British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

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Steely Dan said:
That's the main problem with this case. The reporting of it. Since the vast majority of us don't speak Italian and weren't at the trial news reports are all we have.

This is why I defer to the British press more. They have less of an axe to grind. They are looking for justice. I believe that if they thought she didn't do it they would have defended her. They weren't reporting, IMO, about her just because they were in cahoots with the Italian justice system.
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If, as many believe, the U.S. press has gone astray in its zeal to defend the "home team" girl, why would we assume the British press is any less zealous about securing what it believes to be justice for a murdered compatriot?

I'm not saying the media in either country is lying, just that members may have crossed the line between reportage and advocacy.
 
claudicici said:
...I also wonder if americans would doubt the italian system so much if Amanda Knox was a black american male...I doubt it.
...I also think if the same thing would have happened in the states and Amanda's victim would have been a pretty american girl the same people that are speaking out against the italian justice system now would put Amanda on the same level as casey anthony...they would want her to "fry"...
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I cannot speak for Americans as I am Canadian and you can believe I would be different if it was a Black male. I would probably be leaning even more to an unfair system based on how Blacks have been treated in many countries, in and outside of the law. We all hold our own biases and for me that is probably one I would have to admit.

However, in this case not sure any of that applies.

My opinion on the black males on this case are:

Amanda seems to have been coerced into saying derogatory statments about Patrick Lamumba, I am not convinced she ever believed he was involved.

The other black male, Rudy, left his semen in the victim, and admitted his presence at the crime scene and sex with the victim.
 
jjenny said:
What physical evidence was there against Scott Peterson? There is not always clear forensic evidence to show that someone did what that someone is accused of.
Scott Peterson is sitting on death row.
You can say that behavior of the defendant doesn't have anything to do with anything, but that just isn't so.
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But there is behavior and then there is behavior.

I hope SP was found guilty because of things he did that related to the crime, not because he appeared to some people to be insufficiently grief-stricken.
 
jjenny said:
Have you ever heard of hair transfer? Hair isn't really a "clear forensic evidence," is it?
I am not sure why would you be convinced by hair and not by DNA evidence prosecution has presented in the Knox case? And the prosecution did present DNA evidence even though defense argued it is not convincing. Like the dead girl's DNA prosecution says was on the knife. I fail to see why hair would be more convincing to you.
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Because we know the pliers belonged to SP and we don't know whether that knife was used in the murder.
 
I wish we could get our hands on these Supreme court decisions that seemed to be contradictory that Amanda's parents referred to on LKL.
Maybe we will hear more about this as the appeal gets going.
 
Steely Dan said:
That's the main problem with this case. The reporting of it. Since the vast majority of us don't speak Italian and weren't at the trial news reports are all we have.

This is why I defer to the British press more. They have less of an axe to grind. They are looking for justice. I believe that if they thought she didn't do it they would have defended her. They weren't reporting, IMO, about her just because they were in cahoots with the Italian justice system.
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I am not sure about Austrailia but I think the media- American, Italian, British and Canadian butchered Amanda ''Foxy Knoxy". After that it appears it was lights out no matter how her lawyers tried to present facts they were never able to overcome the images created by the media.

Buying underwear and being kissed a few times while you stare blankly into space just doesn't make you a murderer.
 
Meredith Kercher, of course, must have sexually assaulted herself, crushed her own windpipe and slashed her own throat, since all three defendants insist they're innocent.

It's interesting that in Europe this case is referred to as the Meredith Kercher case, but in the US it's called the Amanda Knox case.
 
Brwnigirl said:
I beg to differ Isabella. In my opinion, some of the rags in the UK are comparable to some in the US and just as bad. Paparazzi in England are well known to stalk celebrities, politicians and the Royals including wiretapping them.
Princess Diana was stalked..day and night.
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I disagree sorry. Yes they was tapped a while back but i have never ever seen anything here like i have seen on Tmz.

As for Diana IMO she wanted a lot of the attention but pretended she didnt and its funny that a lot of the times for eg she would make an unannounced visit somewhere at 3 am and the papers just happened to be there waiting.
 
