Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

who molested/abused JB?

  • JR

    Votes: 180 27.1%

  • BR

    Votes: 203 30.6%

  • JAR

    Votes: 28 4.2%

  • a close family friend

    Votes: 41 6.2%

  • a stranger/stalker a la JMK

    Votes: 20 3.0%

  • PR-it wasn't sexual abuse,it was corporal punishment

    Votes: 89 13.4%

  • she wasn't previously abused/molested

    Votes: 103 15.5%
  • Total voters
    664

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I vote for "relative not living in household". It seems to me that a certain relative left town, just in time to avoid the death scene, but not soon enough to avoid having molested JonBenet pre-death scene.

Thanks :)
 
i've seen lots of references to "a little bit molested". would there be something to her being subjected to "a little bit" to learn how to portray herself sexy for the pageant stuff?
 
runsdeep said:
i've seen lots of references to "a little bit molested". would there be something to her being subjected to "a little bit" to learn how to portray herself sexy for the pageant stuff?
Click to expand...

As an incest survivor...there is no "a little bit" molested. Fondling is molested, sex in front of a child...abuse, sexually inappropriate content exposed by the perp...abuse. No little bit to it. It is all abuse...and it is hell for children.
 
runsdeep said:
i've seen lots of references to "a little bit molested". would there be something to her being subjected to "a little bit" to learn how to portray herself sexy for the pageant stuff?
Click to expand...

What you are referring to is a comment made by Patsy's mother, Nedra. When she spoke about JB's death, she made a comment that she was "only a little bit molested". This is odd for several reasons. First, if it were my granddaughter, there would be a lot more anger and much less tolerance for how molested she was. It was also a very suspicious comment to make because Patsy and JR had such suspicious reactions to being told about evidence of sexual abuse. Neither claimed to have read the autopsy report. When told of the abuse, instead of shock, anger, horror- Patsy defiantly and angrily said "You show me where it says that!" JR, instead of shock and horror, accused LE of "trying to defile my relationship with my daughter".
Is this the reactions of innocent people whose little girl was found murdered? They should have been tearing the police station down until they found who had done this, not reacting defensively.
Nedra's comment proves she had the information from somewhere. It was like she was saying it's no big deal- just a "little bit of molestation", as if it was OK because it was not a rape with a penis. As if a finger is OK.
Well, it WAS a big deal. NOTHING belongs inside the vagina of a 6-year old girl. Inside JB's was her own blood, bruising, erosion and hyperemia (inflammation) as well as the FACT that it was stretched much larger than it should have been for a child that age.
 
DeeDee249 said:
What you are referring to is a comment made by Patsy's mother, Nedra. When she spoke about JB's death, she made a comment that she was "only a little bit molested". This is odd for several reasons. First, if it were my granddaughter, there would be a lot more anger and much less tolerance for how molested she was. It was also a very suspicious comment to make because Patsy and JR had such suspicious reactions to being told about evidence of sexual abuse. Neither claimed to have read the autopsy report. When told of the abuse, instead of shock, anger, horror- Patsy defiantly and angrily said "You show me where it says that!" JR, instead of shock and horror, accused LE of "trying to defile my relationship with my daughter".
Is this the reactions of innocent people whose little girl was found murdered? They should have been tearing the police station down until they found who had done this, not reacting defensively.
Nedra's comment proves she had the information from somewhere. It was like she was saying it's no big deal- just a "little bit of molestation", as if it was OK because it was not a rape with a penis. As if a finger is OK.
Well, it WAS a big deal. NOTHING belongs inside the vagina of a 6-year old girl. Inside JB's was her own blood, bruising, erosion and hyperemia (inflammation) as well as the FACT that it was stretched much larger than it should have been for a child that age.
Click to expand...

well, i'm fishing for if anyone has any ideas about the makings of pageant winners for these little girls. i saw pics before she started winning and some after where her demeaner seemed to change from normal little girl to seductive. since pageants seemed to be so important to the adult women, if they didnt mind the "little bit" stuff to promote her.

i'm putting "little bit" in quotes because i also dont consider a little bit to not be a big deal, just quoting what seems to be their perspective. see?
 
