The Case of JonBenet Ramsey-CBS Sept. 18

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I am so disappointed that we didn't get to hear the White's observations and opinions!! I was confused, though. They agreed to speak to investigators off camera, but then changed their minds when they met?

I agree that Fleet White would be able to solve many of the discrepancies in this case especially since he and John were good friends. Lin Wood probably threatened to sue them. When Fleet did speak to John Ramsey the conversations got very heated. I would love to know the details of their conversations.
 
According to Patsy's April 1997 interview, it was a phone with a cord.

TT: Okay. Where, where were you at when you called 911 cause I know there’s . .
PR: Kitchen.
TT: . . .quite a few phones in the house. (Inaudible) kitchen phone there?
PR: Um hum.
TT: Okay. Is that a cordless phone.
PR: No.
TT: Just a, it’s a regular wall phone right?
PR: Right.
TT: Okay.
PR: And it’s some kind of (inaudible).
TT: It, it’s not one of these, oh, what do you call them, you, you, little antenna. You can walk around the house?
PR: No, no.
TT: (Inaudible) This has a cord on it.
PR: To the wall, yeah.

Thank you! I would love to see a diagram of the house and where phones were located, and if they had cordless phones.
 
Those of you who have continued to follow the case for 20 years (I gave up after two or three years) were probably familiar with the silence of the "circle of friends". That stood out for me in the program last night. Whose idea was it to make certain that the Ramsey's inner circle of associates did not submit to LE interviews or speak with media about the murder of JonBenet? My guess is that John and Patsy orchestrated this with the help of their closest friends who made the necessary contacts. :moo:

I really don't know whose job that was, but Susan Stine was the Rs' "pit bull". The Rs moved in with the Stines and then the Stines followed the Rs when they left Boulder. They were certainly major case players, although they weren't called to the home like the others on Dec. 26 (lots of speculation as to why). There is lots of info here about the Stines, which would be good reading now.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that Burke's appearance on the Dr. Phil program was planned by JR because it was leaked that Burke would be named as the suspect in the upcoming conclusion of "The Case of JonBenet-Ramsey." Who best to interview Burke other than Dr. Phil, a psychologist? JR wanted to display Burke on Dr. Phil to show how "normal" he is.

That, and I think originally the 3 Dr Phil episodes were to air back to back but instead the third episode will air today. Is that how Dr Phil normally does things or is this unique? I was thinking maybe this third episode delay was specifically timed to counteract what CBS would be airing.

Also disappointing is that the CBS 3-part series (6 hours) was cut to 2 parts (4 hours). I hope they release extra materials online or something!
 
I just watched the video and it says there that he was secretly filmed while at a friends house and parents were at the police station. The date you noted was Jan. 1997. And I had heard before he was interviewed 13 days after the murder but was not clear on how that came about.

I am not sure at what point the Ramseys said they had never talked to Burke about it ... did he know anything at this point? And why would he say knife and hammer if he knew it was otherwise? Unless, that is just a kid thing...?

Thanks for all these links !
ps. sorry missed that before. The date stamp says Jan 8 1997 so presumably they had talked to him about it somewhat. That is (part of) what I was trying to clarify.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say that Burke's appearance on the Dr. Phil program was planned by JR because it was leaked that Burke would be named as the suspect in the upcoming conclusion of "The Case of JonBenet-Ramsey." Who best to interview Burke other than Dr. Phil, a psychologist? JR wanted to display Burke on Dr. Phil to show how "normal" he is. I don't think Burke volunteered without JR's consent.

That said, I never thought Burke was involved. I always believed one of the parents was responsible.

I think you are 100% right. Since I also think Dr. Phil has the integrity of snake, I think a deal was cut that in return for the interview, Dr. Phil would preach to his housewife choir that Burke is 100% innocent, both parents are innocent and they are all victims of the idiots on the Boulder PD, the press and all of us stupid minions that have believed RDI for 20 years. He upheld his end of the bargain and there are bound to be some still holding onto IDI come hell or high water because "parents just couldn't do something like that" and "Dr. Phil says......."
I
 
I am so disappointed that we didn't get to hear the White's observations and opinions!! I was confused, though. They agreed to speak to investigators off camera, but then changed their minds when they met?