Brwnigirl said:
So if a woman goes to a police station and says "I was raped" and after the police interview she is then jailed or worse because she is considered the guilty party we cannot criticize that, because we should respect the ways of the country?
I know that is extreme but my problem with accepting practices carte blanche is that it is women that are treated as second class citizens in other parts of the world. Not saying that happened here, just making a point.

The saying "When in Rome do as Romans do" was not referring to legal procedures in foreign countries.
I don't care if someone is from Timbucktoo, you deserve to be treated with fairness whether you are in Timbucktoo or Italy or anywhere else.
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My personal knowledge of the Italians is that they treat women like Queens. Italy is NOT Afghanistan!
 
Tizzle said:
Given the same evidence and circumstances, NO, I'm sorry, I wouldn't want her or anyone to "fry".

I gotta say, I'm getting kind of tired of the accusations of racism and racist remarks. That is so far outside of what my beliefs are. SOME Americans might not doubt the Italian system if the person were a black american man, but not me or anyone I surround myself with. I would be just as upset, regardless of the individuals heritage, as many would. Not ALL Americans are racist, just like not ALL Italians are. And further, racism is not just an American problem, it's a problem WORLDwide. JMO
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Personally i think a lot of the remarks being chucked at the Italians and the way they do thinks are racist. Because they do things different to how you doesnt make them wrong.
 
SleuthyGal said:
Here are a couple examples of what gets all twisted around.

1. The police see that Patrick Lumumba & AK texted each other and because AK texted, "Okay see you later" when told she didn't have to come to work, they think that means she will see him later...like at the house...to commit murder. So they grill her over and over and over. "Why are you protecting him?" "Admit that he was there!" "If you were to IMAGINE what might have happened, what in your imagination do you think could have happened during such a crime?" So it's not that AK thought she'd throw P.L. under the bus...the polizia TOLD HER he must be involved then had her spin a story in her imagination of what might have happened after 14 hrs of interrogation. So she used his name because they told her he was there! Now it becomes a 'fact' where AK has 'confessed and fingered P.L.' welll....not really, but that's how they spun it. She recanted that statement. But here the rest of the world is repeating this story without any of the context and as if this edited version is the gospel truth. I want the truth exactly as it went down!

2. AK was said to be "doing splits and cartwheels" in the police station. But WHY? WHY was she doing this? I heard that the police saw her stretching her back out after sitting for hours waiting for R.S. to be released after questioning. Supposedly one of the polizia asked her if she was a gymnast and/or if she could do a cartwheel and she said yes, she could. Then she did one to show she could. Well if that's how it really went down then she wasn't "turning cartwheels" the way the media portrays it, as if she was in a gleeful/joking mood. Sure it was stupid to do it, but if she was asked by the police to do it or asked if she *could* do it, then she was answering them back by demonstrating. Stupid? Absolutely, yes. Proof of her being a murderer or a cold-blooded killer? Nope!

This is why we need to get the entire truth out of exactly how each of these things went down. I'm not saying she's innocent (I surely don't know), but what I am saying is there is more rumor being spun than cold/hard facts. If I'm going to respect this verdict then I need to learn about each facet of the evidence and of the REAL story behind each of these 'tales' told. I want the entire context! And you all should want that too!

I want the scientific DNA stuff, I want each piece of evidence in a list, I want to know the story behind each behavior that the prosecution points to as hinky or as some proof of her guilt. I want to see for myself what the real deal is! Right now all I see are rumors flying to and fro. Not good enough!
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I am sorry but firstly you dont know if the police said that to her at all unless you was in the room with her which i assume you wasnt. Secondly she actually said she SAW Patrick killing Meredith. That she has to cover her ears to avoid Merediths screams..which is not how you put it at all.

As for the cartwheels i believe she did those while with her friends at the police station and not even being questioned so again im not sure how thats the police fault.
 
SleuthyGal said:
Did they hear it all? You're making an assumption they heard it all and not just what the prosecution posited. I can't assume anything. Several media outlets/newspapers reported that the defense was barred from challenging the DNA evidence by bringing their own expert witnesses to the stand. If that's true...well...that would not be a fair trial in my mind.
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Do you have a link for that? Thanks.
 
Tizzle said:
I totally understand all of this and that it was a misunderstanding between myself and other posters about "discarded phones". Pretty basic, actually, but my bad. Anyway, earlier reports said AK & RS exchanged numerous texts right after the murder, now it is said that their phones were turned off....why'd the story change? It's only not ok to change stories when Amanda does it?