DeeDee249 said:
What you are referring to is a comment made by Patsy's mother, Nedra. When she spoke about JB's death, she made a comment that she was "only a little bit molested". This is odd for several reasons. First, if it were my granddaughter, there would be a lot more anger and much less tolerance for how molested she was. It was also a very suspicious comment to make because Patsy and JR had such suspicious reactions to being told about evidence of sexual abuse. Neither claimed to have read the autopsy report. When told of the abuse, instead of shock, anger, horror- Patsy defiantly and angrily said "You show me where it says that!" JR, instead of shock and horror, accused LE of "trying to defile my relationship with my daughter".
Is this the reactions of innocent people whose little girl was found murdered? They should have been tearing the police station down until they found who had done this, not reacting defensively.
Nedra's comment proves she had the information from somewhere. It was like she was saying it's no big deal- just a "little bit of molestation", as if it was OK because it was not a rape with a penis. As if a finger is OK.
Well, it WAS a big deal. NOTHING belongs inside the vagina of a 6-year old girl. Inside JB's was her own blood, bruising, erosion and hyperemia (inflammation) as well as the FACT that it was stretched much larger than it should have been for a child that age.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this post and for pointing out the origin of the "only a little bit molested." That is a horrible thing for a grandmother to say. It's a horrible for anyone to say about a six-year-old little girl. But from my experience Patsy's mom wasn't know for common sense remarks.

From reports I think it clearly shows someone was molesting JonBenet. And I'm inclined to believe it was her brother, even if he used only his finger. But the worst of all is that I think Patsy knew and possibly John too. But other than just warn Burke not to do it every again, they did nothing, turned their heads and hoped it was over..Someone in that house on Christmas night took steps to make it look as though JonBenet was molested as well as murdered that night.

The staging of the molestation was done clearly to cover up the on-going abuse she was undergoing for who knows how long. But the previous abuse on her could not be hidden from the medical experts. They knew what they looking at and that whatever happened sexualy to her that night was not the first time. Somehow, this makes her death even worse in my mind. jmo
 
runsdeep said:
well, i'm fishing for if anyone has any ideas about the makings of pageant winners for these little girls. i saw pics before she started winning and some after where her demeaner seemed to change from normal little girl to seductive. since pageants seemed to be so important to the adult women, if they didnt mind the "little bit" stuff to promote her.

i'm putting "little bit" in quotes because i also dont consider a little bit to not be a big deal, just quoting what seems to be their perspective. see?
Click to expand...

If you look at the pageant reality shows like "Toddlers & Tiaras" you'll see that seductive poses and moves and overtly flirtatious behavior is encouraged. These little girls are taught to move, dance, and engage the judges in an outright sexual way, in the name of being "precocious". It isn't cute and isn't precocious. It's just WRONG. Not to mention that a TRULY pretty and talented child doesn't need to be sexual to impress judges.
JB started the pageants around age 3 or at least after Patsy's cancer was in remission. As she grew from a toddler (3-4) to a little girl (5-6) the dance lessons and coaching continued, with Patsy taking an aggressive part in the "making of JonBenet". Patsy's eye was on the Miss America crown prize for JB, and everything she did was to that end.
Some children are more naturally flirtatious than others, and they do not put a sexual spin on it. It was Patsy who encouraged JB's pageant behavior to reflect a more "adult" persona.
I understood what you meant when you put "little bit" in quotes. I used the quotes myself when mentioning Nedra's comment.
 
DeeDee249 said:
If you look at the pageant reality shows like "Toddlers & Tiaras" you'll see that seductive poses and moves and overtly flirtatious behavior is encouraged. These little girls are taught to move, dance, and engage the judges in an outright sexual way, in the name of being "precocious". It isn't cute and isn't precocious. It's just WRONG. Not to mention that a TRULY pretty and talented child doesn't need to be sexual to impress judges.
JB started the pageants around age 3 or at least after Patsy's cancer was in remission. As she grew from a toddler (3-4) to a little girl (5-6) the dance lessons and coaching continued, with Patsy taking an aggressive part in the "making of JonBenet". Patsy's eye was on the Miss America crown prize for JB, and everything she did was to that end.
Some children are more naturally flirtatious than others, and they do not put a sexual spin on it. It was Patsy who encouraged JB's pageant behavior to reflect a more "adult" persona.
I understood what you meant when you put "little bit" in quotes. I used the quotes myself when mentioning Nedra's comment.
Click to expand...


DeeDee249,
On the subject of "only a little bit molested." was this a freudian slip, in terms of the abuser?


JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Chapt. 32. states:-
Detective Harmer presented a surprising anatomy lesson on vaginas to a meeting attended primarly for men. She showed a picture of the vagina of a normal healthy six-year-old girl and contrasted it with a photo of the vagina of jonBenet. Even to the uninformed the visual difference was apparent, and Harmer cited the experts who said there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse although the detectives referred to it only as 'prior vaginal trauma.'
Click to expand...

