IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

TGIRecovered · Aug 7, 2012

ROM828 said:
I won't deny that someone might place something in a septic tank....and I also don't know how many posters are from Iowa, but typically the only way a home is on a septic system is if they are NOT plumbed into the city's system.....which typically applies to homes that are outside city limits.

IMO and FWIW- I would be shocked if the homes around the lake were on septic systems.

You are correct about plumbing inside city limits, but there could be old tanks which were not dug up from before the area was plumbed. We have had cases before involving abandoned tanks which few people realized were ever there. MOO

I am still keeping our creeper camper and other "off the grid" RSOs in mind. Camping areas have septic tanks. Old vacant farm houses do too.

The immediate area of the lake has been pretty thoroughly searched, but I'm thinking we need to be looking for places not so far away which could be used to hide two bodies. The odds of the girls being alive are not good. (Even Elisabeth Smart, who was found alive, was taken by a drifter who lived in the woods.)

Thinkzerz · Aug 7, 2012

LE must be following something. Don't forget LE got a subpoena for some videos of Misty and her mother. I just think LE is being very quite for a reason. Although I am having doubts to whether the girls are alive or not.

hollyblue · Aug 7, 2012

TGIRecovered said:
You are correct about plumbing inside city limits, but there could be old tanks which were not dug up from before the area was plumbed. We have had cases before involving abandoned tanks which few people realized were ever there. MOO

I am still keeping our creeper camper and other "off the grid" RSOs in mind. Camping areas have septic tanks. Old vacant farm houses do too.

The immediate area of the lake has been pretty thoroughly searched, but I'm thinking we need to be looking for places not so far away which could be used to hide two bodies. The odds of the girls being alive are not good. (Even Elisabeth Smart, who was found alive, was taken by a drifter who lived in the woods.)

I responded to a post of yours on the wrong thread (scanner) :blushing:

In response to the houseless garage property by the trail and well/septic:

Good point and hope Ollipop would be able to possibly answer. I have always "assumed" the property with only a garage had once had a house on it and it was torn down. Burned, let go beyond repair, etc., but much older and maybe an old farmhouse, but one from long ago. If so, it probably had a septic system.

Anyone think there have been searchers that have inquired to LE about organizing another search and it was poo pooed? ie; LE knowing the girls are not in area for some reason? Just speculating if DM had friends who hit the road back to their roots or different location knowing he would rat out.....or someone who wants to stay under the radar with drug use/selling, etc.? Haven't seen it mentioned, but I'd like to know if the meth is local or if the Mexican meth is a common source in the area now? Many Mexican farm workers in the area? Work at Tyson's?
imo

palaminodee · Aug 7, 2012

fyi...
BOATING
There are seven boat ramps on the lake and one on Coralville Lake. Pontoons, motorboats, canoes and paddle boats are available for rent near the beach.
BBM

Lake McBride about 45min south of waterloo rents paddleboats

http://www.stateparks.com/lake_macbride.html

I've been there, they are the little boats you pedal like a bike

Sunlight · Aug 7, 2012

Who actually laid eyes on the girls the morning they disappeared? E was seen the night before. Did HC and DC see E that morning? Is the timestamp correct on the surveillance video? Just throwing stuff around in my mind.

cindersoot · Aug 7, 2012

Does anyone think it's kinda strange that in the beginning before any white vans were suspicious, that gramma mentioned a van abducting the girls?

Sunlight · Aug 7, 2012

cindersoot said:
Does anyone think it's kinda strange that in the beginning before any white vans were suspicious, that gramma mentioned a van abducting the girls?

I've heard of the white van stuff before...I think that it is a valid chain of thought to consider that a van could transport the girls and the bikes by anyone, so gma probably thought that too. Remember, she said she didn't think they would have biked to the lake. MOO

otto · Aug 7, 2012

cindersoot said:
Right now, I don't think it's matters which way they left on the path, which path, where the bikes were placed. What needs to be concentrated on is who did it.

