09-17-2011 Topaz Mountain Search Yields Charred Wood and Decomp

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LadyL said:
which parent would you consider to be of above-average intelligence?

:floorlaugh:
Click to expand...

well....perhaps at least of average would be TN......more on the extensive knowledge of deception gained by experience kind of intelligence I guess.....
 
Found something regarding another place he has likely hunted for rocks.

Per this quote:

Friends of his daughter told him Wednesday that during the summer of 2009, Susan and Josh Powell had camped in the same general area where the remains were found.

"They had gone out to look for the geode beds, which I believe are the other direction. They made a wrong turn and they ended up in this (Topaz Mountain) area," Cox said.
Click to expand...

http://m.ksl.com/story.php?sid=17254003

Dugway Geode Beds
Types of rocks/minerals: Geodes
Location: Take the Pony Express Road off of Utah Highway 36 near Vernon
Comments: Most good specimens have already been collected from the surface, but some digging will reveal a plethora of good geodes. Be careful never to undermine the walls of a hole, as cave-ins represent a significant threat. Geodes may contain quartz crystals and are quite intricate and beautiful.
Click to expand...

http://www.utah.com/hike/rock_hounding_areas.htm

Another advantage to this location is that digging is required to find good geodes, thus would not look out of the ordinary if he was seen digging. Also, it is on the way to Topaz, so he could have gone there first without the body and prepared the grave. Then he could have gone to Topaz, dug up the body, and then driven back to Dugway with the body and buried her newly.

Here is where it is on the map in relation to Topaz Mntn. The purple line is the Google Map drive route from Washington. Point B is Dugway Geode Beds. Point C is Topaz Mntn. It is a 22 mile drive to Topaz from Dugway, and it takes 1 hour and 26 minutes to drive there:

mapforjp.jpg


I highly recommend this area be searched by LE. MOO.
 
Lera213 said:
Why do I have a gut feeling he disposed of Susan at Baker's hot springs! Over time what would this do to the bones?
Click to expand...

Really? How far is Baker's Hot Springs from Topaz Mountain? Or from their home? I suppose those red hands could have been caused by the hot water.....
 
[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=topaz+mountain,+utah&daddr=Baker+Hot+Springs,+Juab,+Utah&hl=en&ll=39.620499,-112.909241&spn=1.199549,2.705383&sll=39.621505,-112.91043&sspn=0.299888,0.676346&geocode=Fc7qXQIdOC5C-Slnx4oRVu-ygDHjebde5mHrTw%3BFTZxXAId3uNH-SlhAyWk7SmzgDGniXL9MXGPEg&vpsrc=6&mra=ls&t=h&z=9"]Topaz Mountain to Baker Hot Springs - Google Maps[/ame]

Says 30 miles between Baker Hot Springs and Topaz Mountain. 1 hour drive time.

ETA: A is Topaz Mountain, B is Baker Hot Springs.
 
Oriah said:
<Okay good, I feel less crazy... for screaming at the computer and TV.... "ELEVEN?!?!?!? You brought ELEVEN different dogs out there?? That is absurd! How did you get Eleven HRD dogs? Where did they come from? Why aren't they in Oregon or Texas?!?!"
Click to expand...
>

*sigh*

Ok, here's the thing.
Many dog teams (LE, private, and volunteer) train their dogs using their own guidelines- or alternate guidelines used by a variety of different groups/agencies. Standardization is a bit of an issue, to say the least.

