocks, then just up and disappears is very suspicious to say the least.

    Was Steve Koecher instructed to park there then walk to meet someone who didn't want his car seen at their home?

    Is there a possibility that Steve Koecher is in victim witness protection?

    Please don't jump all over me for my input here or I will not participate in this particular topic any longer. Thank you
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-26-2010 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
    I don't personally think there is a connection, but if there were, I know which of those two men I would pick!!!!
    If Susan had to pick, the choice would be "neither" (frankly).

    In fact, if you study their work records, they were similar. No job was ever "just right"uently.

    If you study their personalities, there are *some* similarities. Although their religious views were practically opposite of each other, they were as strongly held.

    Steven was unable to find "the right girl". When he did find one he thought was right, he prayed to God (who told him she was not the right girl for him). Is that the kind of guy who'd run off with a married woman who had two children?

    There are some issues with Steven that I will not discuss. You can read posts by his friend gsmith, right here on WS and get some clues. There is also information from close friends, that cannot be publicly disclosed.

    Steven wouldn't have driven through a muddy desert. Susan wouldn't have run off with him.

    Although he's being portrayed as a "hero" for rescuing two latchkey children who were locked out of their home, all he really did was call their mother on his cellphone.

    It's my personal belief that we cannot project someone's use of a cellphone into heroics involving an encounter with Josh Powell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    Was Steve Koecher instructed to park there then walk to meet someone who didn't want his car seen at their home?
    Was he instructed to park there for any reason? Another one that comes to mind is simply because someone wanted him to demonstrate his willingness to follow orders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    The problem I have, and I'm not saying the cases are connecting, is we do not know where Josh drove between 12:30 AM and 5:30 PM on December 7, 2009.

    Do we really believe Josh Powell tells the truth about much of anything?
    (gentle snippage)

    Absolutely NOT. I believe nothing from that man. I don't even believe he went to the west desert. I think he lied, to throw everyone off and it's working (at least publicly). Why would he even be familiar enough with that area, to go out there in the dark, in December, with two small children?

    If JP says he went west, I'd be looking east. Or in the garbage dump. Why take a body that far, when you can dump it in one of the gigantic trash cans that is out on the street...and have it taken away for you?

    In fact, I'm starting to think the reason LE quit searching out there, is that they don't believe Susan's out there, either. I'm not so sure Mr Cox believes it, either.

    Have you seen this recent article, about Mr Cox going out to the desert, just recently? It was his first visit. ABC-4, March 23

    Quote: "I surmised he was searching more for a feeling than a thing. He wanted to know if his daughterís fate was somehow tied to this place. And he seemed to come away more determined than ever that the answer would not be found there.
    I believe that is why the Cox family has now come out with even stronger statements of caution about the planned search of the Simpson Springs area on April 10th."


    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    However, the fact he just parked and then walked away from his car, apparently walking several blocks, then just up and disappears is very suspicious to say the least.

    Was Steve Koecher instructed to park there then walk to meet someone who didn't want his car seen at their home?

    Is there a possibility that Steve Koecher is in victim witness protection?
    Witness protection:
    When someone goes into witness protection, their family knows about it and has means of communication (through an intermediary). Why would they report someone in the WP as "missing" and have everyone try to find them? That'd endanger the "missing" person's life, I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grayjay View Post
    Was he instructed to park there for any reason? Another one that comes to mind is simply because someone wanted him to demonstrate his willingness to follow orders.
    Or...maybe he was just driving around, and saw that it was the perfect place to park. It's the only "unoccupied" dead end in that entire, huge Anthem Sun City area. We can't rule out that he went there to harm himself, can we? (Isn't that the simplest theory?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by grayjay View Post
    At one point it was thought that JP might have headed in some direction other than towards the west desert. Is there any known evidence supporting that or ruling it out, other than the behavior of the investigators?
    No. I think they *have* to search the area, "just because he said so" (and public pressure).

