Afternoon 2/20
N: Ms. Arias, before lunch I think when I spoke to you about returning from Mesa, excuse me from Utah to Yreka, you were still driving your rental car is that correct
J:Yes
N: And did you return that back in Redding where you got it
J: Eventually, I did, but not on time
N:You say eventually, did you recall when you were supposed to have it back
J:I was supposed to have it back on the same Fri and turned it in on Saturday instead.
N:Why were you a day late, Ryan Burns time
J:I oversplet and I underestimated the time it took to get from Yreka to Redding and if I cut over to Redding it would have made me late for work so I cut around Shasta so it would be fast, but I called the car dealership before
The next day I went to Redding, I think it was my sister in law who drove me back from the airport to her house where my car was parked.
N: Regarding your time in Utah, do you recall what day your shift was, back, this was at Casa Ramos, you're still working there, what day were you scheduled to work
J: That Friday, I think I was supposed to be there at 4 or 4:30
N:So you went to your grandma's, changed and went straight to work
J:Yes,
N: So because of that schedule you didn't have an opportunity to speak with your family before that shift is that right?
J: Yes, I didn't have an opportunity, I was running late.
N:You were living at your grandparents at that time
J:Yes
N:You had a pretty good idea that Travis was dead, is that right
J:It wasn't something I was accepting in my head but I kind of knew it, but I wasn't facing if it that makes sense
N:You wanted to deny that reality, is that correct
J:Very much
N:Well let me ask you this, at this point in time did you have any knowledge of anyone else knowing of Travis's death
J:No, as far as I knew.
N:Were you thinking, or were you fearing, that that might happen soon?
J: Yeah, I assumed it was going to and I was definitely not, I was definitely fearing that
N: When did that fear become a reality
J: I think it was early in the morning on June 10, sometime after midnight. Dan Freeman called me, I saw his name on the caller ID when he was calling my phone and I thought that may be the call I was dreading and I answered it and he
M: Objection
N: Based on that phone call did you com eto the understanding that mr. Alexander had been found dead
J: That wasn't definitively said, but I assumed so
N: Did yo seek out other confirmation of this
J: Yes
N: who
I called Travis' friend, BH, there wasn't an answer so I don't remember if I called Zach F his roommate and he was talking to his girlfriend and he wouldn't say much. So I got Bishop Layton's Travis's bishop's number and I called him, it was about 3:00am and he told me.
N: How did you react to that
M: Objection, relevance. Judge: Approach.
N: When you received confirmation from Bishop Layton that Travis was in fact dead, how did you react to that.
J: Umm, I just remember I was in the living room at my grandmother's house on my phone, I just doubled over and started sobbing really hard and I couldn't stand up
N: Prior to you hearing that information from Bishop Layton, was there a part of you hoping that he really wasn't dead and he was just injured
J: I was hoping none of it was real, and it was just a nightmare and that none of it had happened.
N: When you heard from Bishop L, that hope was dashed?
M: Objection
N: Wa
J I wasn't able to deny it that much in my head, it was more like facing me squarely and, and
N: Can you describe, apart from facing you squarely, can you describe those emotions that caused you to double over?
J: Umm it's more like the things that were going through my head,
N: What was going through your head
J: I didn't know how his friends found him and I thought of what everyone was going through, and I thought of Napoleon. I didn't know what to think. I just, it was a disaster, and I just, I had to hang up with Bishop Layton.
N: After you hung up with Bishop Layton, what did you do?
J: I was scared, I figured I'd probably get arrested the next day and I was still trying to keep up the pretense
M: Objection, sustained
N: You said you feared arrest at that point. What was your, what was your plan you talked about earlier. Was this when you decided you would either kill yourself or move to Monterey
J: No, I knew I'd get arrested or I'd probably kill myself. No I hadn't decided to move to Montery, it came a few days later.
N: Did you have the converstaion with Flores after you talked to Bishop Layton.
J: It was in the afternoon after I talked to Layton at 3:00 am
N: You called him? Why
J: Leslie said
M: objection hearsay
N: You spoke to her after you spoke to Bishop Layton
M: Objection leading, overruled
J: Yes, the next day, later in the day
N: Now when you called Flores, obviously you just told us Leslie had encouraged you to do so, but beyond that did you have your own reasons for contacting Detective Flores.
