19 TOM HANEY: 145.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: What is the pink thing?
21 TOM HANEY: We have next up, we have some
22 close-ups of the two items in 145, which is the white
23 blanket and the paint can. So if we take -- and if we
24 skip to the other numbered one and go to -- there is a
25 black and white dated 11 February of '97, and this is a
0382
1 photo in, I believe, a plastic container still, would
2 that be the blanket that was on the bed?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
4 TRIP DEMUTH: That is JonBenet's blanket on
5 her bed in her bedroom?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: I could say that, yes.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: Looking at picture 145.
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. What is this pink --
9 what is that?
10 TOM HANEY: We will show you a photo of that
11 in just a second. Just want to get through some of
12 these first of the blanket itself.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: This looks a little --
14 (inaudible).
15 TRIP DEMUTH: This was sent to CES, so every
16 piece of trace evidence that was ever collected by a
17 lab, so all of that is going to be documented. Our
18 main concern is that you believe this is JonBenet's
19 blanket on her bed.
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
21 TOM HANEY: This is the pink -- excuse me --
22 the pink item that again is in a plastic bag where the
23 photo was taken.
24 PATSY RAMSEY: That is her (inaudible). Why
25 was that there?
0383
1 TOM HANEY: What is it?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: It is her Barbie nightgown.
3 TOM HANEY: Is that hers or her Barbie
4 doll's? When would she have worn that last, do you
5 know?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, she didn't wear it that
7 night because she had her -- she had the long underwear
8 pants and her little white shirt. And the night before
9 on Christmas Eve night she wore the pink little
10 (inaudible) that was under her pillow. You saw that.
11 And before that I don't remember. But neither of those
12 two nights she wore that.
13 TOM HANEY: Where would this particular --
14 well, let me back up.
15 Does this item have some particular
16 significance?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No.
18 TOM HANEY: How many nightgowns did she have?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: A lot.
20 TOM HANEY: Twenty, 30?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, 10 or so.
22 TOM HANEY: Did this one have some particular
23 significance?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TOM HANEY: Do you remember who gave it to
0384
1 her?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TOM HANEY: Do you remember whether you got
4 it for her? Was it a gift.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, God, it might --
6 TOM HANEY: Take some time because this is --
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. Is this the only
8 picture we have of this?
9 TOM HANEY: Correct. The only one here
10 today.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm thinking of a Barbie
12 nightgown that had a big face of Barbie.
13 TRIP DEMUTH: It has a plastic over it, so
14 there is some glare there. You see the plastic.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah; right. What I'm saying,
16 I'm -- I remember a Barbie nightgown with a picture,
17 big picture of the head of Barbie on it. So I am not
18 quite sure this is her -- you know, one that she had.
19 TOM HANEY: Okay. You know, it appears --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: That is a Barbie doll under
21 there.
22 TOM HANEY: It appears from the waist down
23 you can see that much, but from the waist up, because
24 of the plastic, there is a flash and the reflection
25 that is washed out.
0385
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. The nightgowns were
2 kept in the bathroom, in her bathroom in the side
3 drawer there. Her pajamas were there.
4 TOM HANEY: All of them?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: Unless they were in the dirty
6 clothes.
7 TOM HANEY: We talked earlier about a few
8 things kind of thrown here or there.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. Could have been, I
10 guess.
11 TOM HANEY: Do you remember her wearing it on
12 the 23rd?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Which drawer, looking at photo
15 18?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: These.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: This is her bathroom, her sink.
18 Which drawer would the Barbie doll nightgown have been
19 kept in?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably that one or the one
21 below it.
22 TRIP DEMUTH: The one that is opened or below
23 it right there in photo 18?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
25 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
0386
1 TOM HANEY: We've heard at some point this
2 was a particularly favorite nightgown. Did she have
3 such a thing?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, her favorite little
5 pajamas were like -- was this one piece sort of Jeannie
6 thing my mother had given her, kind of nylon; a little
7 one piece thing. You stepped into it and put your arms
8 out. Other than that, nothing special.
9 TRIP DEMUTH: But would your sister, Pam,
10 call this her travel nightgown for any reason? I could
11 be wrong.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, like pageants did we
13 take one?
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Is there a reason she would say
15 that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I just don't remember making a
17 big deal about taking one special nightgown to the
18 pageants. I think more likely we took the little
19 Jeannie pant thing because it would be -- if she had
20 her hair in curlers, you could step into it instead of
21 pulling it over your head. I don't know.