    That's a long way to drive, if you're unprepared. Certainly he'd have had to make a gas purchase at some time. Or get supplies for the kids.

    Is it at all possible he just drove around to put miles on the car ... to support his alibi? I think so. Doing it again in the rental car, to avoid everyone and add to the mystery?

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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by laytonian View Post
    If Susan had to pick, the choice would be "neither" (frankly).

    In fact, if you study their work records, they were similar. No job was ever "just right"uently.

    If you study their personalities, there are *some* similarities. Although their religious views were practically opposite of each other, they were as strongly held.

    Steven was unable to find "the right girl". When he did find one he thought was right, he prayed to God (who told him she was not the right girl for him). Is that the kind of guy who'd run off with a married woman who had two children?

    There are some issues with Steven that I will not discuss. You can read posts by his friend gsmith, right here on WS and get some clues. There is also information from close friends, that cannot be publicly disclosed.

    Steven wouldn't have driven through a muddy desert. Susan wouldn't have run off with him.

    Although he's being portrayed as a "hero" for rescuing two latchkey children who were locked out of their home, all he really did was call their mother on his cellphone.

    It's my personal belief that we cannot project someone's use of a cellphone into heroics involving an encounter with Josh Powell.
    I'm more shallow than you give me credit for--I was just going by the photos!!

    LOL!

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  31. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by laytonian View Post
    (gentle snippage)

    If JP says he went west, I'd be looking east. Or in the garbage dump. Why take a body that far, when you can dump it in one of the gigantic trash cans that is out on the street...and have it taken away for you?
    I believe the first place Josh would head for, when in a state of panic, is home to dear old dad. I think he drove towards Puyallup!

    Of course we don't know what law enforcement has learned through phone records or if they have even subpoenaed Steve or Michael Powell's phone records, but I would think Josh would have stopped at a pay phone and called his father or brother then told them to go to a pay phone to call him.

    I just can't fathom Josh dealing with the entire Susan disposal without having consulted someone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwenabob View Post
    I'm more shallow than you give me credit for--I was just going by the photos!!

    LOL!
    I would never disrespect you, by calling you shallow. We may tangle in other ways, but deeply and caringly.

    That picture of Steven, is what hooked me into the case. He looks like a guy I met at Quickie Lube a few years ago, who asked me "Ma'am, are you HOT?"
    and I started giggling

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    I believe the first place Josh would head for, when in a state of panic, is home to dear old dad. I think he drove towards Puyallup!

    Of course we don't know what law enforcement has learned through phone records or if they have even subpoenaed Steve or Michael Powell's phone records, but I would think Josh would have stopped at a pay phone and called his father or brother then told them to go to a pay phone to call him.

    I just can't fathom Josh dealing with the entire Susan disposal without having consulted someone!
    I think Josh could dispose by himself...but I agree on the direction: I-84. My daughter and I just drove that way, this week (well...as far as Caldwell, Idaho).

    If I were Josh, I'd drive that way and take one of the exits north of Tremonton, Utah. There's many more paved roads that go off into nowhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    Has anyone else noticed how similar Steve and Susan's noses are. Now look at Josh's nose! Lol! Do you see what I see?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PickieChickie View Post
    Has anyone else noticed how similar Steve and Susan's noses are. Now look at Josh's nose! Lol! Do you see what I see?
    Steven's nose is a bit "beakish" in profile - is Susan's?

  39. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by laytonian View Post
    Steven's nose is a bit "beakish" in profile - is Susan's?

    Steven and Susan both have beautiful noses. Now look at Josh's nose!

    No! He has a butt ugly nose. It looks like it got squeezed then pulled and stayed that way! Lol! Look at Susan's and Steve's noses! They are full and beautiful. They make his nose look like an elf nose! Lol!
    Last edited by PickieChickie; 03-26-2010 at 03:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bartleby View Post
    I have been trying to get anyone who thinks there is a connection to give their theory, but unfortunately haven't received a response that gives a reasoned theory, or a link to any theory previously proposed which I have overlooked.

