WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

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houndstooth said:
Hey Trig! When I finally saw where this road is I was convinced that you had to know it was there to start with. As in been there before. If it were an accidental turn off by her, you could see with your headlights this was not a good road to the interstate! You would just back out and turn around and not go down there to take a chance on getting stuck or running off into the creek and flipping over.

So much of her actions seem to be to leave a breadcrumb trail to establish her whereabouts at certain times. It was no accidental anything from where I see it. Everything seems to reflect some sort of preplanning. To what end for her son we know. Sadly. For herself, we don't know what outcome she planned. It is grossly intricate to be for a planned suicide. And doesn't seem like the thought popped in her head later, either. Yet she made no logical attempts to save her son or presumably herself.
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BBM

I agree - this doesn't seem to have been an accidental detour. Too remote, obviously not the way to I-5, and unless someone knew where that narrow gravel drive down to the beach was, how could they find it, and why would they go there, unless they knew where it was & where it led to?
 
sorrell skye said:
BBM

I agree - this doesn't seem to have been an accidental detour. Too remote, obviously not the way to I-5, and unless someone knew where that narrow gravel drive down to the beach was, how could they find it, and why would they go there, unless the knew where it was & where it led to?
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I know! It looks like it turns off a private drive anyway. It is so out of the way you would only find it if you knew what to look for.
 
On that note, I'm off to bed, folks. Got an early day in the a.m.

Night all!
 
PaulR said:
I believe these are the stairs leading up to the house of the person that heard the knocking.
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Damn, those are stairs? It looks like long pieces of wood not stairs, but ok.

I can't imagine anyone climbing those things in the dark. And that's the house that heard the knock on the garage? Sorry, I'm confused a little with all the links to different houses and parts of the beach. TIA
 
sorrell skye said:
Link to map of Island View Drive, where the knocking on the garage door @ 1 a.m. occurred. Don't have the exact address.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&c...code_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAgQ8gEwAA

ETA: shows where it is in relation to Zangle Rd.
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The house with the alleged steep stairs leading down to the beach is not the one that heard the 1am banging on the garage then? Charles Grimmer's street which is Island View Drive is back off the beach not on Zangle Rd.

Thanks.

He's listed and here is his location in relation to Zangle:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sou...733,-122.870107&spn=0.007267,0.01929&t=h&z=16

Pretty close to the generic spot Google Maps gave you , SS.
 
PaulR said:
I believe these are the stairs leading up to the house of the person that heard the knocking.
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You're not serious are you? These are the stairs that had to be climbed if someone did knock on the door?

How in the heck would anyone see those in the dark? I couldn't get up those stairs even if completely sober, well fed, and rested.

I look at the pics of the roads Smiley was on, the places the car maneuvered, and I am amazed - no I am shocked she found her way through the narrow dirt roads and somehow, landed on the beach. To me, this entire scenario must have been like a nightmare her and her son. :eek:
 
eyes4crime said:
You're not serious are you? These are the stairs that had to be climbed if someone did knock on the door?

How in the heck would anyone see those in the dark? I couldn't get up those stairs even if completely sober, well fed, and rested.

I look at the pics of the roads Smiley was on, the places the car maneuvered, and I am amazed - no I am shocked she found her way through the narrow dirt roads and somehow, landed on the beach. To me, this entire scenario must have been like a nightmare her and her son. :eek:
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I don't think they are stairs, but my eyes could be deceiving me. Charles Grimmer who heard the knock is listed at Island View Drive, which sits back in the woods not on the beach. I don't think the house Paul R linked to is the one which heard the knock. IF he meant the one directly at the top of the alleged stairs.
 
eyes4crime said:
You're not serious are you? These are the stairs that had to be climbed if someone did knock on the door?

How in the heck would anyone see those in the dark? I couldn't get up those stairs even if completely sober, well fed, and rested.

I look at the pics of the roads Smiley was on, the places the car maneuvered, and I am amazed - no I am shocked she found her way through the narrow dirt roads and somehow, landed on the beach. To me, this entire scenario must have been like a nightmare her and her son. :eek:
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LOL..If those are stairs, I would need an oxygen tank to get up them. I think that link is not right house because C. Grimmer does not live on that road.
Either way, they is no way she could have gotten up those stairs(if they are) in the pitch dark. JMO

ETA: It is remarkable that she was able to maneuver the van thru these roads and yet she hit the curb pulling out of the mini mart. :innocent:
 
Just want to say thanks to all who posted all the photos and maps. It really helped put things in perspective. Great Job!
 
jamiect said:
LOL..If those are stairs, I would need an oxygen tank to get up them. I think that link is not right house because C. Grimmer does not live on that road.
Either way, they is no way she could have gotten up those stairs(if they are) in the pitch dark. JMO

ETA: It is remarkable that she was able to maneuver the van thru these roads and yet she hit the curb pulling out of the mini mart. :innocent:
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lol

I don't think they are stairs. I'm sure other sleuthers will weigh in on this.
 
there were posts and news articles before that said they were stairs and apparently very dangerous steps......I dont know where the link is but the owner of the house said that if someone fell of them they would be killed......

that got a few of us thinking of course....

but as per my previous question........they bought in dogs to that address and they could not find a scent so I was wondering if there were any experts who could tell us how accurate the dogs are......because if they couldnt find a scent it means that one of them knocking on that door has been discounted.
 