22 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you know where that was
23 before Christmas?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TOM HANEY: It would not have been in the
0387
1 wine cellar?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
3 TOM HANEY: On the 25th when you put JonBenet
4 to bed, do you recall seeing this?
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TOM HANEY: In the bed.
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh.
8 TOM HANEY: Do you recall the blanket that is
9 in this previous --
10 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't. I don't really.
11 TOM HANEY: When you put her down, covered
12 her up.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I know I covered her at least
14 with the sheet, but I don't know that. We tend to get
15 real warm, so, you know, you don't do a lot of tucking
16 it in.
17 TOM HANEY: Probably not the comforter?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
19 TOM HANEY: But the cotton blanket, you know,
20 I think those are pretty -- it is kind of like the ones
21 in the hospital.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: They are not real heavy;
23 right.
24 TOM HANEY: So would that --
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. It would not have been
0388
1 unusual to put the sheet and the blanket on her. I
2 truly can't remember.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: Patsy, why the long underwear?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I remember I was digging
5 around for something. I was trying to find the pink
6 ones she wore the night before. I couldn't put my hand
7 on them right quick. And so I went to these drawers
8 looking for the pajamas, and she was just laying there,
9 so I didn't want to raise her up and get everything off
10 of her to put a long nightgown, so looking for pajamas
11 bottoms to put on her. I couldn't find any, and the
12 long underwear pants were in there drawer, so I got
13 those.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Could you have left that drawer
15 open yourself?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Possibly.
17 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
18 TOM HANEY: Did you have a particular stuffed
19 animal, blanket, toy, whatever, that she took to bed?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: She had a kitten we called
21 Sister Socks. It is a gray and white stuffed animal
22 that she liked the best.
23 TOM HANEY: Inseparable or she just liked --
24 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, not really inseparable,
25 but she liked that pretty much all the time.
0389
1 TOM HANEY: Some kids can't go to bed --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: No. She wasn't like that.
3 TOM HANEY: Okay. Without something,
4 somebody to talk to, somebody to keep them company.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
6 TOM HANEY: No, okay. Could this have been
7 under the pillow? Would you have noticed anything like
8 that?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't notice the pink
10 shirt under there, you know, so, I just don't remember
11 where that was or the last time she wore it.
12 TOM HANEY: Or where she got it, from whom?
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't remember.
14 TOM HANEY: Okay. Say on birthdays the kids
15 get a lot of presents, do you keep a list of who gets
16 them what to make sure they send them a thank-you card
17 or whatever?
18 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
19 TRIP DEMUTH: Do you think that is
20 JonBenet's?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, see, that is the thing.
22 If I could see it for real I would know.
23 TRIP DEMUTH: You are not sure at this time?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: I'm not really sure, no. The
25 one I'm thinking of had a big picture of Barbie on it,
0390
1 a face, a big face.
2 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: But she had a lot of them, so
4 you know, I just -- I just can't. If I could see it
5 for real, you know, I could touch it and touch it, but
6 look at it up close I might be able to.
7 Regardless, it is totally out of place down
8 there in the wine cellar.
9 TOM HANEY: The last time you were in the
10 wine cellar was Christmas Eve, Christmas day.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably Christmas Eve
12 bringing packages out.
13 TOM HANEY: Would there have been any reason
14 for you to go back in there on Christmas day or did you
15 go back in there?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No, I don't believe I did.
17 No.
18 TOM HANEY: Okay. And on Christmas Eve, when
19 you went in there --
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: -- this wasn't there?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
23 TOM HANEY: How about the blanket?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
25 TRIP DEMUTH: If we could go back, kind of
0391
1 skipped over a couple of pictures here, 145.
2 PATSY RAMSEY: There is the bicycle.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: I have a question for you, 148
4 here.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: These were gifts I think I was
6 holding back for Burke's birthday.
7 TRIP DEMUTH: They are in the red and white
8 and yellow FAO Schwartz wrapping?
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
10 TRIP DEMUTH: Now in 148 there is also this
11 white pocket, do you know what that is?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Huh-uh, it looks like cotton.
13 I don't know.
14 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. It is hard to sort of
15 figure out where all of these pictures are taken, but
16 there is another package over here.
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh.
18 TRIP DEMUTH: Does that look out of place or
19 in the proper place?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I had -- you know, I
21 stacked up some packages along there (inaudible).
22 Kicked (inaudible) or something. I kind of have it
23 backed up here.
24 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay. So the packages in 146,
25 it looks like it is out of place to you?
0392
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh. Yeah. See, that
2 looks -- the door would be here.