J: I thought that if I didn't call him it would look more suspicious than if I did call him so in an effort to pretent like I was never there, I called him.
N: Why not call him and tell him what happened.
J: I was scared to do that. I mean I just couldn't imagine admitting to something like that, I couldn't imagine doing something like that.
N: So you called him to act as if, to begin putting up the facade that you had nothing to do with it, is that what you're telling us.
J: Yeah, I began that facade right away because I didn't want anyone in Utah to know either,
N: So to continue the facade you began in Utah you called Flores?
J: Yes
N: Now we talked earlier about a gun you had purchased, we talked about suicde and a gun you had purchased at, I believe you told us Don's sporting goods.
J: Yes
N: You said you went through a background check and everything, when did you purchase that gun.
J: I think I purchased it july 1 and took possession of it July 10
N: What kind of gun was this?
J: A 9 mm
N: Now there is a lot of time between June 10 and early July. Three weeks or so. Did you make any attempts during those three weeks?
J: No
N: During that time period, you also made various calls to Det Flores?
J: Yes
N: Why were you continuing to do that.
J: Umm, a few reasons. One, I wanted to continue to act like I was participating and two I wanted to see what information I could garner from him.
N: Because you wanted to get what sense you could of if you arrested soon
N: Would it be fair to say you wanted to see if your arrest was imminent?
J: I knew it was imminent, I wanted to see how much time I had.
N: What you said before about killing yourself and not seeking a gun until July, you were living at your grandparents house so you had access to guns, right?
J: yes, my parents had guns also
N: You didn't contemplate killing yourself with those guns?
J: No, it didn't come to my mind until I had possession of the gun
N: So killing yourself wasn't the reason you purchased the gun, is that accurate?
J: Yes that accurate?
N: Why were you purchasing this gun?
J: Several reason, my dad has always owned guns, matt has guns, my grandfather has guns. All of the people I knew had guns. I wanted to be seen as a responsible gun owner. That is something I could see myself doing. I worked at...and had some friends and one wanted to pan for gold. That sounds silly, but the Klamath River, you can pan for gold and sentiment. I wanted to go, and everyone was on board, but even though I wanted to go, I mean they all drink and you get out there and I Just thought it would be a good idea to have the gun with me for general protection or whatever. We were going to go to the Klamath R and see what we could dig up and camp.
N: Were you fearful of what people would do to you?
J: well it was a bunch of guys and I didn't feel as safe anymore
N: around guys?
J: yes
N: and you say anymore, after June 4
J: Definitely after June 4 and it was a progressive thing and I didn't feel safe at all after June 4th
N: After Travis's death was discovered by the rest of the world, were their funerals, memorials
J: Yes, there was a memorial service in Mesa and the funeral was held in Riverside.
N: Did you attend those
J: I tried to attend both, but I only made it to the memorial service.
N: that was in Riverside
J: Mesa
N: Given what had happened why did you want to attend those services?
J: Given what had happened, people knew that we were close and it would look bad if I didn't. And one time he said
M: Objection, hearsay
N: why did you, did you make a promise to him one time
J: the subject of my funeral came up one time and he said
M: Objection hearsay
N: Did you agree you would attend each other's funerals?
J: something like that, he would give an eulogy at mine
N: And keeping that promise was important to you?
J: Yes
N: Why
J: Because he would have come to mind, even if it was in Antartica.
N: But Jodi, why, he threw you down and you feared for your life, doesn't that conduct throw something like that out the window
J: No because when he lost his temper, he was ashamed of himself. That wasn't the kind of person he wanted to be?
N: So you still viewed him as a good person?
M: Objection leading, overruled
N Is that correct that you still believed him to be a good person
J: I've seen very very good sides of him and that's the person he wanted to be and that's the person he wanted to embrace. I've god sides that I'm not proud of and he did too, I just figure that's art of being human. He had really good sides too.
N: By that point in time had you forgiven him for attacking you that day
J: by the time I went to the services?
N: mmm hmm
J: I blamed myself, so I didn't know how much there was to forgive, but I had this experience
M: Beyond the scope
N: what was your experience?