From memory JonBenet was abnormally enlarged to approximately 1cm. Is that about right?

So assuming Coroner Meyer is correct in his assumption that there was digital penetration. Then between the three remaining residents whose forefinger might have an average diameter of 1cm?


Are there any charts for national digit sizes anywhere? I did a quick search and ended up here: http://www.internetopals.com/ordering/ring-size.htm


.
 
UKGuy said:
DeeDee249,
On the subject of "only a little bit molested." was this a freudian slip, in terms of the abuser?


JonBenet Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation Chapt. 32. states:-


From memory JonBenet was abnormally enlarged to approximately 1cm. Is that about right?

So assuming Coroner Meyer is correct in his assumption that there was digital penetration. Then between the three remaining residents whose forefinger might have an average diameter of 1cm?


Are there any charts for national digit sizes anywhere? I did a quick search and ended up here: http://www.internetopals.com/ordering/ring-size.htm


.
Click to expand...


That might not help. In JB's case, the vagina was stretched over a period of time from repeated penetration. This wasn't a one-time thing, and the size of the finger has no bearing. It isn't like fitting a piece into a puzzle.
 
UKGuy said:
DeeDee249,
On the subject of "only a little bit molested." was this a freudian slip, in terms of the abuser?



.
Click to expand...


I always had the impression that the old lady had no idea what she was talking about,maybe she didn't even had a clue what molestation really means....but imo was the kind of person who always HAS to have an answer or opinion...?
 
madeleine said:
I always had the impression that the old lady had no idea what she was talking about,maybe she didn't even had a clue what molestation really means....but imo was the kind of person who always HAS to have an answer or opinion...?
Click to expand...

Nedra wasn't THAT old. And I cannot imagine her (or any adult) not knowing what molestation means. She knew exactly what she was talking about, IMO. She was trying to "play down" any allegations of sexual abuse. The way I see it was she was also trying to play it down because she was protecting someone- her grandson maybe. As if to say it wasn't "serious" sex.
I think it may have occurred in her own family with her daughters.
 
DeeDee249 said:
If you look at the pageant reality shows like "Toddlers & Tiaras" you'll see that seductive poses and moves and overtly flirtatious behavior is encouraged. These little girls are taught to move, dance, and engage the judges in an outright sexual way, in the name of being "precocious". It isn't cute and isn't precocious. It's just WRONG. Not to mention that a TRULY pretty and talented child doesn't need to be sexual to impress judges.
JB started the pageants around age 3 or at least after Patsy's cancer was in remission. As she grew from a toddler (3-4) to a little girl (5-6) the dance lessons and coaching continued, with Patsy taking an aggressive part in the "making of JonBenet". Patsy's eye was on the Miss America crown prize for JB, and everything she did was to that end.
Some children are more naturally flirtatious than others, and they do not put a sexual spin on it. It was Patsy who encouraged JB's pageant behavior to reflect a more "adult" persona.
I understood what you meant when you put "little bit" in quotes. I used the quotes myself when mentioning Nedra's comment.
Click to expand...

most daddy's will come unglued if anyone looks at his 5 yr old daughter in a sexy way. i've seen some not even want their daughters to play dress-up and put on make-up just there in the house.
 
I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

I believe BR was exposed to *advertiser censored*, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
 
Lera213 said:
I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

I believe BR was exposed to *advertiser censored*, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
Click to expand...

Lera213,
BDI is entirely possible. Its the slightly more consistent theory, but imo it lacks a smoking gun aspect.

Everything that occurs after the Ramsey's arrived back from the Whites, seems to be a normal family night, topped off with a pineapple snack.

So whatever happened was unexpected. I reckon, after her snack, JonBenet headed off to someone elses bedroom, given prior events it was probably Burke's bedroom. Her bedclothes from a previous stay were likely still deposited there. There has never been any mention of JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms.

Prior to her death somone sexually assaulted JonBenet. So either she had her throat compressed and her head whacked to silence her, but since sharing a bed with Burke was not unknown, why does he need to visit violence upon her, also the extent of the violence exceeds that I would attribute to a nine-year old boy!

Why does Burke need to kill his sister? This is where a BDI falls down for me.


.
 
UKGuy said:
Lera213,
BDI is entirely possible. Its the slightly more consistent theory, but imo it lacks a smoking gun aspect.

Everything that occurs after the Ramsey's arrived back from the Whites, seems to be a normal family night, topped off with a pineapple snack.

