Found Deceased Canada - Mariam Makhniashvili, 17, Toronto, 14 Sept 2009 - #8

Tonight at 7 pm they are having Miriam's story on W5.

"Her grandmother in Georgia, Tsisana Aleksishvili, believed Mariam was at least initially thrilled with her new life.

"She was so happy going to Canada," she said. "When she called me from there she told me, Grandma, I'm so happy with my parents."

But Dr. Amy Cheung, a psychiatrist and specialist in teen depression at the Sunnybrook Health Sciences Centre in Toronto, pointed out that suicide is the second highest cause of death in teenagers and speculated there were factors in Mariam's life that might have caused depression.

"She's new to a country which is difficult for many people, she's travelled here without a lot of support, she doesn't understand the language and she's now living with parents who she hasn't had a close relationship with for many years."

Mariam's mother, Lela Tabidze, acknowledged her daughter had some problems adjusting, but all through the investigation she believed Mariam had been abducted.

"She would trust anyone," she said.



Read more: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20111118/mariam-makhniashvili-w5-investigation-11119/#ixzz1pO8WtOIk

dotr said:

The story of Mariam Makhniashvili - YouTube

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Is Lela looking at WS page in this video?

View attachment untitled.bmp

outcast said:

Is Lela looking at WS page in this video?

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I had just noticed the same Outcast - - this is the post Lela is looking at:

(Thread 5, page 7) Post # 138 : http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5032465&postcount=138

( 02:00 minute mark)

Questions linger on a teenager’s death

“[We’re] continuing to look, to see if there’s anything that can help us draw conclusions as to what actually occurred,” said Staff Inspector Greg McLane of the homicide squad, which has assisted with the investigation. “Now we know where she was, maybe somebody saw something. …There’s all kinds of investigative avenues we’re going to take to see if we can help get a better understanding of what actually took place.”

Initially, highway cameras that could have shown the teenager’s last few moments were thought to be an option. Although there is a camera nearby, footage is only kept for about a month, after which it is overwritten, a Ministry of Transportation spokeswoman said.

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But Ms. Abzhandadze said Ms. Makhniashvili was happy to be in Canada and to reunite with her parents, who had been living in the United States apart from their children. “She wanted to go there,” said Ms. Abzhandadze, who corresponded with her friend by e-mail. “She wasn’t depressed. She was such an optimistic girl and she wanted to study to become a good professional.”

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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/questions-linger-on-a-teenagers-death/article2372391/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2372391

What are your thoughts on the W5 show last night? A few things struck me:

1. Mariam did not attend any classes at FHCI that day.

2. The psychiatrist from Sunnybrook seemed to be leaning toward suicide in Mariam's case.

High schools can be very, very alienating and cliquey places. Especially the so-called 'higher class' ones. FHCI is a so-called 'higher class' school.

Poor, dear Mariam. It must have been horrible there for her. A stranger in a strange land......:rose:

W5 The Mariam Tragedy

http://watch.ctv.ca/news/w5/the-mariam-tragedy/#clip639594

No_Stone_Unturned said:

What are your thoughts on the W5 show last night? A few things struck me:

1. Mariam did not attend any classes at FHCI that day.

2. The psychiatrist from Sunnybrook seemed to be leaning toward suicide in Mariam's case.High schools can be very, very alienating and cliquey places. Especially the so-called 'higher class' ones. FHCI is a so-called 'higher class' school.

Poor, dear Mariam. It must have been horrible there for her. A stranger in a strange land......:rose:

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But still, there are unanswered questions: how did Mariam get to that overpass and why her backpack was left at Yonge/Eglinton? Also, why police is closing highway to investigate a week after post mortem?

outcast said:

But still, there are unanswered questions: how did Mariam get to that overpass and why her backpack was left at Yonge/Eglinton? Also, why police is closing highway to investigate a week after post mortem?

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1. Perhaps the backpack reminded Mariam of school and that reminder was a burden to her. No one seems to be able to pinpoint exactly where the backpack was left - under a tree, near a building.....many questions about the location of where it was found.