Also, Amanda's parents were on Larry King tonight and said that there actually is evidence that was submitted in court of computer activity on RS' computer that night. Yet another conflicting detail because I found reports where it's said that their hard drives were fried by forensic "experts". I suppose it would be easy to verify if we had a list of evidence submitted in court. I don't think her parents would lie about a detail that would be easily verified. So, it sounds to me like there actually was some movie watching going on at RS'. Apparently, also submitted as evidence was testimony of eye witnesses placing her at RS' that evening, without a doubt. Her parents also say RS verified AK's whereabouts of the evening in question. So why has it been said that he wasn't sure where she was? Do we know for a fact that he actually said this? Or is it just another careless leak? More details that can be easily verified by court documents, I suppose. We've heard there was activity, no activity and that they fried the drives. We've heard she was there and she wasn't. We've heard he said she was there and she wasn't. Which is it?

links about fried hard drives...

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...nox-cold-blooded-killer-or-angel-faced-victim
Police also seized the hard drives from computers belonging to the victim, Amanda and Raffaele and in their attempt to examine the contents of the hard drives. Unfortunately computer forensic experts hooked them up in the wrong manner, therefore frying the circuit boards and rendering the drives unreadable.

and this one...

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/138524.asp
Police had claimed Knox and Guede called each other on their cellphones before and after the murder. Guede didn't have a cellphone with him that night, his lawyer revealed.
6. Amanda's computer was damaged in police custody, so they can't evaluate her hard drive.

Seems to me, the biggest problem with this case were the leaks of bad information and bad reporting by the ill informed, throughout. It's just really sad to see people basing their opinions on gossip, basically. Justice was served, but not when AK & RS were found guilty. JMO
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Amanda Knox parents are being sued by the Italian Police for slander.

Maybe they should have asked them on the tv for proof that the computer showed they was at home that night and that he didnt say she wasnt at home because court evidence says different.

My personal opinion is that her parents think they can say what they want and people will believe them because its like an old boys network...the parents have to be right and the Italalians are the bad old boys./
 
Nova said:
If, as many believe, the U.S. press has gone astray in its zeal to defend the "home team" girl, why would we assume the British press is any less zealous about securing what it believes to be justice for a murdered compatriot?

I'm not saying the media in either country is lying, just that members may have crossed the line between reportage and advocacy.
Click to expand...

We just want justice for Merediths brutal murder. If an innocent person was convicted we wouldnt be getting justice for her family so NO we arent satisfied with just anyone getting convicted.

From all the sites i have read here tho and all the papers comments section i can say the vast majority of this country think the correct verdict was made.
 
Brwnigirl said:
I cannot speak for Americans as I am Canadian and you can believe I would be different if it was a Black male. I would probably be leaning even more to an unfair system based on how Blacks have been treated in many countries, in and outside of the law. We all hold our own biases and for me that is probably one I would have to admit.

However, in this case not sure any of that applies.

My opinion on the black males on this case are:

Amanda seems to have been coerced into saying derogatory statments about Patrick Lamumba, I am not convinced she ever believed he was involved.

The other black male, Rudy, left his semen in the victim, and admitted his presence at the crime scene and sex with the victim.
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She said she saw him killing her. I fail to see how anyone can blame the cops for what came out of Amandas mouth. She changed her story several times including one time when she was in the court room. That time she tried to frame her bf.

Its funny because its like some seem to think she was like a puppet being told what to say about the cops whereas i see her a lieing manipulative murdering witch who will frame anyone if it means she herself gets out of it.
 
Brwnigirl said:
I am not sure about Austrailia but I think the media- American, Italian, British and Canadian butchered Amanda ''Foxy Knoxy". After that it appears it was lights out no matter how her lawyers tried to present facts they were never able to overcome the images created by the media.

Buying underwear and being kissed a few times while you stare blankly into space just doesn't make you a murderer.
Click to expand...

No but buying underwear and discussing having sex in a shop later when your flat mate has just been murdered isnt normal.
 
Trino said:
Meredith Kercher, of course, must have sexually assaulted herself, crushed her own windpipe and slashed her own throat, since all three defendants insist they're innocent.