J: I was at the Freeman's house in Gilbert after the service and I was in the bedroom in the afternoon, just taking time out for myself away from everybody and I just, I felt like he was there.
N: And what did that experience mean to you?
J: it helped me to know that he was okay and he was in a better place and maybe that he wasn't mad anymore.
N: You were at the Freeman's in conjunction with the memorial service?
J: Yes
N: After you had that experience, did you forgive yourself for not escaping?
M: Objection, it's not in the facts that she was escaping. N: Judge, she testified to that. M: Judge I make the objections, the way it works is I make the objections, you decide
N: You testified earlier, that on June 4th you didn't feel like you could escape (excape
in an incident in 2007 when he caught you running down the hallway, is that correct?
J: Yeah, my intention was to make it out of the room and I didn't make it out.
N: So on June 4th you didn't consider is a viable option
M: Objection leading
N: at the time did you consider escaping and running away to be a viable option
J: Not out the bedroom door, I thought I could...
N: so going back to my questions when you were at the Freeman's did you forgive yourself for not trying another option?
J: No, I didn't.
N: As we stand here today, years later, have your forgive yourself for not trying another option?
M: Objection, relevance. Approach.
N: Jodi, I'll ask my question again. As we stand here today, have you forgiven yourself for not finding another way out of this situation you found yourself in on June 4th.
J: No, I think that if I had just left before any of that happened, I have a million regrets. I mean, I was scared of him, and I reacted, but still I will always regret everything about that.
N: Do you blame yourself for not taking some kind of alternative measures?
J: Yes
N: You did then and you do now, right?
M: Objection asked and answered. Sustained
N: Why do you still feel, given what happened on June 4th, why do you believe now that you realistically even had other options, once it started?
J: Well, I don't, maybe if I hadn't when I grabbed the gun I didn't mean to fire it, it just went off and it made him even more angry, he just became this volcano. I think if I would hav ehandled it properly, he would have, I don't know he was pissed off but he was raging after that. If i'd handled the gun properly if it wouldn't have gonen off, maybe he wouldn't have gotten so angry and threatened to kill me, something like that.
N: And that happened after conversations with others?
J: Actually I didn't know he got shot until Flores told me.
N: In terms of your life, the plan you made you said that you called Det Flores in an effort to act like you had nothing to hide. When you were living in Yreka were you trying to put up that same facade?
J: Umm, yes, I was
N: Trying to act as if everything was normal?
J: Yes, it depends on the time period. The first week I tried to act like nothing had happened and after I talked to Dan Freeman and Bishop Layton, I felt like I could let it out, my emotion.
N: Because it was known now?
J: Yes
N: when you say let out your emotions, apart from that initial outburst after speaking to Bishop Layton did you have others?
J: Yeah, I did.
N: Several
J: Usually every night
N: Why every night.
J: Cuz at night, I just lay there and think about stuff and usually that was when he called me and usually when he called late at night, he was in a good mood, and I just knew that my phone wouldn't ring anymore.
N: Once you had permission to openly grieve, did you tell your family what happened?
J: I told them that he died. I didn't tell them anything about me being there.
N: Did you tell them about the things that you've told us about your testimony about the sexual things and about the violence?
J: No I would never say anything like that
N: Why not?
J: There were several reasons. One, whenever I told them anything about a guy they hated him afterwards. Two, it was incredibly shameful and embarrassing. Not the sexual stuff but just being in that situation. I don't know if you've heard, but it was a philosphy I had at that time.
N: what was the name of that philosphy, Jodi?
J: It was called the law of attraction
N: what is that
J: You may have heard of it, a movie came out, The Secret. Anyway the law of attraction has been around a lot longer. And I studied about it and when I met Travis, he was really into that. And it became a part of my philosophy, my creed. And when I would get angry he would tell me not to talk about those things. And when he
N: You said Travis introduced you to this law
J: Well, I knew partly about it, he introduced me to the movie he made about it
N: and from what you've described, it's about not putting forth any negative thoughts,
J: Yeah, it's about what you put out, you aren't supposed to put out any negative things or those things will be brought to your life.
N: Travis would assert that law as the reason Travis would prevent you from writing negative things in your journal?