2. She quite possibly simply walked up to the overpass via a ramp.

3. The investigation - yes, that is puzzling.

:moo:

I am told that the first week or so at H.S,.most kids just keep eyes open for other kids they already know,but after that others get noticed and new bonds are formed.
Some people can attract others quickly with a musical talent or sense of humour and of course, looking "hot" scores points.
The advantage to being an " outsider" in a affluent area, is that the kids usually have been exposed to a wide variety of cultures and taught, ( especially in the Public schools) to be inclusive of all people.
If only dear Mariam had spent a few more months here, she certainly would have charmed others with her brains and shy beauty....

Quoted from dotr's post above:

but after that others get noticed and new bonds are formed.


In an ideal world, yes. But by the time kids reach Grade 11, the bonds are already formed, the cliques are in play, the decisions about 'who's cool and who's not' are in place. It's extremely difficult for someone new....who knows no one.....who cannot speak the latest "in" lingo....who perhaps doesn't wear the 'correct' clothing labels.....etc. to make friends.

Mariam had a very difficult task in front of her. In my experience, the female cliques are the most cruel ones.

:moo:

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ETA: Just look at the video of Mariam coming home from the Dragon Boat Races. Is she mingling with other Grade 11 girls? No, she's with her younger brother. That speaks volumes to me. Were other Grade 11 girls even trying to speak with her, help her, show her the way? No, not at all.......

Yup, it only takes one sensitive aware student to welcome in a new student despite what others think. For sure... Mariam would have had alot of good people in her life, how could she not? With a smile and disposition like she had? xx

I have mixed feelings about the discovery of Mariams remains. On one hand I'm grateful her family now knows what happened to their loved one, on the other it was not the outcome that everyone had hoped for and I'm deeply saddened as I'm sure many are. I'm not really sure that I buy into the suicide aspect at all. Had she wanted to commit suicide there are easier ways of doing it than jumping off a highway overpass after walking for more than an hour to get there. One that comes to mind in downtown Toronto is walking out in front of traffic at any given time, another is going to the subway station and walking out in front of the train. Or she could have simply walked out in front of a vehicle at the point they thinked she jumped.Where she was found is indicative of someone not wanting her to be found right away IMO. And she wasn't found right away. A suicidal person rarely cares where they'll be found much less who finds them. They are so caught up in their own pain. When the topic of suicide first came up in the days after finding the remains, my first thought was what if she was trying to get to the park and a transport struck her but then it was reported that she was alive when she went off the overpass. I wonder how they can arrive at that conclusion with any degree of certainty. I'm thinking that if she was alive when she went over that overpass then someone either threw her or pushed her. I don't believe for a minute she jumped. I'm hoping LE will get to the crux of the matter and not dismiss this as a suicide because Mariam deserves the truth to come out and to just chalk it off to her jumping when she might not have does her memory a grave injustice.
Does anyone wonder why her and her brother remained behind in Georgia for five years whilst the parents lived in LA? It would have been easier to go to the States as a family, much easier for the children to adapt to the English language when they were younger.I'm thinking that the parents wanted to protect the children, from what I'm not sure. I'm thinking whatever it was caught up with them in Canada. It's what caused her father to go over the edge and it's the reason Mariam is no longer with us.

In response to mauvelilac's post - I was wondering why the parents had the children come to Canada before they had finished their schooling. They were in safe hands in Georgia with loving family. Perhaps both children should have completed high school and then come to Canada for their higher learning.

:moo:

WELCOME TO THE FORUM, MAUVELILAC!

No_Stone_Unturned said:

In response to mauvelilac's post - I was wondering why the parents had the children come to Canada before they had finished their schooling. They were in safe hands in Georgia with loving family. Perhaps both children should have completed high school and then come to Canada for their higher learning.

:moo:

WELCOME TO THE FORUM, MAUVELILAC!

