FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

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LolaMoon08 said:
Do you think if Tray was the son of a Sanford Police Officer he (Zimmerman) would have walked out of that station a free man that night?
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Absolutely not. IMO, one of the biggest issues in this case is that LE knew GZ. And that familiarity, not race, is a large part of why his story was taken at face value.
 
Think about it? With everything we have heard about this case so far, Zimmerman getting out of his car, following Tray, etc... do you honestly believe that if Trayvon was the son of a Sanford Police Officer, Zimmerman would not have been arrested on the spot? I'm taking the color of his skin and his age out of it. Do you think they wouldn't have collected Zimmerman's clothes as evidence? Given Zimmerman a drug and alcohol test?

The main problem here is that Police botched this investigation from the get go. On purpose or by lack of intelligence, we don't know? Either way, it's disgusting and they deserve to be held responsible.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
There was a another case, I believe here in Florida, where a dad was shot and killed in front of his daughter after he had confronted a man yelling at a teen about skateboarding. The man who shot and killed the dad claimed "stand your ground" because the father had attacked him first. The difference is, that man was arrested right away if I am not mistaken and had to go in front of a judge. I'm not sure of the outcome, but I'm going to look it up? I know we had a thread about it here on Websleuths somewhere?
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Trevor Dooley case - coming up for trial real soon.

Witnesses dispute Trevor Dooley's 'Stand Your Ground' claim in Valrico shooting

By John Barry, Times Staff Writer
Posted: Dec 14, 2011 08:09 PM

TAMPA — Trevor Dooley's attorney portrayed him Wednesday as a 69-year-old man with fused discs in his neck who feared for his life when set upon by his 41-year-old neighbor, six inches taller and 70 pounds heavier.

Dooley is protected by Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, his attorney argued, firing in self-defense when the most mundane of neighbor disputes turned violent.

More: http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts...ys-stand-your-ground-claim-in-valrico/1206308
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gxm said:
Absolutely not. IMO, one of the biggest issues in this case is that LE knew GZ. And that familiarity, not race, is a large part of why his story was taken at face value.
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That reminds me of something. In the police report the first two responding officers said they did not know Zimmerman. I thought that was strange as many times as he had called.
 
HiHater said:
I think the hoodie has become central because Zimmerman said that Trayvon was suspicious. As we come to find, Trayvon was doing nothing suspicious.

He could have only been suspicious because he was a young black male, and likely because of how he was dressed. JMO
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Trayvon went to the store to buy his skittles and a can of tea. Once he got into the gates, his home was approximately 100 yards. It would have taken an average person about 3 minutes or less to walk that distance. An average athlete running, would get home in about 1 1/2 minutes. I don't recall the players name, but one guy could run a 120 yd. field in 12 seconds.

From the time Zimmerman saw Trayvon run, 2 minutes into the 911 call, to the time Zimmerman hung up with dispatch and still did not have Trayvon in his sights, 4 minutes into the call, Trayvon had a full 2 minutes to run, or even walk briskly, home, yet the altercation took place in an area close to where Trayvon was first spotted, near the club house. Even if he were not running, even if he had been casually strolling home, it would not have taken the four minutes the 911 call lasted for him to get, at least, within feet from his house.

What was he doing? Even if Zimmerman got out of his truck and ignored what the dispatcher had told him, you cannot convince me that Trayvon, a 6' 160 lb football player, could not outrun Zimmerman.

We are not talking someone stalking a kid for an hour through a neighborhood of winding roads and dark alleys, this is a gated community and his house was, according to his father, pretty much a straight shot.

Does this not bug anyone but me? Why not just go home or call 911? As far as my opinion goes, I haven't formed one yet. Firmly planted :fence: trying to figure it out.
 
vlpate said:
I've asked this at least 3 times, who blamed Trayvon's hoodie as the "excuse" or reason for him being gunned down?

Where did this originate? TIA
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Geraldo Rivera. :banghead: :floorlaugh:

Maybe he should shave his moustache in case people might think he's a Mexican bandit?
 
Dr.Fessel said:
That reminds me of something. In the police report the first two responding officers said they did not know Zimmerman. I thought that was strange as many times as he had called.
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There are a lot of strange things about this case.
 