J: Yes
M: Objection, leading overrruled
N: Explain to us then, you mentioned the law of attraction and putting things out there, what was the meaning of that relating to my question about not saying anything negative about Travis to your family.
J: I never said anything negative about Travis ever to anyone except one time to Matt. I didn't want anyone to know those aspects.
N: when you say you didn't want anyone to know abou tthose aspects what did you mean/
J: I didn'twant to say anything about his other issues?
N: His other issues, please, what are we talking about
J: I don't know what else to call it, his sexual problems. I didn't want anyone to know the level of violence in our relationship because I thought that would be construed as motive to kill him.
N: Okay... Remember the day you were arrested.
J: Yes
N: What were you doing on that day before you were arrested.
J: The day before
N: No on that day, before you got arrested
J: I was getting ready to move to Monteray so my dad took me to the North, the south end of town to get a rental. My infinity was gone by this pont so I couldnt go to Redding to get a cheap car rental. I had some things of Matt's from 10 years later, some books and I was puuting those in the car. I was taking a shower and my grandpa told me there was an officer
N: Do you recall this gun you purchased from a sporting goods store, did you have that in your possession or not?
J: I did, it was in the car.
N: After you were arrested we saw that. Did Det Flores arrest you?
J: I think Officer Potter put the handcuffs on me, I don't remember the handcuffs, but he was the one that came to the door.
N: But after you were arrested you spoke to det Flores that day
J: Yes
N: At this point in time, the day you were arrested, you've had several phone conversations with Det. Flores, right?
J: Yes,
N: You'd also gone to the Mesa PD to give fingerprints and DNA, remember that/
J: Yes
N: Do you remember meeting Det Flores prior to your arrest?
J: Yes
N: When you were arrested and questioned by Det Flores and that was the interview you were still wearing a t-shirt and pants, before you were taken to jail is that right?
J: Yeah, jeans and a t-shirt
N: Why didn't you tell him what happened on June 4, why did you deny being there?
J: the main reason is because I was very ashamed about what happened. It's nothing I imagined doing, it wasn't the kind of person I was. It was just shameful. I didn't want anyone to know I did anything like that. It's just not me. I was also scared of what would happen. I didn't want my family to know what happened. I just couldn't bring myself to say what happened.
N: So on that day, based on what we saw on the tape you made the choice to deny being there all together.
J: Yes
N: Were you thinking that that would make you appear innocent, that untruth?
J: I wasn't familiar with any of these procedures. That's what an attorney advised me to do, I didn't know I could just stay quiet.
N: Had you been interrogated by a police officer before?
J: No
N:
J: First I talked to Det Blany, then Flores.
N: So when you spoke with Det Flores on that second occasion, you told him, you were confronted with the evidence that, in fact, you were there.
J: Right
N: Then you told him another lie, right?
J: Yes
N: what did you tell him?
J: Umm I began to tell him things that I thought would comport with what the forensics would show as way as create an, not an excuse, but creat a way for me to not have been responsible for it.
N: So in that regard, you tell him a story about a man and woman breaking in to the bathroom. Why did you come up with this story, why did your story include the idea there were two intruders?
J: There were two people there that day and everyone was saying Oh..
M: Objection, hearsay. Approach
N: why did you create a scenario which two individuals did this attack
J: There were a lot of rumors going around and Flores told me repeatedly that there had to be more than one person.
N: Why a man and a woman with this lie?
J: I mean it sounds a little esoteric, but it could be because it was Travis and I fighting that day. I don't really know to be honest.
N: You know, when you did this second interview, you had some time to think and get your bearings. When you were creating this lie to tell Det Flores the next day, did you contemplate telling him the truth?
J: I contemplated it, I wanted to, but I was nowhere near ready to tell someone that I was capable of something like that.
N: Were you in a state of mind where you could have told Det flores everything? The sex, the lurid sexual interest, the lurid sexual behavior? Did you want to tell him that?
J: No way, he's Mormon, it's even more shameful.
N: What about Travis, did you still want to protect his memory.
J: I was very concerned about both our reputations. I didn't want to throw him under the bus, I didn't see what benefit it would be to talk about those things.
N: What benefit to whom?