So whatever happened was unexpected. I reckon, after her snack, JonBenet headed off to someone elses bedroom, given prior events it was probably Burke's bedroom. Her bedclothes from a previous stay were likely still deposited there. There has never been any mention of JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms.

Prior to her death somone sexually assaulted JonBenet. So either she had her throat compressed and her head whacked to silence her, but since sharing a bed with Burke was not unknown, why does he need to visit violence upon her, also the extent of the violence exceeds that I would attribute to a nine-year old boy!

Why does Burke need to kill his sister? This is where a BDI falls down for me.


.
Click to expand...
I thought maybe Burke was very jealous of his sister because she got all the attention. Think of the time, money, effort that goes into each pageant JB was in. I mean it could be any one of the 3. Perhaps mommy was showing JB how to be sexy for the judges, gosh maybe she even had her watch some not so clean movies to show JB how to be sexy. I mean the mind can just go anywhere with this.

I do think that the effort and money that this family spent to derail an investigation proves they have much to hide.
 
Lera213 said:
I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

I believe BR was exposed to *advertiser censored*, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
Click to expand...

what makes you say he was exposed to "*advertiser censored* or "movies" and played it out"?? where is there any evidence whatsoever that he was exposed to *advertiser censored*??

If you read up on the injuries suffered by JonBenet you will note the extreme force used to produce the head injury imo not something a weedy little 9 year old like Burke could possibly have done.

There is no evidence he was jealous to the extend he would have killed her. Most siblings will be jealous of each other over various things but there is no evidence here that Burke was that bothered about JonBenet getting the attention at pageans mostly he probably viewed it as "girls stuff" and was probably happy that his mum was putting the pressure on his sister to be perfect rather than him!

Have you looked at the many photos of Burke and JonBenet together? they are natural , happy photos of a brother and sister who clearly love each other imo.
 
DeeDee249 said:
Nedra wasn't THAT old. And I cannot imagine her (or any adult) not knowing what molestation means. She knew exactly what she was talking about, IMO. She was trying to "play down" any allegations of sexual abuse. The way I see it was she was also trying to play it down because she was protecting someone- her grandson maybe. As if to say it wasn't "serious" sex.
I think it may have occurred in her own family with her daughters.
Click to expand...

maybe they all knew about BR and JB playing doctor or something and never took it serious....I mean in this case we can't really talk about abuse nor molestation but maybe this is what she was thinking of,kids playing,nothing serious.....
but IMO if JB was really molested before the murder it wasn't the kids playing doctor,it was more serious hence such a cover-up.(redressing-I don't think she was wearing those longjohns and shirt she was found in when it happened ,whipping the body off,changing the panties,RN,etc)
 
FairM said:
what makes you say he was exposed to "*advertiser censored* or "movies" and played it out"?? where is there any evidence whatsoever that he was exposed to *advertiser censored*??

If you read up on the injuries suffered by JonBenet you will note the extreme force used to produce the head injury imo not something a weedy little 9 year old like Burke could possibly have done.

There is no evidence he was jealous to the extend he would have killed her. Most siblings will be jealous of each other over various things but there is no evidence here that Burke was that bothered about JonBenet getting the attention at pageans mostly he probably viewed it as "girls stuff" and was probably happy that his mum was putting the pressure on his sister to be perfect rather than him!

Have you looked at the many photos of Burke and JonBenet together? they are natural , happy photos of a brother and sister who clearly love each other imo.
Click to expand...


FairM, About those loving photos. Of course the pictures of the two of them together would show naturally happy children. Who takes photos of children when they are fighting, or hitting at each other or being cruel to one another? And then, present these hate photos in a family album or pass them on to friends. Family photos don't have to be posed, but I've rarely seen ones taken when the children were not getting along.
Just pointing out that photos of JonBenet and Burke together isn't positive evidence of how they regarded each other. jmo
 
BR certainly didn't "need" to kill his sister. IF he did, it was unintentional. If he was molesting her a little too vigorously (enough to cause the bleeding we know happened) she may have screamed and he whacked her with the flashlight to shut her up.
The housekeeper claimed to have found them under the covers in BR's room on more than one occasion. I do not recall her mentioning a flashlight, but it isn't hard to picture the kids under the covers with a flashlight, exploring each other.
 
stilettos said:
As an incest survivor...there is no "a little bit" molested. Fondling is molested, sex in front of a child...abuse, sexually inappropriate content exposed by the perp...abuse. No little bit to it. It is all abuse...and it is hell for children.
Click to expand...
I totally agree!!! A recent poster tried to suggest it was...:furious::furious::furious:
 
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