IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #21

almagata · Mar 5, 2017

I feel that the guy did not need to be local. He was working in an area that was about a mile long by a quarter mile wide. It was bounded on the south by the river on the west by Highway 25 and on the north by W 300 N. He could have walked around for two hours, assessed the land and made a tactical plan. While making his plan he could scout for victims and get a feel for the number of people in the area. Cars would be heard coming up the road and he would have had a rough idea how often cars passed.

If you spoke with someone who is in law enforcement or the military and asked them to create a tactical attack plan in a given area within two hours, they could easily develop something and probably in a much shorter time than two hours.

My biggest question is how he found this obscure place.

Confusion · Mar 5, 2017

I know there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest/agreement about my suspect, but I just wanted to add another coincidence. These girls were abducted/murdered on February 13, 2017, the cousins in Iowa were abducted on July 13, 2012, and Amber Hagerman was abducted (also while riding her bike) on January 13, 1996. At the time of their abductions, he was ~440 miles from the Lyric and Libby and ~635 from Amber, and within 80 miles from Abby and Libby. There's also an unsolved murder of a woman in Minnesota who was about 125 miles from him when she was abducted; ironically, she disappeared on Feb. 28, but was found on April 13th. I really don't think he's likely to be involved with the last one, she was a mother rather than a young girl.

iten · Mar 5, 2017

Bird of Paradise said:
Well said. And I especially like the "dumb as a hammer" comment.

After seeing the initial PC with the LE gathered around with the deer in headlights, sucker-punched look, I sincerely feel LE took this one personally and will not stop till this is in custody.

I cant recall seeing that deer in the headlights reaction from LE before.

There was a news report Delphi murders investigation update on the WTHR channel (posted on youtube 27 Feb 2017) in which the reporter said that more than 100 detectives from 20 agencies are working on this case.

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that detectives means detectives and therefore does not include other occupation categories.

A bigger than usual LE response? Cant shake the feeling that something about this case has really rattled LE.

melsmemories · Mar 5, 2017

Confusion said:
I know there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest/agreement about my suspect, but I just wanted to add another coincidence. These girls were abducted/murdered on February 13, 2017, the cousins in Iowa were abducted on July 13, 2012, and Amber Hagerman was abducted (also while riding her bike) on January 13, 1996. At the time of their abductions, he was ~635 miles from the Lyric and Libby and from Amber, and within 80 miles from Abby and Libby. There's also an unsolved murder of a woman in Minnesota who was about 125 miles from him when she was abducted; ironically, she disappeared on Feb. 28, but was found on April 13th. I really don't think he's likely to be involved with the last one, she was a mother rather than a young girl.

It is interesting how close he was to all of these crimes . you may be on to sonething

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Jax49 · Mar 5, 2017

Confusion said:
I know there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest/agreement about my suspect, but I just wanted to add another coincidence. These girls were abducted/murdered on February 13, 2017, the cousins in Iowa were abducted on July 13, 2012, and Amber Hagerman was abducted (also while riding her bike) on January 13, 1996. At the time of their abductions, he was ~635 miles from the Lyric and Libby and from Amber, and within 80 miles from Abby and Libby. There's also an unsolved murder of a woman in Minnesota who was about 125 miles from him when she was abducted; ironically, she disappeared on Feb. 28, but was found on April 13th. I really don't think he's likely to be involved with the last one, she was a mother rather than a young girl.

I still think the current case and Iowa may be connected, but the problem I have with your subject is height. I just don't think the guy on the bridge is 6' 3". MOO, of course. Good searching though.

cluciano63 · Mar 5, 2017

I agree that LE has little to go on that is useful at this point, especially since they have so many thousands of tips, yet want more, no matter how "insignificant" they seem. They have not hit on anything major leading to his identity yet. And by "his" I mean one person...this is not likely a two-person crime IN MY OPINION.

melsmemories · Mar 5, 2017

Also amber haggerman was found by a creek

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Lilibet · Mar 5, 2017

Confusion said:
I finally got permission to discuss this on here, and I'll try to include as much information as I can. Hopefully it'll give us some new things to research.

I have been looking at a wanted child molester who is listed on both Crime Stoppers and Indy's most wanted. His name is Justin Wildey, he's 40 yr. old, 6'3" and 220# with short dark blond hair, a mustache and possibly a beard (he's had at least some facial hair in every picture I've seen of him. He's from Indianapolis and has been wanted since January 30th.