J: To anybody, it would just cause more pain. I didn't see what benefit it would be to anybody to talk abou tthose thins. These are things Travis didn't want people to know about, I didn't want to know about. I didn't want to tell about him being violent. Travis and I were friends, I didn't want to portray that. Like that whole day was fine and then it just flipped.
N: What about the benefit to you to tell Det Flores about the reality of your relationship?
J: I didn't see any benefit to that.
N: Was Travi's image more important to you than your own future?
J: It certailny was, I didn't feel like I had a future anymore. There was no reason to take him down. I didn't see any reason, I didn't have a future, there was no benefit to me, there was certainly no benefit to anyone else to say those things.
N: You had mentioned earlier in accordance with the purchase of the gun and that once you said you had the gun it would be so easy to pull the trigger, when you were saying these things to Det Flores in Yreka, did you have plans of killing yourself.
J: Yes, they weren't set in stone, but I really, really, wanted to, I was concerned how it would affect my family, but I just wanted to die.
N: Did you take steps at that time?
J: Yes, oh you're talking after my arrest. I didn't
N: after your arrest
J: I bought a bunch of Advil, a doctor told me not to take a lot of Advil because it was an anticoagulant. I took a bunch of that for days, then they have razor, I took some of those with the attention to slit my wrist. I asked for extra laundry so I could stuff I around my body and I didn't want stuff to get on the people around me so I stuffed it around my body and got under my covers with my razor. I didn't do it obviously, I'm still here. I nicked myself with a razor and it stung really bad, and I couldn't do it. I was really pissed at myself. I wanted to be dead before Travis's birthday.
N: When was his birthday?
J: July 28th
N: What
J: July 28th
N: So this story wouldn't expose anything and you would kill yourself and it was all just done?
M: Objection, leading. Overruled
J: Yes, my family wouldn't have to know, and everyone who loved him they would believe what they would. I didn't want my mom to know and my brothers and my sister.
N: Jodi, apart from the police interviews. We've come to understand throughout this trial, that you've spoke with the media as well. Do you recall doing that/
J: Yes
N: Without going into the details right now, do you remember any media outlet, did they reach out to you?
J: They reached out to my family.
N: Who was it that reached out to your fmaily?
J: CBS
N: A particular person?
J: Yes, Jonathon Leach.
N: Did Mr. Leach come visit you in jail?
J: They didn'twant
N: Was it your understanding that he came to the jail to try to do an interview with him.
J: Yes, well not with him, but with CBS.
N: Did you decide to participate in the interview?
J: Eventually
N: Why did you, you said eventually, did you initially decline?
J: My first instinct was absolutely not, I got a bad feeling. And then after contemplating it for a little while, they made contact with my family the very next day after I failed to kill myself so I thought maybe it was a sign that I'm meant to do something like that first and then kill myself. I saw this as an opportunity to, I didn't know. I hadn't told my family about these phantom intruders, I just thought they would eventually hear about it and so people asking questions or maybe didn't even know about my situation, I didn't want to be known or remembered as someone that could be capable of what happened so I wanted to present a different picture of myself.
N: I'm hoping that you can give us a little better understanding. These media interviews you decide to do, the initial interview you decide to do, you're trying, you believe you want this story out there in the public?
J: well there was more motivation than just that. Jonathon had told me that Travi's friends and loved ones were all participating and it would just be their side if I wasn't participating. And there was that as well. I wanted the world to believe that I loved him and I didn't have anytihng against him. I wanted toe world to percieve me as just a normal person.
N: Why was that important to you
J: I don't know, my reputation used to be very important to me. I think it was because I didn't feel good about myself. I portrayed one image of myself as somebody that was responsible, and sweet and nice and behind the scenes I was falling apart. I didn't want people to know that about me. I wanted to show people that I was not angry and I didn't hate him. And also I felt that at that point I'd made up this big, stupid story for Flores and I should stick with that, and I stuck with it a long time.
N: So after this initial contact by Mr. Leach, do you have any idea in terms of time how much later you actually interviewed with him or with Cbs.
J: It was pretty quickly after. I think it might have been in August 2008 and then.
N: Did you do more than one interview with CBS?