I have my own opinions on this, which are probably not helpful, lol.
But in a nutshell, I am partial to FEMA and NASAR regs.

http://www.fema.gov/pdf/emergency/nims/508-8_search_and_rescue_resources.pdf

http://nasarcanine.org/NASAR_Canine_Certification_Programs_Revised_2010 for submittal.pdf

MOO of course.[/QUOTE]

I have a headache, I'm in a bad mood, and am tired of tap dancing around this issue, so I'm going to lay it all out. Not all certifications are created equally. Believe it or not, you (yes, any of you) could find a dog, teach it how to sniff out dead something, write up a certification program, get a couple of friends together to help "test" your dog, and voila, you're dog is now "certified". There are ALOT of certifications out there that are not much more than just that.
NASAR and FEMA are reliable cert programs. There are different levels in them, the higher you certify, the better I feel about the dog and their skills. If a dog has neither NASAR or FEMA certifications at any level, but some other random certification, it is often because they couldn't make the cut and pass the NASAR or FEMA certs. The minimum NASAR cert is just that, a bare minimum. If a dog can't meet that criteria they have no business being in the field. In my opinion some of the NASAR certs need to be toughened up as their trailing test for example does not depict the reality of older trails (by that I may 3-7 days), but it sure as heck is better than a lot of these so called "certifications".
Sorry for the rant. I'm off to train now.
 
Sarx, I think that's what my friend was getting at when she spoke with me. She found it hard to believe there'd be that many properly certified HRD dogs at Utah's disposal. She figured it was probably random Joe-Schmo certified dogs, also cross-trained for other things. And in her opinion, the cross-trained dogs are often less reliable.
 
Search and rescue volunteers are walking side by side, driving four wheelers and making even more plans to continue the search for Susan Powell.

The volunteers are expanding the search along another side of Topaz Mountain.

"When you put out the call for help you'll get the help you want..these folks are brining out trailers and they're bringing out snacks and water," said Lt. Bill Merritt of the West Valley Police Department.

The volunteers continue working long hours in the desert to search for answers.

"They're also holding hand held GPS units and at the end of the day we'll go and down loan those and we can put those right onto a map to show where it is that everybody has been," said Merritt.

Their job is to mark suspicious areas for a cadaver dog to examine.


http://www.abc4.com/content/news/to...=20&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Earlier articles said they would only use trained LE, and no volunteers.

And that they wouldn't be using cadaver dogs.

Oh wth, they also said they were cutting back the effort and taking a 2 day break.


I give up.
 
DiscoveryID Discovery: ID
Susan Powell's husband believes she may have run off with Steven Koecher. See Steven's story @8p EP. #Disappeared
30 minutes ago

@DiscoveryID Discovery: ID
Investigators continue to search for missing woman Susan Powell http://ow.ly/6xR48 #Disappeared
36 minutes ago

http://twitter.com/#!/DiscoveryID

ETA: hmmmm.... that article they're linking to on Susan is from back on Sept 13.
 
HatesSociopaths said:
Can anyone point me to an earlier similar case with these factors:

1. A spontaneous murder committed in a disorganized fashion, with a dubious story, conflicting statements, etc.
2. A parent or other family member very involved in the subsequent cover-up of the murder. This person will be of above average intelligence and the "mind" of the cover-up operation. Their involvement will include the hiding of the body, the subsequent manufactured story, presenting alternate theories, bashing the victim, etc.

TIA.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, this scenario is the same as the Haliegh Cummings case. JMO
 
And this article says it's officers, not volunteers:

Search and rescue teams from five counties have joined West Valley City police department investigators in combing the rugged terrain on horseback and ATVs, police Sgt. Mike Powell said. A Utah Department of Public Safety helicopter was also being used.

Between 75 and 100 officers were involved in the search, which is expected to last through Wednesday, Powell said. The expanded effort near Topaz Mountain would allow police to cover a much wider area of the vast desert in a shorter time, he said.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/130161398.html


ETA:

Police spokesman Mike Powell, who isn't related to Susan and her family, said on Monday that no one should confuse the use of the so-called cadaver dogs with a declaration by police that the investigation has been classified as a homicide.

"This is still an active missing persons investigation," he said. "We're searching for anything that might be viewed as or utilized as evidence. (The dogs) are just one resource."
 
Oiy.
I retract my earlier statement that sarx is better at PR. I should have said just more honest, lol.

Seriously- WHAT in the heck is going on here? Is it poor reporting? Poor understanding of HRD dogs? Poorly qualified dogs? All?? (my personal opinion- fwiw- it's ALL.)