Belinda said:
We have not said GZ was being coddled because he was not arrested. That is only the tip of the iceberg. They did not drug or alcohol test him, yet they did Trayvon. They attempted to change the statement of a witness to back up GZ. They did no sort of investigation at the scene. It goes on and on. We are saying GZ was coddled because he WAS coddled.
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And then before any thorough investigation ever took place, the Chief of Police comes out speaking as if he was GZ's defense attorney, pretty much convicted the victim.

JMHO
 
vlpate said:
Just FYI, Trayvor Martin's is not, by far, the only "Stand Your Ground" case where an arrest was not made. Over half of these cases in Florida were treated the same way -no arrest made therefore, no trial.

To say Zimmerman was being coddled by LE because an arrest wasn't made is just a sign that people are ill-informed and the players in this case are not about to correct the public's view with facts. I would concede, that if all or the majority of these cases are white on black crime, there would be a racial element of selective apprehension - but that is not the case.
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This is not a stand your ground case. Zimmerman's own lawyer already said it wasn't. The governor of Florida said it wasn't. I posted a link earlier in this thread quoting them both as saying so.
 
vlpate said:
Trayvon went to the store to buy his skittles and a can of tea. Once he got into the gates, his home was approximately 100 yards. It would have taken an average person about 3 minutes or less to walk that distance. An average athlete running, would get home in about 1 1/2 minutes. I don't recall the players name, but one guy could run a 120 yd. field in 12 seconds.

From the time Zimmerman saw Trayvon run, 2 minutes into the 911 call, to the time Zimmerman hung up with dispatch and still did not have Trayvon in his sights, 4 minutes into the call, Trayvon had a full 2 minutes to run, or even walk briskly, home, yet the altercation took place in an area close to where Trayvon was first spotted, near the club house. Even if he were not running, even if he had been casually strolling home, it would not have taken the four minutes the 911 call lasted for him to get, at least, within feet from his house.

What was he doing? Even if Zimmerman got out of his truck and ignored what the dispatcher had told him, you cannot convince me that Trayvon, a 6' 160 lb football player, could not outrun Zimmerman.

We are not talking someone stalking a kid for an hour through a neighborhood of winding roads and dark alleys, this is a gated community and his house was, according to his father, pretty much a straight shot.

Does this not bug anyone but me? Why not just go home or call 911? As far as my opinion goes, I haven't formed one yet. Firmly planted :fence: trying to figure it out.
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I think Trayvon was afraid of leading the strange man home to his little brother and so didn't run home on purpose. He knew this strange man was following him. He was probably trying to protect his brother.
 
csziggy said:
Trevor Dooley case - coming up for trial real soon.
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I don't believe the judge ruled yet if Mr. Dooley will even go on trial.

"In September 2010, Trevor Dooley stormed into a park near his home outside Tampa, angry because a teenager was skateboarding on the basketball court. Dooley was carrying a .32-caliber semiautomatic handgun in his pants, and it was visible to David James, 41, who was in the park with his 8-year-old daughter. James tried to disarm Dooley, who is now 71, and as the two men tussled on the ground, Dooley shot James in the chest, killing him. Prosecutors, not surprisingly, charged Dooley with manslaughter. But if Dooley's lawyers can convince a judge by next week that he fired the gun because his life was being threatened — that he is therefore protected under Florida's "stand your ground" law — Dooley may well walk away a free man."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2109511,00.html#ixzz1q4DUaDZb

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2109511,00.html
 
vlpate said:
Where are the leaders of the black community today? I've searched high and low for a statement from Al Sharpton or the Martin Family condemning the cry by the Panthers to hunt down Zimmerman and "wanted dead or alive", kill or capture him.

How is this any different than what G. Zimmerman is being accused of. Where is the outrage from the family and black leaders??

Crickets...
.
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Al Sharpton is probably with his family - his mother died Thursday morning. Since she lived in Dothan, I think he went ahead and attended the rally Thursday in Sanford because he already had the tickets. To get to Dothan would be a drive or a local flight whether he went from Orlando or Atlanta.

Maybe the Martin family is taking a break from the media?
 
gxm said:
Absolutely not. IMO, one of the biggest issues in this case is that LE knew GZ. And that familiarity, not race, is a large part of why his story was taken at face value.
Click to expand...