I think that was left up in the air. The Whites agreed to talk off camera but the producers are trying to get them to reconsider, thats where they left it. So it is possible that they will reconsider and appear in part 2 or they will be interviewed and any bombshell will be related by the investigators. The way they left it leads me to believe there is more to come. I'm surprised though because Fleet has done radio shows and been quite open about his contempt for the Ramseys.
 
I have always been a fence-sitter. Last night's interview with the 911 operator totally swayed me. I'm not sure who I think did what, but her info made it apparent that there was no intruder. JMO
 
Thank you! I would love to see a diagram of the house and where phones were located, and if they had cordless phones.

Ask and you shall receive!

The attached image is available here:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/1stfloor.gif.

PR made the call in the kitchen near the cup of pens used to write the RN. JR supposedly read the note spread out on the floor in that same area with light from the adjoining hallway between that spot and where the writing pad was located. Otherwise the important items are detailed on this map.

The other photo is of the kitchen where the call was placed. The phone would be located in the right foreground (area not visible in this photo).

They have good maps of the other floors of the home too:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/basement.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/2ndfloor.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/3rdfloor.gif
 

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For those who can't watch the show or want reminders. Hopefully this helps some. Hope its ok to post this!
My observations from Part 1 and what was discussed.
1.) Warning of graphic material that can be disturbing is shown.
2.) opens with a Colorado Christmas at the Ramsey's snippet (for the tour of homes with PR BR and JBR sitting in front of the Christmas tree in 1994.)
3.) Playing of some of the 911 call. Jim Clemente narrates
4.) Keep your babies close to you Cnn interview snippet
5.) Jim Clemente- retired FBI profiler, expert in child sex crimes, child abductions, and child homicides. Joined FBI's behavioral analyst unit in 1998(I think I'm in love with this man! haha)
6.) Laura Richards- criminal behavioral analyst, Former Scotland Yard Behavioral Analyst, trained by Scotland Yard and FBI, victim advocate wanting to get to the truth on behalf of JonBenet.
7.) "Our goal is to finally get to the truth and tell the world what exactly happened to JonBenet Ramsey".
8.) University of Colorado Law School is site of the war room they have created to investigate the crime.
9.) Jim- "What we need to do is a complete re-investigation starting right from scratch with the 911 call"
10.) Importance of timeline explained
11.) Describing each family member
A.) John- First marriage= John Andrew (oldest son), Melinda, and Beth (killed in a car accident)
B.) Patsy was 14 years younger than John. She was 21-22 when they started dating. Miss West Virginia "She was quite a trophy wife", graduated with a degree in journalism at the University of West Virginia. Worked for John at one point.
12.) Description of life style- John on cover of paper regarding Access Graphics his company, Named Entrepreneur of the Year in article had a billion dollar turnover that very year. This was in the article in the paper that was released fairly close to when JBR was killed. 2 planes and a 30 ft yacht "the perfect family exterior".
13.) Patsy is diagnosed with grade 4 ovarian cancer and dies in 2006.
14.)" The most important thing it to go where the evidence takes us". Jim C.
15.) Introduction to the rest of the team:
A.) Henry Lee- Forensic Scientist, criminalyst
B.) Jim Fitzgerald- Forensic Linguist, profiler and FBI investigator for the unabomber,
C.) James Kolar- Investigator for Boulder D.A., Chief of the Telluride Marshal's Dept.
D.) Stan Burke- statement analysis, teaches statement analysis at the FBI for 23 years,
E.) Dr. Werner Spitz- Forensic Pathologist, amazing background- reviewed the JFK Autopsy April, 1975, Consultant on MLK assassination, able to tell panel what the autopsy report is saying.
16.) Over 250 yrs of experience cumulatively. (wow)
17.) Henry Lee "This case somehow touched my heart. I wish some way to have the conclusion. Not really for the public but for JonBenet Ramsey."
18.) 911 call- 5:52am December 26,1996
listening to 911 tape. (never states JonBenet's name but does state how the note was signed STBC Victory.)
Patsy thinks she hung up phone but there is 6 seconds of recording left that was originally inaudible.
Jim Fitzgerald- Speaking of factors that are important in call. The fifth word used is the word "We". "What does that even mean? Where's the ownership?
Jim Clemente- "She doesn't mention her daughter's name she says 'my daughter 6 yr old blonde, I'm the mother' says these behavioral things are extremely unusual.
Stan Burke- "The hanging up if you will, when you make that phone call someone close to you has disappeared, you're sending out that phone call for help, I've looked at a lot of 911 calls over the years, they will hold on until the police get there. That's your lifeline, that help indicates hope. The moment you hang up that phone you end that hope. For that phone to be hung up, you have to ask yourself why."

