17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #18

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katydid23 said:
This 'new' witness seems to make this long argument begin earlier than we hear on the 911 calls. People do not call 911 at the moment the argument begins. It goes on for awhile before anyone calls. So we only hear THE END of the struggling/wrestling. According to her the arguing goes on for awhile, loudly.
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This is where it gets so confusing to me.

First, we hear that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman from behind. Cool!

Second we hear that Trayvon asks Zimmerman "Why are you following me?" and Zimmerman replies "What are you doing here?" Then Trayvon, for no reason at all, attacks Zimmerman.

Third, we hear that Trayvon asks Zimmerman "What's your *advertiser censored**ing problem" and George replies "Nothing. I don't have a problem." Trayvon replies again "Well you do NOW!!" and viciously attacks Zimmerman, for no reason at all.

The longest, according to Zimmerman's side, the "verbal exchange" lasted was three sentences... with Trayvon being the aggressor in all of them.

So it doesn't match with ear witnesses accounts of hearing a longer verbal exchange? Meaning... there was more said between TM and GZ, imo, before the confrontation became physical?

MOO
 
mdana said:
Her statements are contradictory and actually give credence to GZ calling the police, because it was apparently odd to be walking in the neighborhood. From the CNN article page 1.

"I thought it was rather loud, but I had just shut my window because it had just started pouring out rain," the witness said. "And then I thought, 'Oh, my gosh, who's out there walking their dog in the rain?'



...

The witness recounted seeing two men on the grass, one on top of the other. "And at that point, not looking out the window, I heard the yell for help, one yell for help, and then I heard another ... excruciating type of yell. It didn't almost sound like 'help.' It just sounded so painful. But I wasn't watching out the window during that. And then the next time I looked out the window, there's the same thing: two men on the grass, one on top of each other. I couldn't see a lot of movement. It was very dark, but I felt like they were scuffling. And then I heard the gunshots, which, to me, were more like pops than they were like a bang."

The witness recalled hearing more than one shot. "It definitely was more than one pop noise, so I don't know if it was an echo or anything else. But it definitely made more than one pop."

The witness said the shots were audible as one man was on top of the other. But the witness recalled not having been able to see clearly which man was on top because it was dark.


http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-29/...hooting_1_witness-voices-window?_s=PM:JUSTICE

I do not understand how this can be considered a clear witness statement since she did not witness the start of the altercation, and she was unable to see clearly due to the rain and darkness. I believe this is the same woman that AB interviewed on AC 360 tonight. She is now contradicting herself and statinging it was GZ that was on top.
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Thank you for the link. It appears that this witness was on AC360 last week and Ashleigh Banfield says that their bringing her back and she has a lot more to say this week. The only thing that I see that's been added is that she say's the larger man was on top and she see's the larger man get up. I'm not sure why she didn't say that before and I'm not sure who the "larger man" is that she's describing. I see no other description of who was who other than "larger man". That's a bit vague to me. JMO.
 
mdana said:
The witness said the shots were audible as one man was on top of the other. But the witness recalled not having been able to see clearly which man was on top because it was dark.[/I]
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I wonder if is the older woman who kept the 911 operator on the phone forever. She seemed very scared and I felt sorry for her. If this is the same woman, she didn't see much at all. JMO

Thanks for posting this.
 
Concerned Papa said:
There's a couple of other points that reinforce this "new" body location actually being right in front of this witness's home.

Out of this entire big development, somehow the first responder, Officer Timothy Smith, knew exactly where to park his squad car in order to walk directly between the ends of those buildings and to the body.

To further confirm the location of the body as being behind this witnesses residence, NOTICE THE ADDRESS shown as the incident address on the SPD report!
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I have to disagree on this one, with the magical moving body.

It just doesn't match with Tracy Martin's telling of where the police told him the body was, and it doesn't match with the information and photos gleaned by MarinadeDave when he visited the location and actually talked to people who lived there.
 
TonyGatto said:
So this "new" location is further south than first thought, just south of the cutout, right? Do you think where the squad car is is where GZ's vehicle was parked, and that's what led the cops to go there?
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I may have confused the issue by having the map posted with south up and north down, LOL.

This is the more standard view for most maps with north being at the top. I have also added the location for GZ's car as described by his father in the Sean Hannity interview posted earlier.
 

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itsreenw said:
And this IMO,is the whole problem. Why would he appear suspicious? Why does it matter how long Trayvon took to get to/from the store, at what pace he was walking, or why he was outside in the rain.

GZ didn't tell dispatch TM was trying to peer in windows, rattle car door handles, go up to anyone's front door. Nothing indicated he was breaking a law. GZ said TM was walking, looking at all the houses. Did GZ think he should be the only one allowed to roam the complex?

Trayvon should not have to account for doing what we all, as Americans, have the right to do. Live. Without being followed. Without being questioned for no reason. Without being shot dead at 17.

An individual should not have to defend his actions when they are minding their own business, taking a leisurely stroll, maybe staying outside while on the phone for better phone reception or maybe he just wanted some fresh air.
He did nothing that suggested he was going to commit a crime.
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Thank you for your post. These are my sentiments exactly.