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Because they missed them terribly? The children were supposed to have joined them in North America long before this, but there were immigration glitches. Lela says in the W5 programme that at one point in their separation she was ready to give up and go back to Georgia to be with her kids, but found it impractical. She also said that until she and VM left, she had never before been separated from the kids. It must have been excruciating for a mother to have such a long physical absence from her children, even with daily phone conversations. The whole idea was for a better life here for all of them, especially the kids.

JMO

No_Stone_Unturned said:

Quoted from dotr's post above:

but after that others get noticed and new bonds are formed.


In an ideal world, yes. But by the time kids reach Grade 11, the bonds are already formed, the cliques are in play, the decisions about 'who's cool and who's not' are in place. It's extremely difficult for someone new....who knows no one.....who cannot speak the latest "in" lingo....who perhaps doesn't wear the 'correct' clothing labels.....etc. to make friends.

Mariam had a very difficult task in front of her. In my experience, the female cliques are the most cruel ones.

:moo:

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ETA: Just look at the video of Mariam coming home from the Dragon Boat Races. Is she mingling with other Grade 11 girls? No, she's with her younger brother. That speaks volumes to me. Were other Grade 11 girls even trying to speak with her, help her, show her the way? No, not at all.......

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(BBM)

Can you please provide a link to that video? The only one I recall is of Mariam and George on their way to the races. Even so, I believe any videos taken were from around the entrance/exit to the station, by which time the group would likely have separated.

Also, what Grade 11 girls? This group of volunteers was made up of new immigrants and sponsored by the YMCA. There may have been a few classmates of Mariam's in that bunch, but I had always assumed it consisted of a mixed gender/mixed school/mixed age group of newcomer students - ones who had probably never met before that day. I don't believe this was ever clarified - only that it was for new kids to the country and sponsored by the YMCA.

JMO

antiquegirl said:

(BBM)

Can you please provide a link to that video? The only one I recall is of Mariam and George on their way to the races. Even so, I believe any videos taken were from around the entrance/exit to the station, by which time the group would likely have separated.

Also, what Grade 11 girls? This group of volunteers was made up of new immigrants and sponsored by the YMCA. There may have been a few classmates of Mariam's in that bunch, but I had always assumed it consisted of a mixed gender/mixed school/mixed age group of newcomer students - ones who had probably never met before that day. I don't believe this was ever clarified - only that it was for new kids to the country and sponsored by the YMCA.

JMO

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OK, my huge mistake.

1. I was incorrect when I said from the races - I suppose it was to the races.

2. Forgive me for thinking it was a school trip - again, my mistake.

3. I didn't know about the YMCA thing - again, my mistake.

Now after all of these mistakes of mine - it's almost worse if the boat races was a trip organised in order to help welcome newcomers. Shouldn't there have been more Canadian volunteers to assist the newcomers, talk to them, make them feel welcome and not leave them alone with only family members to speak with - no doubt, in their own native tongue.

Gee, I hope I soon stop making all these errors!! :blushing:

(I'm not a reporter who has been in touch with Mariam's family/mother. I'm a person who works with young offenders. My knowledge of this case is - obviously - not terrifically good!) :blushing:

antiquegirl said:

Because they missed them terribly? The children were supposed to have joined them in North America long before this, but there were immigration glitches. Lela says in the W5 programme that at one point in their separation she was ready to give up and go back to Georgia to be with her kids, but found it impractical. She also said that until she and VM left, she had never before been separated from the kids. It must have been excruciating for a mother to have such a long physical absence from her children, even with daily phone conversations. The whole idea was for a better life here for all of them, especially the kids.

JMO

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Yes, I did watch the W5 programme and I heard Lela say that. Perhaps parents would be wise to put the kids first and put aside the parents' desire to have the children be with them.

I work extensively with troubled/disturbed kids (age 7 - 17) and I see problems all the time. Problems which the children often don't articulate to the parents.

I must ask myself if Mariam truly, really, honestly wanted to leave her homeland and come to Canada. Or, did she say she was happy in order to avoid displeasing her parents?