911 enhancement -
noise reduction
A man's voice "We're not speaking to you!" Jim C. states he thinks that's JR's voice.
A female voice - Laura R. says it sounds like Patsy "What did you do? Help me jesus!"
A smaller voice "What did you find?" There were only 4 people in that house and one of them was dead. This changes things because their account was Burke was asleep and he had nothing to do with it and they never really asked him if he heard anything.
911 operator is finally interviewed, Kim Archuletta. Jim C. wants to find out if she caught any behavior that wasn't caught on recording.
Kim A. "I've always been under a gag order do I've never really talked to anybody. So my side of the story has never really been heard." This is the first time that anyone's asked for my opinion in 20 years."
Listening to 911 call now.
Asked for her reaction Kim states "I just remember having that sunken feeling like something wasn't right.The problem was, if you hear the frantic in her voice as she's speaking to me or she couldn't even answer my questions, it immediately stopped. What bothered me immensely it sounded like she said 'Ok we've called the police, now what?' and that disturbed me so I remained on the phone trying to hear what was being said.. sounded like there were 2 voices in the room maybe 3 different ones.I had a feeling about this. To me it seemed ...rehearsed."
"I wanted that case solved. I wanted someone to come talk to me. I wanted someone to get my testimony. When they did the Grand Jury, nobody talked to me. I had an investigator come to my house told me there's a gag order, do not talk about this until we go to court. And I never was talked to again. And it never went to court." Kim begins crying. "That's why I even stayed on when they disconnect because there were things being said that somebody needed to know. It was never addressed. I think it would have turned the case around."

Panel discusses what Kim said and Jim said this changes the entire focus of this investigation and we should keep that in mind as we look at the rest of the evidence. (Burke was not asleep as the Ramsey's had said he was.)
Ransom Note- first piece of physical evidence
(or letter because of the length of this particular note.
Jim Fitzgerald- "380 something words in ransom note.
There's a treasure trove of information that is unprecedented in the annals of criminal justice history as far as I know that both the ransom not AND the body are left at the scene. "
Each member of panel take turns reading the ransom note out loud.
Stan's findings of the letter: It's addressed to Mr. Ramsey and the next words are Listen Carefully. Listen carefully jumps out at him because number one its a letter. What are we listening to?
Jim C.- multiple motives in letter. first start out with :
A.) Foreign Faction; what is a faction? It's just made up.
B.) Amount 118,000 and the really specific instructions about how the bills should be: close to bonus JR received. Why go so small? You go large!
C.) Movie quotes recognized; The house was full of movie posters
1972 movie Dirty Harry- RN- "If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies." Dirty Harry, "If you talk to anyone, even if it's a pekinese the girl dies"
Multiple references to "she dies" and in Dirty Harry it says "the girl dies"
"Don't try to grow a brain John" Similar quote from the movie Speed.
D.) Why do you have to keep telling us beheaded, executed, she dies.
E.) 76% of this RN is not necessary. They are trying to sell this now.It's a sales job. This whole thing coulda been done in 4 lines.
F.) They compare to other famous ransom notes. The main factor in those letters is someone is ACTUALLY missing. Not dead in the house.