Gah- I feel so badly for Susan's family and loved ones. No one should be jerked around like this. As if they aren't dealing with enough pain to begin with. :(

Ok- I am now off rant also.
 
Lera213 said:
Why do I have a gut feeling he disposed of Susan at Baker's hot springs! Over time what would this do to the bones?
Click to expand...

Can you tell us where "Baker's Hot Springs" are? I've never heard of that (and I'm a local).
 
I hope the media is close to SP/JP, I would like to see some reactions......JMOO
 
I posted a map above on this page showing where Baker Hot Springs is in relation to Topaz Mountain.
 
laytonian said:
Can you tell us where "Baker's Hot Springs" are? I've never heard of that (and I'm a local).
Click to expand...
Baker Hot Springs
http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/bakerspring.html

Also Topaz Mountain:
http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/topaz.html
Above links have directions but not actual maps.

Interesting ATV maps (some paths are designated as an ATV can pass a regular vehicle easily)
http://www.utahoutdooractivities.com/atv.html

Mapquest map showing Topaz Mountain and Baker Hot Springs, Wendover, UT. (Please correct me if this is wrong)
http://mapq.st/ng01W7
 
I think it's both officers AND volunteers. Volunteering officers???

I think we have trained SAR and LE who are volunteering for the search.

They aren't there being paid to do it.
Make sense?

BeanE said:
And this article says it's officers, not volunteers:

Search and rescue teams from five counties have joined West Valley City police department investigators in combing the rugged terrain on horseback and ATVs, police Sgt. Mike Powell said. A Utah Department of Public Safety helicopter was also being used.

Between 75 and 100 officers were involved in the search, which is expected to last through Wednesday, Powell said. The expanded effort near Topaz Mountain would allow police to cover a much wider area of the vast desert in a shorter time, he said.

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/130161398.html


ETA:

Police spokesman Mike Powell, who isn't related to Susan and her family, said on Monday that no one should confuse the use of the so-called cadaver dogs with a declaration by police that the investigation has been classified as a homicide.

"This is still an active missing persons investigation," he said. "We're searching for anything that might be viewed as or utilized as evidence. (The dogs) are just one resource."
Click to expand...
 
This comment by one of Susan's friends is interesting to me and I looked further into it:

Friends of his daughter told him Wednesday that during the summer of 2009, Susan and Josh Powell had camped in the same general area where the remains were found.

"They had gone out to look for the geode beds, which I believe are the other direction. They made a wrong turn and they ended up in this (Topaz Mountain) area," Cox said.
Click to expand...

http://m.ksl.com/story.php?sid=17254003

Starting from the hypothesis that JP wanted to go to Topaz Mntn on that trip with Susan, I examined the likelihood of taking a wrong turn on the way to Dugway Geode Beds:

topazmapturn.jpg


JP and Susan would have been following the yellow line above to reach Dugway from their home in WVC. The red arrow indicates the left turn one would take to head west 4 miles to Topaz Mntn, seen at left.

Here is a closer look at the turn:

topazcorner.jpg


As you can see, it's a 90 degree angle and a turn one would take to reach Topaz Mntn. Had they kept going straight, they would have reached Dugway in another 22 miles.

While they indeed made a wrong turn, it's suspicious because all you have to do to get to Dugway is stay on Simpson Springs-Callao Rd (the yellow arrow.) No other turns are necessary. Also, it is only 4 miles of wrong direction. It would be easy to get back to Simpson Springs-Callao Rd and finish the rest of the drive.

Also of note, this was in the summer of 2009, the year of her disappearance. Reportedly, they were on the brink of divorce, JP had already threatened Susan's life if she took the kids, they were in counselling, Susan had written in her diary to suspect JP if she disappeared, etc.

The value of the trip to JP is that he could have dug the grave, a very difficult task in the middle of the night in sub-freezing weather. The value of telling people they went to Dugway is that no one would know they went to Topaz.

MOO.
 
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