3 TRIP DEMUTH: It is hard.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: So that would be back in here
5 somewhere. I was right in front of the door.
6 TRIP DEMUTH: No. Here are the screens. You
7 see the screens over here, the small screens, so it is
8 more back in this.
9 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I would tuck them
10 there.
11 TRIP DEMUTH: I guess the point is, there
12 wasn't one that was off by itself. They should have
13 all been together.
14 The location in picture 148 is the correct
15 place for all of the packages to have been?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
17 TOM HANEY: Before we go on, could we just
18 talk briefly about the packages, these were presents
19 for whom, the ones that were left in there?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I believe for, you know, I
21 held some back for Burke's birthday which is in
22 January.
23 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
24 TOM HANEY: So that could have been that.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah. I don't remember what
0393
1 was in them.
2 TOM HANEY: Would any of these packages be
3 opened?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Probably. Well, see, these
5 came up, I was at FAO Schwartz in New York when
6 JonBenet and I were up there for a trip, and I had them
7 sent back to Boulder and they wrapped them, free gift
8 wrapping.
9 So like right here it looks like I kind of
10 peeled a little back to see what was in it because I
11 couldn't remember what was in them.
12 TRIP DEMUTH: If the wrapping has been undone
13 partially, that was --
14 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably would have done
15 that to peek to see what was in there.
16 TRIP DEMUTH: Okay.
17 TOM HANEY: Where did you do the bulk of your
18 Christmas shopping, the items you put in there?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, all of this stuff right
20 here was from FAO Schwartz in New York. JonBenet got a
21 bicycle that year. I got a university bicycle, and she
22 got a twin doll which I mail ordered, and --
23 TOM HANEY: Did she get to ride her bike?
24 PATSY RAMSEY: She got to ride her bike.
25 TOM HANEY: Christmas day?
0394
1 PATSY RAMSEY: Out in the back driveway.
2 TOM HANEY: You don't remember the weather
3 that day, was --
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Sunny, nice.
5 TOM HANEY: So did she get much time on it?
6 Was it training wheel equipped or was she able to ride
7 a two wheeler by herself?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think it had training
9 wheels. I think it did.
10 TOM HANEY: Did she get much time on it?
11 Could you give us a glue.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: No idea; riding out in the
13 back.
14 TOM HANEY: But she was able to handle it,
15 she didn't crash or anything?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TOM HANEY: Do you remember shopping before
18 Christmas, did you go with somebody?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Shopping?
20 TOM HANEY: Yeah.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Can't remember. I don't
22 remember what everybody got.
23 TOM HANEY: That was another one of the
24 questions.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Burke got Nintendo 64. That
0395
1 was a big deal. I got that down at some little
2 computer store kind of place down by Perilli's
3 (phonetic), Baseline and 30th or around there.
4 Gameworks. Got that right before Christmas.
5 TOM HANEY: Let's take it easy. What about,
6 do you guys put on a big production, are the presents
7 hidden?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
9 TOM HANEY: A lot of presents out?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
11 TOM HANEY: Big ones, we have the Nintendo
12 and a bike.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
14 TOM HANEY: How about for you, what did --
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I got a bicycle.
16 TOM HANEY: Okay. From John?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: From Santa Claus.
18 TOM HANEY: Do you remember anything else?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: JonBenet gave me a little
20 thing she made at school. I haven't been able to find
21 it yet. I hope I find it. It was a little thing that
22 said, the best Christmas present is me. There was a
23 little picture of her on it.
24 TOM HANEY: That is something that they made
25 at school, okay. Was it for you, for you and John
0396
1 or --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: She gave it to me.
3 TOM HANEY: Okay.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: She had one also, I think, for
5 John.
6 TRIP DEMUTH: JonBenet made that?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes. I haven't seen it.
8 TRIP DEMUTH: Does it have a picture of her
9 on it?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think (inaudible).
11 TOM HANEY: We might have that. We might.
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Really? Okay.
13 TOM HANEY: How about John, what did he get?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I made him a painting --
15 golf or whatever it is. He gave me a gold bracelet.
16 I had given JonBenet a little gold bracelet
17 the night of our Christmas party. It had her name
18 engraved on it Christmas day, but she was all dressed
19 up that night, and I gave her that. She got a lot of
20 craft making things, the little bead things you melt
21 together kind of, stuff from Toys R Us.
22 TOM HANEY: Did you shop with somebody, a
23 girlfriend or Priscilla or somebody, let's go Christmas
24 shopping?
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Not usually. I can get it
0397
1 done myself.