From my perspective, the only clue regarding who did this can be found in determining what happened to the girls ... whether the bikes were staged or placed there by the girls and which direction they went afterwards. Once their steps can be traced, police can possibly determine who was in that exact area and then identify possible abductors. Only then can the girls be found.

I absolutely do not believe that the family has any knowledge about the abduction of their children, so the only way to find them is to understand thei last movements of the children.

nervous_nellie · Aug 7, 2012

the girls going willingly with a "friend turned perp" seems to be the easiest way for them to vanish in the span of a few minutes and no one noticing anything out of place...or some really strange unheard of accident and they just need to search more thoroughly...

roseofsharon · Aug 7, 2012

otto said:
From my perspective, the only clue regarding who did this can be found in determining what happened to the girls ... whether the bikes were staged or placed there by the girls and which direction they went afterwards. Once their steps can be traced, police can possibly determine who was in that exact area and then identify possible abductors. Only then can the girls be found.

I absolutely do not believe that the family has any knowledge about the abduction of their children, so the only way to find them is to understand thei last movements of the children.

The one thing we can be sure of is that most businesses in the vicinity of Brovan Blvd. were there and staffed. We know the girls were in the Leddermans parking lot because Grandma saw them there, but what other parking lots did they ride into and who saw them, especially during the lunch hour. IMO

Copper · Aug 7, 2012

nervous_nellie said:
the girls going willingly with a "friend turned perp" seems to be the easiest way for them to vanish in the span of a few minutes and no one noticing anything out of place...or some really strange unheard of accident and they just need to search more thoroughly...

THANK YOU! That really helps me.

Here is how I see it going down.

Perp befriends the girl(s). Perp learns the girls have some free time on Friday and invites them to the lake. Girls and perp meet at the lake. Girls and perp are out of sight when TG rides by. Time is getting short and girls need to get home so perp offers to drive girls and bikes home. Perp gets girls and bikes into his van and the abduction officially happens. Perp takes girls and bikes home and secures girls. Perps returns to the lake and stages the bikes and purse.

Thoughts?

otto · Aug 7, 2012

cindersoot said:
Does anyone think it's kinda strange that in the beginning before any white vans were suspicious, that gramma mentioned a van abducting the girls?

The grandmother had a theory that the girls and their bikes were adbucted away from Meyers Lake and that the bikes were then put at the lake by the perp. This theory requires a vehicle that can be used to quickly take two bikes and two girls off the street ... that means a van. Afterwards, police began looking at vans, including the white van that was at the gas station and which was completely unrelated to the disappearance of the girls.

I don't think it's strange that police took the grandmother's concerns seriously and investigated vans that were in the area on the day of the abduction.

otto · Aug 7, 2012

Copper said:
THANK YOU! That really helps me.

Here is how I see it going down.

Perp befriends the girl(s). Perp learns the girls have some free time on Friday and invites them to the lake. Girls and perp meet at the lake. Girls and perp are out of sight when TG rides by. Time is getting short and girls need to get home so perp offers to drive girls and bikes home. Perp gets girls and bikes into his van and the abduction officially happens. Perp takes girls and bikes home and secures girls. Perps returns to the lake and stages the bikes and purse.

Thoughts?

I like the grandmother's theory as it keep everything very simple and doesn't add any new elements. The girls could have been abducted while riding their bikes at any one of the intersections betweeen the Collin's home and Meyers Lake. As soon as they were abducted, the perps may have wanted to put the bikes in a location that would delay the investigation ... one option is to drive down Maiden Lane and leave the bikes next to the gate along Evansdale Trail (requires familiarity with the area, but doesn't necessarily mean that perp lives in Evansdale). That would obviously lead everyone to believe that the girls may have drowned, tie up valuable police resources and delay any sort of "abduction" search for at least a week. Leaving the bikes at that location would only take a few minutes and it could be done without being seen by anyone. In the event that the girls were quickly discovered missing and a road block was set up ... the perps had solved that problem by staging the bikes.