What about the other cases where people who walked out after stand your ground was determined with little more than a police report. At least 50 cases. Did the police know them too? Call the law problematic, call the cops inept, but saying just because they knew him they let him go doesn't wash with the statistics.
 
Belinda said:
There are a lot of strange things about this case.
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And what people are forgetting, this is not the first time Sanford Police have been under fire for something similar. Which makes it a lot harder to trust anything that comes from them. When a judge signed the arrest warrant for Jason Collison's arrest, they (SPD) didn't even put it in their computer so when Jason showed up to turn himself in, they told him to go home knowing full well the judge had signed the warrant.
 
HiHater said:
You quoted the wrong post. Feel free to go back and read what was being said before you interjected.
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Well, I went back about four posts and no mention of the Martin family. I was agreeing with songline's "two wrongs don't make a right." Which for some reason you called "ignorant." I don't think it's right to assume that GZ went out looking for a black kid to kill. Neither do I think an armed neighborhood watch captain or shooting an unarmed 17-year old are right. This case was "wrong" from the start and it just gets more wrong with each passing day.
 
csziggy said:
Trevor Dooley case - coming up for trial real soon.
Click to expand...

I think that trial might be going on now. I haven't followed it closely but saw on tv that the victim's young daughter, who was there that day, was testifying.
 
vlpate said:
Trayvon went to the store to buy his skittles and a can of tea. Once he got into the gates, his home was approximately 100 yards. It would have taken an average person about 3 minutes or less to walk that distance. An average athlete running, would get home in about 1 1/2 minutes. I don't recall the players name, but one guy could run a 120 yd. field in 12 seconds.

From the time Zimmerman saw Trayvon run, 2 minutes into the 911 call, to the time Zimmerman hung up with dispatch and still did not have Trayvon in his sights, 4 minutes into the call, Trayvon had a full 2 minutes to run, or even walk briskly, home, yet the altercation took place in an area close to where Trayvon was first spotted, near the club house. Even if he were not running, even if he had been casually strolling home, it would not have taken the four minutes the 911 call lasted for him to get, at least, within feet from his house.

What was he doing? Even if Zimmerman got out of his truck and ignored what the dispatcher had told him, you cannot convince me that Trayvon, a 6' 160 lb football player, could not outrun Zimmerman.

We are not talking someone stalking a kid for an hour through a neighborhood of winding roads and dark alleys, this is a gated community and his house was, according to his father, pretty much a straight shot.

Does this not bug anyone but me? Why not just go home or call 911? As far as my opinion goes, I haven't formed one yet. Firmly planted :fence: trying to figure it out.
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BBM.

Where did you find this information?

Also this is not directed at you necessarily, but can anyone point me to a source for Trayvon going up onto someone's porch?
 
vlpate said:
What about the other cases where people who walked out after stand your ground was determined with little more than a police report. At least 50 cases. Did the police know them too? Call the law problematic, call the cops inept, but saying just because they knew him they let him go doesn't wash with the statistics.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to see what type of investigation was done? How many were inside a home or business compared to on the streets? Do you have any links? I would love to read up on them?
 
It seems to me that part of the investigation should have included what happened prior to the shooting. Someone actively pursues another person, tracks them down, GZ then tells dispatch he lost him and was told he did not have to pursue wait for LE, GZ says "okay" then disregards what he has been told and continues to look for TM. It was not his job, it was never his responsibility, he was only ever told to watch and report. No one ever asked GZ to take the law into his own hands but that is exactly what he did. The minute GZ decided to pursue the "stand your ground" law should not have been applied. GZ did not stand his ground he moved into the direction of a confrontation with, what we now know was an innocent person.

If this law stands it needs a little fine tuning because it is being stretched to it's broadest sense here. GZ had nothing to justify pursing TM. No evidence, no reason. Had GZ stayed in his car it never would have happened. Had he listened to LE it never would have happened. Had he left his gun in the car this never would have happened. GZ made a lot of bad choices that day.

How ironic that he feels pre-judged today when that is exactly what he did to his victim. Anyone feel that the police report that was released is lacking in detail of how the shooting actually occurred. Just observations from an LE writing the report. jmo
 
Belinda said:
I think Trayvon was afraid of leading the strange man home to his little brother and so didn't run home on purpose. He knew this strange man was following him. He was probably trying to protect his brother.
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I think that's rather far-fetched.
 
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