    I'm not particularly interested in Steven's case, but I am following Susan's case because friends of mine are closely involved. If there were a link between Steven's and Susan's disappearance, it would certainly help in clearing both cases up, but trying to establish a link based on an encounter between Josh and Steven in the desert is just too random for me.

    I searched on this site for a while in the Steven Koechner threads to see if I couild find any of these theories, and came upon this link:

    http://www.examiner.com/x-30706-Sudd...-investigators

    In short, neither the WVC nor the St George Police departments think there is any link beyond a similarity in ages and living in Utah, but are happy to exchange information.

    That's where I got to in my last post. There is no tenable link.

    Thank you. I'd LOVE to know what theories support a connection between Susan and Steven. They're both from Utah? Big whoop! I'm going to check out how many others went missing in Utah during the same time frame. Are we to believe ALL these cases are connected?

    Let's look at the different possibilties:

    Susan and Steven were having an affair and ran off together
    Josh and Steven were having an affair and _______???
    Josh killed Susan and Steven caught him disposing of her body and then ________???
    Steven killed Susan and ran off to _________???

    What else?
    ~~~Cynical Optimist~~~

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    Bring post from other thread over.....hopefully

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by laytonian
    Here's the detail we need:
    Larry King Transcript

    "MICHELLE SIGONA, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Jane, let`s talk about that evidence. I can confirm to you that five search warrants have been executed: three inside the Powell home, one for Josh Powell`s DNA. Also one for the family minivan.
    I can also tell you that investigators at this time are working on a sixth warrant which will go towards that rental car. Police do tell me that he did drive for hundreds of miles, the Tuesday after Sunday went missing, that Sunday. That Tuesday evening Josh Powell was gone. They cannot account for his whereabouts. They have no clue where he went."

    Extrapolating:
    Sunday was Dec 6th, "Tuesday after Sunday" was Dec 8th, so the rental car was returned no later than sometime on the afternoon/evening of Dec 9th.

    That matches the timeline in the article you posted, about JP needing Peterson to him to help pick up his minivan "two days after Susan was reporting missing" (which that article calculates as the 7th).

    Thank you. Whether you calculate it as "three days" or "two days", both articles give us the same ending date for that rental car...even though it's not mentioned in the article you posted.

    On the evening of Dec 9th, Steven Koecher was in St George, performing temple sealings in the LDS temple there.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    This is the last post re: SK I will make on this thread---everything should be moved there for other's to ponder.

    Below is the link to the PC given by SK's parents. Beginning at the 8:15 mark, his mother states "He worked on Tues. Wed & Thurs. in central Nev/N. Utah. Friday in St. George". If this was bad info, don't you think LE being right there would correct her? or Mr. K? The news of the temple ward sealing had been discussed prior to this PC taking place and a close relative was aware of it...so how can this be explained? The mother had to have these facts from somewhere, no?

    I do find it interesting that although they (parents) must have had SK's possessions sometime in Dec., the discovery of the passport was not made until late Feb. As was the mention of the temple ward sighting. Two months...after his disappearance. Possible...but hinky. If it were my child missing, I would have torn everything into bits ----looking with a fine tooth comb for anything and everything for a hint of the same in trying to find him.
    But that's me.....JMO


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    Sorry I don'[t know the proper way to bring the SK's posts over to this thread....

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grayjay
    When the cement shape was found, it was supported and debated around all sorts of possibilities on this list. I'm sure that just a single plausible fact can get people thinking and sleuthing and conjuring more relationships.

    I'm hoping you'll share your work at some point and then your idea can be more fully explored by those who have missed what you have found. I can't wait to hear, in fact. In the meantime, I can't make it work even if I wish it could break both cases wide open and find both missing people.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    To share a theory that is not viewed seriously, but with ridicule is moot in my opinion. If it's proven wrong and either Susan or Steven is found....I'll share it. Until then, I will explore other "theories" and while doing so, try to find ways to disprove mine.

    LE has more info than we do.
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