Linguistic Profile:
Writing ability- High (the misspelling of bussiness is a purposeful mistake. done to tie in with the word foreign to make it seem someone used English as a second language. There's an element of disguise involved. The misspelling was done to make it seem like it was someone other than who it really was.)

Language One-
English is their native tongue

Age- Adult 30+

Gender- 6 examples of maternalistic language. "Listen carefully" "When you get home" "do not particularly like you" (a guy doesn't care if you like them. in the 100's of cases where things like this have been said it turns out to be female.)
The long letter is high risk behavior. Writing the letter in the home is high risk.
Two practice notes were also found.
The pad was from Patsy's writing desk in the hallway. The pen was underneath the phone. after their use they were put back in their original place.
It makes no sense.
All try to write letter and are timed. 21 min just to mechanically write letter. It would have taken so much longer because the person is trying to think f what to write. the time it took to write it left them at high risk for being caught.
Jim C- " I think we can all agree this letter is clearly staged. What we have to decide through our investigation is whether it was staged by somebody in the family or somebody who came into this home."
Ron Walker- Former FBI agent first responder was the only FBI person to visit the crime scene on that day.
Was there as a behavioral analyst.
Timeline discussion:
the only info he had as he responded was there was a kidnapping of a child for ransom.
5:52am 911 call
5:54am patsy calls family friends the fernies and the whites
5:59am first officer arrives at the scene Officer French
Sometime after 6am family friends arrive
Sometime around this time investigators and victim advocates arrive
8:10am Linda Ardt arrives
8:15am Ron Walker contacted by BPD. (this is the FBI guy mentioned earlier that is now going over timeline.)
he goes to the FBI office and gathers necessary items he might need and arrives at scene at 11:00am.
11:45am Walker meets with Sgt. Larry Mason of Boulder Police H.Q. (they discussed all info known up to that point.)
The first thing he got to see was the ransom note. His observations: The length was "highly highly unusual in the realm of kidnappings"
the whole idea of a small foreign faction- if you are going to kidnap someone you're gonna want to convey an image of authority and power. This didn't.
Very rare for a kid to be kidnapped for ransom. Usually kidnappings are by a non custodial parent.
Ransom note in his opinion was a "red Herring" and staging.
More important for the detectives to maintain visual contact with the family at this juncture. Wasn't concerned about Patsy she was crying and surrounded by friends. She wasn't going anywhere. There was a need to control the crime scene.
10:30am Linda Arndt notices JR has disappeared.
12:00pm Linda Arndt calls into Mason that JR is still missing.
When he reappears his demeanor has changed he's agitated. Since the intial crime was considered a kidnapping, most officers focused their time on the outside of the house.
Walker suggests that Linda Arndt tell JR we are going to search the house from top to bottom to keep him busy. Walker wanted him busy but within Linda Arndt's eyesight.
Walker learns later that when Linda says we are going to search the house from top to bottom and we are going to start at the top, JR grabs Fleet White by the arm and makes a beeline for the basement door.
JR opens the wine cellar door and says something about finding his daughter and THEN turns the light on.
Walker states every staged murder scene hes seen the perp manipulates the arrival of friend or family members who are then put in the situation where either they find the body or they are witness to the perp finding the body. So they can testify to their shock and awe of finding the body.
John brings body upstairs and puts her on floor at the door.
1:10pm Linda Arndt moves JBR body again to living room.
1:20pm Walker arrives at scene.
officer French tells Walker Ramsey laid body on floor right at door. Walker is concerned about crime scene contamination. He said it hit him about the nightmare the forensic people were going to have.

Will continue on next post
 
Pleasantly surprised to find out that the first episode aired here in Australia, so I was able to watch it.

At times I felt it was too RDI-focused, but they were just doing what they set out to do: see where the evidence led them. I think it's very likely at this point that their conclusion will be BDI, with one or both parents covering up the crime.
 
I'm just getting to watch the show in entirety now. Ron Walker is impressing me the most. I like him, no flair or fluff in his wording.
 
I have a hard time believing BR did it. I don't know if he would have been dispatched to the White's house where he could very easily blab and then this whole ransom thing is immediately blown, and then go back to school like normal and have psychologist intervention etc. Would they trust him to maintain this huge charade?