Sunlight · Aug 7, 2012

otto said:
I like the grandmother's theory as it keep everything very simple and doesn't add any new elements. The girls could have been abducted while riding their bikes at any one of the intersections betweeen the Collin's home and Meyers Lake. As soon as they were abducted, the perps may have wanted to put the bikes in a location that would delay the investigation ... one option is to drive down Maiden Lane and leave the bikes next to the gate along Evansdale Trail (requires familiarity with the area, but doesn't necessarily mean that perp lives in Evansdale). That would obviously lead everyone to believe that the girls may have drowned, tie up valuable police resources and delay any sort of "abduction" search for at least a week. Leaving the bikes at that location would only take a few minutes and it could be done without being seen by anyone. In the event that the girls were quickly discovered missing and a road block was set up ... the perps had solved that problem by staging the bikes.

What about the scent trail of the dogs?

nervous_nellie · Aug 7, 2012

Copper said:
THANK YOU! That really helps me.

Here is how I see it going down.

Perp befriends the girl(s). Perp learns the girls have some free time on Friday and invites them to the lake. Girls and perp meet at the lake. Girls and perp are out of sight when TG rides by. Time is getting short and girls need to get home so perp offers to drive girls and bikes home. Perp gets girls and bikes into his van and the abduction officially happens. Perp takes girls and bikes home and secures girls. Perps returns to the lake and stages the bikes and purse.

Thoughts?

or they met up with someone that they thought was safe because they had been around them before - someone old enough to drive who offered to drive them home because they were going to get in trouble for being late, but couldnt fit the bikes in the vehicle and promised to come back and get the bikes for them. could be a friend of the parents from church etc. could have told them that hc was sick and that they needed to hurry?? idk... wish i felt more confident that they were alive - but i am really losing hope.

Sunlight · Aug 7, 2012

Okay, here's a thought..what if they were at the lake and someone they had met before somewhere (like a park or at that lake) appeared, and they had a little conversation about what time it was (that person having a watch or something), and the person said something like, oh you are gonna get in trouble if you have to be back by *advertiser censored*..I'll drive you home and come back and get your bikes for you later.. MOO

nervous_nellie · Aug 7, 2012

i dont think a perp would stage a scene , heck they usually dont even bother to hid the victim if its a stranger/random perp. which in my mind means that the perp would have to be someone who would be suspected right away when they vanished family/friend of family. and even at that i think they would have been more likely to dump the bikes where they didnt think they would be found, maybe never found... staging things seems to eventually provide enough evidence to get the perp busted...

otto · Aug 7, 2012

Sunlight said:
What about the scent trail of the dogs?

I posted three links yesterday relating to the dogs. Brouseau said that the dogs tracked each girl's scent individually to the Maiden Lane tree area. The FBI and Police said that the dogs indicated that the girl's scent had been in the area, but added that no one at the lake had seen the girls so they couldn't be certain that the girls were there. Since the dogs are tracking a scent associated with objects belonging to the girls, the dogs could have picked up on the fact that the bikes and purse belonged to the girls. If the dogs tracked from the bikes/gate to the trees, that could mean that the girls walked from the bikes/gate to the trees, or that their bikes were taken from Maiden Lane to the gate.

nervous_nellie · Aug 7, 2012

Sunlight said:
Okay, here's a thought..what if they were at the lake and someone they had met before somewhere (like a park or at that lake) appeared, and they had a little conversation about what time it was (that person having a watch or something), and the person said something like, oh you are gonna get in trouble if you have to be back by *advertiser censored*..I'll drive you home and come back and get your bikes for you later.. MOO

right... and this person could have talked them into staying out later because they would talk to their parents and clear it all up for them... could be that this has happened before for them?? sorta like "oh, mom wont be mad if were with so-n-so cause that is moms friend - who may have kids the same age maybe even friends with the girls???

Sunlight · Aug 7, 2012

If the perp(s) placed the bikes where they were found, there should be prints on the bikes or on the purse...

IA IA - Elizabeth Collins, 8, & Lyric Cook, 10, Evansdale, 13 July 2012 - #13

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