It's interesting that in Europe this case is referred to as the Meredith Kercher case, but in the US it's called the Amanda Knox case.
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I actually get the impression some people think "poor" Amanda is the victim and not Meredith.
 
Somebody linked this article before; http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/07/knox.trial.analysis/index.html

It has some great stuff that answers some of my questions and some of the questions that have been posed by others. Here's some stuff. The article has too much to post here. It also has some things I find annoying.

"The prosecution did not present enough evidence for an impartial jury to conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Ms. Knox was guilty," Sen. Maria Cantwell, a Democrat, said in a written statement.


That's an opinion, an opinion less significant than the jurors. She can't know that the jury wasn't impartial because of her interpretation of the evidence. I wonder if she can recite all of the evidence brought into court by the prosecution and defense?

Prosecutors say a large kitchen knife belonging to Sollecito struck the fatal blow, arguing that Kercher's DNA was on the blade and Knox's was on the handle. The defense says the DNA samples are too small to be conclusive.

I think this is the knife a lot of people refer to as not being able to make the stab wounds. Someone mentioned earlier that the death was caused by a slice across the neck. I think this is the knife they say could've done that. IMO, that's irrelevant to stab wounds, this knife most likely delivered the fatal cut.

Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini told CNN the strongest evidence against Knox and Sollecito was the fake break-in he says they staged to cover up their role in the crime.

"In whose interest is it to fake a robbery? Only the people who lived there," he said.

I'm not sure it's the strongest evidence but it's up there.

Kercher died around midnight; it was more than 12 hours before Sollecito phoned police to report a break-in.

The call, which plays out at the end of the prosecution video, is full of contradictions, with Sollecito first saying there had been a robbery, but then minutes later saying nothing was stolen.

In fact, money was missing from Kercher's purse, but it was in the blood-spattered room with her. During the call, Sollecito doesn't admit to having entered the room.

When Knox was detained days after the killing, she apparently confessed, but later said her statement was made under "pressures of shock, stress and exhaustion." She also said police had struck her while she was in custody.

Knox also apparently knew the position of Kercher's body, even though she did not admit to having been in the room.

________________________________

Her story of where she was that night changed several times. When she was accusing Lumumba, she said she was in the house, covering her ears so as not to hear Kercher's screams.

She later said she spent the night at Sollecito's house, but he said he could not remember if she was there all night.

_______________________________

There will be answers to at least some of the questions the jurors left open. The judge must file their "motivation," explaining how they reached their verdict, within 90 days of their announcement. The final vote on the charges will remain secret.

That'll be interesting.

The U.S. State Department said Monday it has no indication that Knox is not being treated fairly under Italian law.
 
Isabella said:
I am sorry but firstly you dont know if the police said that to her at all unless you was in the room with her which i assume you wasnt. Secondly she actually said she SAW Patrick killing Meredith. That she has to cover her ears to avoid Merediths screams..which is not how you put it at all.

As for the cartwheels i believe she did those while with her friends at the police station and not even being questioned so again im not sure how thats the police fault.
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No I wasn't in the room but I wish I had been there to hear it all for myself. Were any of the websleuthers there? No? Well then everyone is speculating based on whatever report they read. AK testified in court what the police said to her, to "imagine" what might have happened that night. I saw the video of her testimony. Did the police dispute it? I didn't see or hear anything where they said they didn't say that. So on that I'm going with her testimony in the courtroom. She also wrote about her interrogation, but let's just go with what she said in court.

As for her 'confession' there are like 2 or 3 different versions floating around. One version allegedly has her in the kitchen covering her ears to block out the screaming.

BTW, why did Guede insist during his first 3 or 4 interrogations that A.K. wasn't even in the house? He later changed his story as further interrogations got more aggressive. Why would he protect someone he didn't know?

DNA evidence proves Guede was in the house, and in the murder room. He left lots of evidence of him being there, being in the room, having sex with M.K. Was there evidence of A.K. in M.K.'s room? Any hair? Blood? Skin? Fibers? Footprints? Anything at all? I haven't heard of anything found in the murder room.

I don't know if AK was involved in the crime or not. I'm trying to piece together what evidence links her to the murder. It was a bloody, messy crime scene. 40+ wounds were found on MK's body. She fought hard for her life. I'm looking for the evidence.
 
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