Jules71 said:
I don't know if this has already been stated (I am still catching up) - but this class that started on the 12th and ended on Sat. the 13th at 6 PM was an overnight camp/training at Camp Pigott.
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So why would he lie about when his training was to end?
 
houndstooth said:
Thanks Sorrell. I am very curious about these items. Especially the orange ball. For a ball which would float so easily to land anywhere near an inhaler and shoes is quite miraculous. I did an experiment with my own inhaler. I placed it in the tub and turned the water on forcefully with the plug down so the "tide" would come in and eventually cover it over with a "current". It never floated. It stayed on the bottom. On something like shifting sand it would have become buried where it dropped in silt or so it seems. If you find the article see if they say where along the tidewater mark these items were found as well as where in relation to "knock house". TIA
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Depending on how full the inhaler was, it could have floated near the top of the water like the ball did (that's one way they use to teach people to judge if their inhaler was near empty). http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/449883_4
 
PaulR said:
A thought...

If S&A got out of the van and started walking down the beach, they may have been washed out (perhaps after trying to sleep on the beach, or just succumbing to hypothermia) around where the items were found.

In which case the items didn't have to travel very far at all.
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Maybe, but what of the man's shoe? I'd like to see LE try to re-create that, at the closest approximate time they can get to when those items went into the water, and see if they all wash ashore in the same place.
 
Mealy said there were no more clues to report Saturday. Now that Azriel’s body has been found, the Thurston County Sheriff’s Office’s predominate theory — though not the only one — is that Smiley never got off the beach and wound up in the water, too. There were no sightings, and bloodhounds didn’t pick up scents away from the beach.
Based on how far out on the beach the van was found, it arrived there when the tide was at its lowest point, Mealy said. The water rose and washed them away. How that happened, nobody’s sure.
“The current is ferocious there,” Mealy said. “It’s not inconceivable at night, if one is disoriented or not thinking clearly, to wind up getting swept away by the water.”
 
Those stairs are insane... but the knock on there door is too. It has to be related to this.

I wonder if they stopped and knocked on the door before they made it to the beach. With all the missing hours previously, it's possible.
 
Suppose Shantina was afraid, because of her DUI, to get on the interstate.

Suppose she was asking directions to the interstate, not to get on it, which would increase her risk of being caught driving intoxicated again, but to try to follow alongside it using back roads.

So why would she ask for directions to the interstate? Well, because she couldn't very well come up with a reasonable excuse for not wanting to take the interstate, or, she was afraid that the people she was asking directions from knew she was intoxicated and were going to call LE as soon as she left, so she didn't want them to know exactly what route she was really trying to take.

So... she gets directions to the interstate to try to get a sense of which way she needs to go, then she tries to follow alongside it on backroads, but ends up repeatedly getting lost.

Perhaps, also, realizing she wasn't clear, she stopped and pulled over several times just to sit and try to clear her head. Or... she was frustrated and stopped and pulled over to take an anti-anxiety pill and wait for it to work in hopes it would calm her nerves and she could think more clearly and figure out her back road route. Unfortunately, the pill in combination with the alcohol makes her even more fuzzy.

Just thinkin'.
 
paris_paris said:
Those stairs are insane... but the knock on there door is too. It has to be related to this.

I wonder if they stopped and knocked on the door before they made it to the beach. With all the missing hours previously, it's possible.
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That works for me. Shantina's woozy and decides she better pull over and try to sleep it off for a while. Or knew she was going to pass out, so pulls over and tells Azriel she has to sleep for a bit.

Azriel can't sleep, and he's worried (my mom hit her head; child of an alcoholic). Or he sleeps for a while and when he wakes up, he can't wake Shantina and he's worried. He goes to try to get help, knocks on door, no answer, back to car.

At some point he manages to wake Shantina. She's still woozy. She ends up driving to the beach where the tide is now higher sometime after 1am. Disaster strikes.
 
Calliope said:
So why would he lie about when his training was to end?
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The training was scheduled to end at 6 pm. Maybe he figured another 30 minutes to chat and get out of there = 6:30 PM.
 
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