Also, breaking the paintbrush etc and making a garotte seems too sophisticated for a 9yr old.
I think they would trust him not to talk, if there were prior secrets. In order for me to believe Burke did this, I have to believe that he had done various other things in the past that were kept secret. Kids can and often do, keep dark secrets. I think some kids can keep secrets better than adults. I know it's scary to think about, but I've seen it. :(

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk
 
Ask and you shall receive!

The attached image is available here:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/1stfloor.gif.

PR made the call in the kitchen near the cup of pens used to write the RN. JR supposedly read the note spread out on the floor in that same area with light from the adjoining hallway between that spot and where the writing pad was located. Otherwise the important items are detailed on this map.

The other photo is of the kitchen where the call was placed. The phone would be located in the right foreground (area not visible in this photo).

They have good maps of the other floors of the home too:
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/basement.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/2ndfloor.gif
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/3rdfloor.gif

Wow thank you! I am so impressed by how much and how easily y'all can recall the info from this case. One thing that stands out to me, as I was thinking maybe their convo was picked up by another phone that perhaps John was listening on in another room, the house is very closed off, as in each room is very separated from the other. In my house it's very open, which makes sounds carry over easily from area to area. I don't think that would be the case here. So I do think that the convo picked up at the end of the call was from them being in the same room.
 
I wish they had shown the CNN clip where Patsy says "keep your babies close..." and both parents are in the shot and John is mouthing it before Patsy even says it. I think they would have had a field day with that. It's strange that there are different angles available, I am guessing the one without John is the way it first aired on TV.
 
One thing that stands out to me, as I was thinking maybe their convo was picked up by another phone that perhaps John was listening on in another room, the house is very closed off, as in each room is very separated from the other. In my house it's very open, which makes sounds carry over easily from area to area. I don't think that would be the case here. So I do think that the convo picked up at the end of the call was from them being in the same room.

Woah! Now THAT is a thought! We have always assumed that JR/BR were there with PR talking with her before and after the call. That does seem most likely.

But what if JR was on another phone somewhere else nearby (I am 100% convinced he was NOT on the floor reading the note)? PR hangs up the phone and goes toward where JR is listening, and JR doesn't hang up immediately. BR is in the vicinity. Or JR is on a cordless phone travelling toward PR. Not sure if this train of thought would lead us to anything revelatory, but it's interesting to chew on.

NOW I understand why you were curious about other phone locations and corded vs. cordless. Nice sleuthing!
 
That would perfectly explain why Patsy hangs up but the call does not disconnect.
 
Laura Richards has said on Twitter that the international screening of the show will be the full 6 hours. Interesting!
 
I wish they had shown the CNN clip where Patsy says "keep your babies close..." and both parents are in the shot and John is mouthing it before Patsy even says it. I think they would have had a field day with that. It's strange that there are different angles available, I am guessing the one without John is the way it first aired on TV.

I agree with you about that CNN Clip.

What I really appreciated about the show's investigation is that it really provided affirmation for what most of us on Websleuths had been posting about for years. There was such cognitive dissonance out there before, especially with the common belief (and allegations by Denver officials) that the killer was not a family member. As I watched it I felt myself thinking - "Okay...I'm not crazy in thinking that lots of things in this case do not add up."
 
Woah! Now THAT is a thought! We have always assumed that JR/BR were there with PR talking with her before and after the call. That does seem most likely.

But what if JR was on another phone somewhere else nearby (I am 100% convinced he was NOT on the floor reading the note)? PR hangs up the phone and goes toward where JR is listening, and JR doesn't hang up immediately. BR is in the vicinity. Or JR is on a cordless phone travelling toward PR. Not sure if this train of thought would lead us to anything revelatory, but it's interesting to chew on.

NOW I understand why you were curious about other phone locations and corded vs. cordless. Nice sleuthing!

I have to give credit to Tortoise in post 154 for delivering perhaps a hugely insightful theory on the phone. To me, it makes so much sense! He would want to hear the call of course, and what better way?
 
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