He's a single father, but appears to still have a girlfriend; I don't know if she's the mother of his daughters or not, and I don't know if he has full or joint custody. I have seen 3 daughters, and they have light hair, one of them seems to be in her early teens. He works for a trucking company, but has only been there since November. If he does work as a driver, he most likely has had experience somewhere else because it's hard to get hired without any.

He has lived in Indianapolis, Indiana, Greenwood, Indiana, New Richmond, Ohio, Fort Bliss, Texas, El Paso, Texas, Anoka, Minnesota, Elk River, Minnesota and Bethel, Ohio that I know of, and I've been trying to find unsolved cases in or near any of those places. Unfortunately, I don't know what years he lived in each place, so I'd love it if someone could figure that out.

If I think of anything I've missed, I'll add it later.

http://crimetips.org/wanteds.aspx?PageNum=2&F=&O=
http://www.939thebeat.com/2017/01/31/indys-most-wanted-2/

I see what you're seeing but...his size seems too big, and mostly I don't see the wide tip to his nose that is clear in the photos of BG, almost bulbous.
JNO

katydid23 · Mar 5, 2017

nowayinhell said:
It is about interpretation. I agree. I'm a lot more pessimistic. There are times I've been wrong before and have been completely happy about it. I hope this is the case here, but I doubt it. Its sucks to say, but they ain't got ****! All I see from them is feel good, pep talk, ********.

I disagree and here is why----they have FACTS here that are usually not known so quickly in these cases.

On this forum there are hundreds of cases that are much worse off, in terms of lack of potential evidence.

In this case we have a picture/video/audio of one of the killers and we have the bodies which were found intact and very quickly---which denotes high probability of DNA and forensics evidence. We have a known timeline and an abundance of cyber records. And we know where the crime scene is and the cause of death.

I know of dozens and dozens of truly cold cases---where perhaps no body has been found yet ---or there's no known cause of death---no idea if the perps were comprised of a group of teen girls or perhaps it was really the stepfather or the ex boyfriend. So many cases where everything is still a question mark.

And in this case we have VIDEO evidence and DNA/forensics. They have so much concrete knowledge to work with. And that is why they feel optimistic, in my opinion. :cop:

This case is totally solvable.

katydid23 · Mar 5, 2017

nowayinhell said:
melsmemories Evidence does take time to process, but after 3 weeks, they would have put it out by now. They are grabbing and reaching for anything they can. Thus the nonstop call for more tips. I hate to say that, but I believe it's reality. I really thought that the pics would find the s.o.b. but it's been a lot of days since then, no new info, it's going cold. It sucks, but that's my take on the reality of the situation. He'll get caught eventually, but I don't believe it will be from this case anymore. I had high hopes, but they've been dashed.

Going cold? In just 3 weeks, a brutal double murder of 2 young girls is going cold? I don't think so.

There have been over 9000 tips. It has only been 21 days. I think it is safe to say that this case has not gone cold.

If your hopes can be dashed in 3 short weeks, good luck following any other of these tragic cases...:sigh:

Jennifer.k · Mar 5, 2017

I don't think that this case is going cold. Just because some people might have run out of things to speculate on here doesn't mean that LE have nothing.
They have a lot more than us.
:video and audio of who knows what that appears to be horiffic
: crime scene and COD
:exact timing and location's
:Thousands of tips
:maybe DNA and other forensic results.
:witnesses who may have seen the girls on the day.
:access to phone records and computers of the girls
the list can go on and on.
We have a grainy pic and audio that is not very clear.
I think the are taking there time because they don't want to mess this up JMO

Scarlett12 · Mar 5, 2017

I think he is local-ish for one reason. He crossed Abby and Libby through the creek where it is shallower.

Unless he spent hours testing the fast moving creek to see where they could cross , or he just got lucky that day he had to have some knowledge of the creek.

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#1nana · Mar 5, 2017

Someone in the last thread mentioned if this was a SM connection of some sorts, LE would have a trail to follow. However I wonder if someone unfriends or unfollows (not sure how SC works) is there a record once that person is no longer connected? Especially if they never commented or interacted but rather just lurked?

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Theforeigner · Mar 5, 2017

Confusion said:
I know there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest/agreement about my suspect, but I just wanted to add another coincidence. These girls were abducted/murdered on February 13, 2017, the cousins in Iowa were abducted on July 13, 2012, and Amber Hagerman was abducted (also while riding her bike) on January 13, 1996. At the time of their abductions, he was ~440 miles from the Lyric and Libby and ~635 from Amber, and within 80 miles from Abby and Libby. There's also an unsolved murder of a woman in Minnesota who was about 125 miles from him when she was abducted; ironically, she disappeared on Feb. 28, but was found on April 13th. I really don't think he's likely to be involved with the last one, she was a mother rather than a young girl.