~jmo~
 
vlpate said:
I wonder if is the older woman who kept the 911 operator on the phone forever. She seemed very scared and I felt sorry for her. If this is the same woman, she didn't see much at all. JMO

Thanks for posting this.
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This is whom I believe it to be as well. She was very distraught and it did not seem like she had anyone that she could call.

I felt that the dispatcher was concerned for her and worried for her healthwise.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
See, Zimmerman seems to exaggerate certain things (I've noticed). It seems that Trayvon had no other option but to walk towards George in order to get home and that turns into "He's walking right towards me now. Yeah, yeah, he's checking me out now." ***not verbatim***

According to Trayvon's girlfriend, Trayvon was not going to run, but walk fast.

We have no idea where Trayvon was when Zimmerman jumped out of the car, but it wasn't until after he had already jumped out of the car that he states he doesn't see Trayvon anymore.

MOO
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That entire 911 call reads like a script for a self defense claim. It's practically perfect.

1. Establish backstory: "We've had some break-ins.."

2. Identify bad guy: "He's up to no good, he's on drugs or something, definately messed up"

3. Establish Concerns: "He's staring at me"

4. Elevate Concerns: "He's coming towards me"

5. Establish DANGER: "He's got his hand in his waistband!"

6. Elevate DANGER: "Something is wrong with him! He's coming to check me out! He's got something in his hand! How long until an officer gets here?"

The only problem with this is that it seems likely, to me, that none of it actually happened. In this 911 call Zimmerman is trying to paint this kid as a menacing gun packing gangbanger, and himself as a calm law abiding guardian of the community forced to take him down. And whether the kid is armed or not, it's right there on the 911 tape that Zimmerman had probably cause to think he was.

And, in my opinion, Zimmerman knew it -- he knew exactly what he was saying. He had a gun and in my opinion he really wanted to use it.

The question to ask is this: does ANY of this sound plausible given what we know of Trayvon's following actions (running away, expressing his concerns to his girlfriend, etc)? Did Trayvon REALLY go strutting towards Zimmerman, hand in his waistband like a gangbanger was packing heat, or was this just a set up?

JMO MOO etc
 
TonyGatto said:
I don't understand SYG. Let's say a husband kills his wife in their home and then calls 911. Cops get there and the husband says she attacked me and I feared for my life. There are no witnesses and nothing that disproves his claim. He doesn't get arrested?
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Seems so.
 
If the two argued loudly for awhile , why are we only hearing about four sentences of the exchange?
 
The exact address is on the ambulance audio that was recently released. I would link but I am on my phone...
 
angelmom said:
Add Mr. T to the list of people who should STOP HELPING George. FGS, what is a "Trayvon-like dude"???
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I don't know why he didn't just say what he meant...Young, minority and dressed just like 10 million other teens that are wearing the latest trend in clothes.

None of those things should be a reason to be considered suspicious without some type of action suggesting you are going to break a law.
 
katydid23 said:
I am not sure why people are saying the loud argument proves that nobody was blindsided. Couldn't one of them hit or grabbed or punched the other, and then they begin yelling at each other as they continue the struggle?
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IMO?

Not a chance. People who are fighting don't usually spend a lot of time arguing, talking, or even screaming. Mostly because they can't -- fighting takes a lot of energy. Arguing is what happens before a fight, screaming comes after.

I suspect when GZ found Trayvon they exchanged a couple words, then Trayvon tried to dodge past him and Zimmerman tackled him (which is why they were off the walk). I think it was at that point that the argument started. And argument that probably rapidly devolved into begging for mercy once Zimmerman got his gun out.

In my opinion this entire thing looks terrible for everyone involved. I think the police need to release the autopsy report AND the photos of Zimmerman's injuries, assuming they exist.
 
LolaMoon08 said:
IF, and a big IF, it comes out that there was some kind of cover-up, could those who were in on it (officers, etc...) be charged with Accessory After the Fact?
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I would assume so. Civil rights violations as well.
 
Here is one source for the ambulance audio:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrKBO9n0Yck"]Trayvon Martin Ambulance Audio Recording - YouTube[/ame]
 
mikeysmommom said:
I am sure the police have all they needed to come to the decision to not arrest GZ.In all likelihood he will not be arrested IMO.
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I think the reason for the outrage is that they did not. The girlfriends statement, voice analysis, tox reports, etc. were not factors in the decision... JMO IMO
 
mikeysmommom said:
I am sure the police have all they needed to come to the decision to not arrest GZ.In all likelihood he will not be arrested IMO.
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Sadly, even if they did arrest him, I believe the police screwed this up so badly (and in my opinion, so deliberately) that he will walk out of jail and into a book deal. < mod snip. >

In my opinion of course.
 
mikeysmommom said:
I am sure the police have all they needed to come to the decision to not arrest GZ.In all likelihood he will not be arrested IMO.
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From what information we have on this site it appears likely that he will be arrested to me, but then we are not privy to everything, and I will quietly abide by whatever the decision is. May lady justice be sweet and fair to all concerned.
 
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