J: Yes
N: The initial interview, where did that take place?
J: It took place at the Siskiyou County Jail.
N: Who was interviewing you then?
J: Jonathon Leach was
N: You say the contact haapened the day after the failed suicide attempt?
J: Yes, that's correct. The contact, not the interview.
N: Was this plan to do the interviews and then kill yourself or did the suicide get put on hold.
J: Yes the suicide did get put on hold, but the plan was to do it before it aired, that was my hope
N: After this initial interview did you interview with 48 hours again?
J: Yes
N: With Mr. Leach again?
J: No,
N: Who was that with?
J: Her name is Marie, I don't know how to pronounce her name
N: Why don't you spell it for us if we don't remember?
J: MAHER
N: Okay, I'm gonna use Ms. Maher. Where did you have this interview with her?
J: This was in September 2008 and and I was in Siskiyou county at the jail.
N: I want to ask you a few things about these interviews. Why in these interviews did you describe your childhood as almost ideal?
J: I felt it was
M: objection, leading, this is not in evidence.
N: When you were speaking with Ms. Maher, did you describe your childhood as almost ideal?
M: Objection leading, overruled
J: I felt it was. Until an early age I have from age as early as I can remember until 7, I remember like one or two negative things. It was a great childhood up to that point. I had my brother I had my pets and I had places to play and lots of little friends at school, that kind of thing.
N: That was part of it, right, the idealness.
J: Yeah, that was part of it.
N: You didn't tell her the other part
J: well I didn't want to say anything bad about anything. About my family, about Travis about myself. I didn't want anyone to know any negative aspects about my upbringing. Bascially I sugar-coated everything that I said. Everything was rosy..
N: Including your relationship with Travis?
J: Yes, I glossed over the negative
N: Were you asked if you'd been physically abused by Travis?
J: Yes, I didn't go into detail, I shrugged it off,
N: Why
J: Again I didn't want people to know about the level of violence our relationship had reached and I thought that would be construed as a possible reason that I had killed him.
N: During those interviews with Ms. Maher, were the sexual aspects of your relationship spoken about?
J: Yes, it was.
N: why was it okay to talk about those aspects with Ms Maher
J: well, I didn't go into detail about that either, I knew that there were some things out there. I didn't tell about all these graphic things we had done. I just hinted at it that we were two adults and things were consensual and it was what it was.
N: You referenced that certain things were already known, are you referencing the pictures that Flores showed you?
J: yes the pics from the camers
N: The naked pics?
J: yes
N: During the phone call with Flores, you mentioned their was a sexual relationship with you and Mr. Alexander?
J: Yes
N: Why?
J: I felt that it was established that I knew him well and we were very close. I wanted him to, I didn'twant him to know we were doing all this stuff. Just that there was no malice there.
N: Before you told Flores, after June 10th and the time you told Det Flores about your sexual relationship, had you confessed that sexual relationship to other persons?
J: Yes
N: Why did you choose, the cat was somewhat out of the bag with related to your sexual relationship. Why did you choose to minimize it during all these interviews?
J: Well, cuz I didn't want to get explcit. I'd confessed to my bishop and it wasn't a secret, but it wasn't widely known either. And I also didn't want, I just didn't want people to know. It's embarrassing really, which is why I didn't want to get into detail about it.
N: To your understanding at the time that you spoke with Ms. Maher, were there, did the evidence exist about the spiderman underwear, did the text messages exist about him calling you a *advertiser censored*, was any of that stuff to your knowledge, did anyone know about that?
J: I didn't think anyone would know about the spiderman underwear because it had been months since we had texted about that or talked about that, I knew that some of those mean emails were still in my account, I didn't know about his, I figured they would be found eventually. I didn't have knowledge that they knew about it at this point, but I assumed they did.
N: Earlier in this trial we heard the phone sex conversation you recorded with Mr. Alexander, was that on your phone when you were arrested?
J: No
N: so in your belief, noone knew about that either?
J: I hoped, I didn't know where my phone was.
N: What's that?
J: That was my hope.
N: why did you continue when you speak with Ms Maher, why do you continue with the intruder story
J: I wanted to remain consistent with what I'd told Flores and I wasn't in any place in my head about my involvement.