Abigail Williams and Amber Hagerman are IMO incredible look alikes,
Elizabeth Cook is also same type as Amber and Abigail.
All 3 abducted the 13th.

Abigail Williams 13 years old
abducted February 13, 2017
Delphi, Indiana

abigail-williams-ea35a421-6896-496e-b4bf-b0bc4502501f.jpg

Elizabeth Cook 8 years old
abducted July 13, 2012
Evansdale, Iowa

Amber Hagerman 9 years old
abducted January 13, 1996
Arlington, Texas

And

Liberty German and Lyric Cook are IMO incredible look alikes.
Also both abducted the 13th.

Liberty German 14 years old
abducted February 13, 2017
Delphi, Indiana

Lyric Cook-Morrissey 10 years old
abducted July 13, 2012
Evansdale, Iowa

Serial killers often has a physical appearance type preference of victims,
so one has to wonder if all those girls were murdered by the same killer ?

Rosa913 · Mar 5, 2017

It is very important to find the man who are walking at the trail, probably is the man who said "down the hill", he can be the killer of Abigail and Liberty. They could meet him in the web (Facebook, etc.) thinking was a person of their age and they planned one appointment to meet themselves...

#1nana · Mar 5, 2017

nowayinhell said:
It is about interpretation. I agree. I'm a lot more pessimistic. There are times I've been wrong before and have been completely happy about it. I hope this is the case here, but I doubt it. Its sucks to say, but they ain't got ****! All I see from them is feel good, pep talk, ********.

Well one good thing about Delphi being a small town is that they probably have an extremely low crime rate, that means LOTS of time to work on this case. Unlike a big city like LA or Chicago where crime is off the charts. I know firsthand that LE in a small community are more than just men and women in uniform, they are our uncles, brothers, fathers, sisters and mothers. That adds additional passion and dedication. Small communities are tightly knit and everyone feels like family. I have no doubt LE won't give up until this is caught. IMO JMO and all other O'ing...

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andalso · Mar 5, 2017

Scarlett12 said:
I think he is local-ish for one reason. He crossed Abby and Libby through the creek where it is shallower.

Unless he spent hours testing the fast moving creek to see where they could cross , or he just got lucky that day he had to have some knowledge of the creek.

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Perhaps he's local. But I was also thinking along the lines of someone with military training...they could have knowledge of how to cross a creek properly. (Maybe I just watched too much Ultimate Survivor Alaska...but the military folk on there were well trained in river crossings.)

sbaughman · Mar 5, 2017

#1nana said:
Well one good thing about Delphi being a small town is that they probably have an extremely low crime rate, that means LOTS of time to work on this case. Unlike a big city like LA or Chicago where crime is off the charts. I know firsthand that LE in a small community are more than just men and women in uniform, they are our uncles, brothers, fathers, sisters and mothers. That adds additional passion and dedication. Small communities are tightly knit and everyone feels like family. I have no doubt LE won't give up until this is caught. IMO JMO and all other O'ing...

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Agree that this is going to be solved. IMO, LE has done everything right in terms of increasing the likelihood this case is solved: bringing in the FBI, getting billboards, advertising a large reward, updating the media, releasing images AND voice of the suspect, putting a rush on DNA, encouraging more tips, releasing behavioral clues, and so on. Keeping the public interested and aware is the best chance they have of IDing this guy (other than potential DNA hits) and I'm glad they're doing a good job of it.

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#1nana · Mar 5, 2017

I think he's been local for a short period of time. IMO he moves around a lot. Works at low paying, menial jobs. Emits such an overwhelming amount of creepiness that it results in no friends and/or family because most intelligent people can tune into that and distance themselves from derelicts like this. I think he will linger in this area for a while and then pick up and move on. He has nothing holding him anywhere for long. Again JMO, IMO.

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kellala · Mar 5, 2017

1968 said:
LE are never going to 'give up' on this case IMO. The crime was too heinous and the effect on the community has been too great,
and I believe that they have a crap load more evidence than what they have released to John Q Public!
I believe this case will be solved and the perpetrator will be caught because there are
so many people who care about what happened to these 2 beautiful young girls - in their community, in their county, in their state, in their country and in the world than this dumb as a hammer killer could have ever imagined. He should have stuck to sucking at life and whacking off to target catalogues.

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If he is not In IN or nearby state, I am not sure how many people know the case, pic, voice? I remember in E. Smart case the whole nation knows it. This case need to broadcast more if possible.

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IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #21

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